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Fail Mary Effects

R0b1Billion
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1/1/2013 2:03:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Kevin Siefert, ESPN:
"
The play, which the NFL later said should have been nullified by an offensive pass interference call on Tate, hastened a labor agreement with permanent officials but left the Packers victimized by the league's decision to bypass the integrity of the game in the name of economics.
"

I couldn't have said it any better :)

When this issue was brought to the higher NFL authorities, a decision was to be made as to how to handle the fallout from this debacle. Decision A, letting the Seahawks win despite hard evidence to the contrary, would cause damage to a single franchise, but leave all other 31 franchises relatively unscathed. It was democratically viable solution in a certain sense, putting the league above the team.

Decision B was to overturn the decision and mar the smooth face of the game. There have been other blemishes that couldn't be authoritatively controlled (e.g., lock-outs, physical/psychological health concerns, morality, etc.), but this was one that could be. This was a situation that could be "handled."

Assuming that electronic replay is the mode of decision regarding plays in any NFL game, we must interpret replay as honestly as possible. There was no reasonable explanation, other than perhaps utter hysteria at a stadium full of people who were about to rush the field over one more botched call, that an even slightly football-acknowledged, mildly retarded individual would see Tate heave another player aside, jump up and get two hands on a ball that had been caught for a moment, and fail to get the ball away from the other players chest throughout the duration of the call. The amazed look on the other officials face as the ref made the call was bewildering, and you have to even wonder if the dipsh!t refs didn't just let a fan put on a ref costume and jump on the field to make the call without being noticed...

tbc...
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
R0b1Billion
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1/1/2013 3:29:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
To conclude, my point is that in order to fix this problem, the NFL would have had to humble themselves and admit they made a mistake. But they won't. The NFL's pride is on the line here and that is more important than even the quality of the product of their labors. I hope that, for the integrity of the league, the Packers aren't eliminated next week in a game in which they had actually earned the bye.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
airmax1227
Posts: 13,228
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1/1/2013 3:40:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I was as upset about that loss as anyone...

But the packers should have beaten the Colts... and they still controlled their destiny against the Vikings...

The fail mary game gave the Packers 1 loss they shouldn't have had, but they still could have overcome it and gotten the #2 seed.

..So I don't think the league should do anything.
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airmax1227
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1/1/2013 3:43:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The league also did kind of admit they were wrong (to the extent that they ever will) as the ref strike ended after that... I don't think it'd be wise for them to ever change the outcome of games after the fact. It was a failure, but it in itself did not decide the Packers season.

Also, Go Badgers!!!
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R0b1Billion
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1/1/2013 5:15:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/1/2013 3:40:34 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
I was as upset about that loss as anyone...

But the packers should have beaten the Colts...

Why? the Colts are one of the AFC's best teams. What does that have anything to do with Fail Mary?

and they still controlled their destiny against the Vikings...

So they deserved to get a bye only if they won 13 or 14 games? Why?

The fail mary game gave the Packers 1 loss they shouldn't have had, but they still could have overcome it and gotten the #2 seed.

..So I don't think the league should do anything.

So the league should only step in when and if the Packers are ready to be eliminated...

At 1/1/2013 3:43:44 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
The league also did kind of admit they were wrong (to the extent that they ever will) as the ref strike ended after that... I don't think it'd be wise for them to ever change the outcome of games after the fact. It was a failure, but it in itself did not decide the Packers season.

Paterno had his championships stripped YEARS after the fact for things that weren't even remotely to do with his teams' performance. It's not the NFL per se, but I don't see a big line between the two - both are based upon simple games.

It would be unprecedented if an NFL game was changed after the fact, but what major line are we crossing by doing it? Sure, it should be minimized, but in extreme circumstances like this, where and overwhelmingly bad decision is made which COMPLETELY decides a game, it should be seen as better than knowingly endorsing a decision we know is wrong. I would ask: just how bad of a decision by the officials needs to be made, with video evidence to damn it, in order to warrant this type of action? If the Super Bowl is decided by a field goal which goes through the uprights and the refs call it wide, are we going to let the decision stand?
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
airmax1227
Posts: 13,228
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1/1/2013 6:01:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/1/2013 5:15:03 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 1/1/2013 3:40:34 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
I was as upset about that loss as anyone...

But the packers should have beaten the Colts...

Why? the Colts are one of the AFC's best teams. What does that have anything to do with Fail Mary?

The Packers put themselves in a position where one bad call could lose them the game, and one lost game could cost them the #2 seed. You could point to a number of things well within their control that would have prevented them from losing the Seahawks game, and falling behind the 9ers for the #2 seed.

Those things would include allowing the Seahawks to be a hail mary TD away from pulling off a miracle in that game. Or for losing games they should have won.

Yes the fail mary play was a failure on the part of the replacement refs and a failure by the NFL in the larger scheme. But the Packers didn't fail to get the #2 seed just because of that, or even mainly due to that. They lost games they should have won and don't deserve it if their argument is only that they got robbed by the league.

and they still controlled their destiny against the Vikings...

So they deserved to get a bye only if they won 13 or 14 games? Why?


Because that's the way the math came out. They only deserve a bye if they were one of the top 2 teams based on win-loss record. The Falcons and the 9ers have a better record.

The fail mary game gave the Packers 1 loss they shouldn't have had, but they still could have overcome it and gotten the #2 seed.

..So I don't think the league should do anything.

So the league should only step in when and if the Packers are ready to be eliminated...

Not necessarily... I'm not sure I can imagine any scenario where the league should ever step in. As upset as I'll be the Packers lose a playoff game because of a bad call, it's part of the game.

At 1/1/2013 3:43:44 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
The league also did kind of admit they were wrong (to the extent that they ever will) as the ref strike ended after that... I don't think it'd be wise for them to ever change the outcome of games after the fact. It was a failure, but it in itself did not decide the Packers season.

Paterno had his championships stripped YEARS after the fact for things that weren't even remotely to do with his teams' performance. It's not the NFL per se, but I don't see a big line between the two - both are based upon simple games.


Apples and oranges. The Fail Mary game and the Joe Paterno issue aren't comparable. We'd have to find a game that was changed because of a bad call to make it anywhere close to similar circumstances. Also the NCAA and the NFL don't operate anywhere close to the same way. There is a significant enough difference between college and the pros.

It would be unprecedented if an NFL game was changed after the fact, but what major line are we crossing by doing it? Sure, it should be minimized, but in extreme circumstances like this, where and overwhelmingly bad decision is made which COMPLETELY decides a game, it should be seen as better than knowingly endorsing a decision we know is wrong. I would ask: just how bad of a decision by the officials needs to be made, with video evidence to damn it, in order to warrant this type of action? If the Super Bowl is decided by a field goal which goes through the uprights and the refs call it wide, are we going to let the decision stand?

It may eventually be worthwhile to overturn a game but I'll have to evaluate that at the time. I can say that I don't think it has been worthwhile yet and there are plenty of examples that are more worthwhile than the Fail Mary game.

The 02-03 Wild card game - Giants vs. 49ers. The 9ers made up a 24 point deficit to win that game (A record btw). The Giants got into field goal range at the end of the game with a chance to win. A botched snap on the field goals forced holder Matt Allen to chuck the ball down the field to a wide open OG Rich Seubert who was tackled long before the ball got there.

It was an obvious pass interference call that the refs mistakenly called "illegal man down field" and ended the game, giving the win to the 9ers.

This was a far greater mistake, and far more costly to the team on the losing end.

The NFL essentially said "oops" and that was it.

I think it was the 99 wild card game, Packers against the 9ers where Jerry Rice fumbled the ball a few plays before a stumbling Steve Young threaded the needle between 3 defenders to hit Terrell Owens for the game winning TD.

I don't think anyone even acknowledged that blunder. In fact it's a classic game that the Packers shouldn't have been in a position to lose like that if they were unarguably the superior team.

SuperBowl 40 is a bit notorious for the bad calls that went against the Seahawks.

The immaculate reception.

I don't think any of these should be overturned because they are controversial and arguably "wrong". Once a game is over that's it. It makes the game more interesting and infuriating sometimes, but it makes it that much more compelling in the end.

If a Superbowl ends on a botched FG call, let me know, and I'll join in on getting that call changed. I don't see that happening, and if the 50 cameras aren't enough to make sure that call is made correctly, the game doesn't deserve to continue existing. There is no reasonable scenario of a blown call worth over-turning the game that I can think of.

Busted calls seem pretty rare though. While I'm upset about the Fail Mary call going against my team, I'm more upset that the Packers lost a 21 point lead against the Colts. More upset that they let the Vikings get into FG range at the end of the last game. More upset that they lost to the 9ers on opening week, and more upset that they got blown out by the Giants.

Yeah the Fail Mary was one contributing factor to them not getting a bye, but they did a lot more to themselves that earned them the #3 spot instead.

In the greater picture, like I said earlier, I can't imagine any reasonable scenario in which a game should be overturned, and certainly not this one.
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Chicken
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1/1/2013 6:32:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The Packer's Fail Mary situation left Mcarthy and Rodgers beyond Pissed off, the poor Texans felt the heat the next week.
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airmax1227
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1/1/2013 6:38:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/1/2013 6:32:08 PM, Chicken wrote:
The Packer's Fail Mary situation left Mcarthy and Rodgers beyond Pissed off, the poor Texans felt the heat the next week.

Indeed. Hopefully they are angry about being the #3 seed as well and maintain that anger all the way through the playoffs.
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Ore_Ele
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1/1/2013 11:36:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
tl:dr version

The league should change games that effect the teams that Rob really likes.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
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1/1/2013 11:37:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/1/2013 6:38:51 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 1/1/2013 6:32:08 PM, Chicken wrote:
The Packer's Fail Mary situation left Mcarthy and Rodgers beyond Pissed off, the poor Texans felt the heat the next week.

Indeed. Hopefully they are angry about being the #3 seed as well and maintain that anger all the way through the playoffs.

And if they don't, we'll get another thread just like this.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
R0b1Billion
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1/2/2013 11:03:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
http://www.google.com...
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,720
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1/6/2013 12:39:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hallelujah Fail Mary is dead. Praise Jesus!
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
Danielle
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1/7/2013 9:19:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/1/2013 11:36:45 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
tl:dr version

The league should change games that effect the teams that Rob really likes.

Haha, this. Sorry Rob but there have blown calls in so0o0o0o many games, and that one was arguably close - MUCH closer than other blown calls that have decided games in the past. I also agree with Chicken and Airmax. That inspired the Pack to play better the following week, and they have overcome it to make the playoffs. The Patriots also lost a few games by a FG or less, so started out the season pretty badly on paper, yet overcame it to get the #2 seed. Similarly the Giants lost a few games by just 1--3 points, but they weren't able to step it up and rightfully don't deserve to be in the playoffs. I think a lot of times, including this instance, things work themselves out.
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