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Redskins name debate

SCHUMAN8R
Posts: 42
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11/6/2013 4:24:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I have recently heard in the news the redskins football team may be forced to change their name because it is somehow racist. I am a Native American and I do not see how this could offend anyone. The name isn't saying anything bad about Natives yet some are calling it offensive?

What are your thoughts?
Can't touch this!
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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11/6/2013 6:39:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
http://www.bluecorncomics.com...

There's a better comic than this that I can't find right now (depicting stereotypes like the Brooklyn Jews, etc.). The thing is that most team names represent of signify strength or something related to athletics or superiority or whatever. Names like the Kansas City Chiefs aren't scrutinized because that is a thing of honor (or represents bravery). However "Red Skin" is just a derogatory slur that references color, sort of like calling a black person "colored" which is not considered PC.

Personally, I don't think people should be offended by terms like this. However, since it's such a big deal, I would just say to change the name. It's not like "Red Skins" is such an awesome team name that you need to fight that hard for it. Teams switch cities all the time; you can switch the name. The Washington Warriors is much cooler. Or, my personal favorite suggestion: Keep the nickname and just call it The Washington Skins. "The logo would be a variety of colors representing all peoples and the words to 'Hail to the Redskins' could easily be modified."
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Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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11/6/2013 11:42:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Okay, now on a serious note. The name should not be changed. The team, its owners, players, fans, and local community have used the name for absolutely nothing but positivity. While the word has been used negatively in the past, it is important for our growth, as a society and nation, to take back the word from its negative meanings and give it something positive. Words only have the meaning that we give them and we need to give it a new meaning.

Let it be the next pink triangle. For those that are not aware, the Pink Triangle was originally used by the Nazi to mark and identify homosexual prisoners. It was used by one of the most hate filled groups to direct and organize their hate to be more efficient. The gay community has since taken the symbol and made it their own. They have erased the negative and hateful meanings of the symbol from the past (of just decades ago) and given it a new positive meaning as a symbol for gay pride and gay rights. It is important to stop trying to play victim for attention and instead take up pride. This is what we should do for redskins to help move past that other part of our history.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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11/7/2013 6:34:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Here's a better cartoon, though not the one I was looking for.

http://media.cagle.com...

I largely agree with you OreEle, though I think something to keep in mind (as depicted by the cartoon) is that most people would not expect other groups in society to just "accept" the name and "reclaim it as their own." The N word is so controversial that we can't even say it-- we have to refer to it by letter because it's so polarizing. Similarly a sports team name like the Fresno Fagg0ts or San Juan Spics or Charlotte Coons would NOT be accepted by society at large... so why impose this on Native Americans who are offended? The LGBT community voluntarily took a symbol back and evolved its meaning, but we don't see the same thing of the Jews changing the meaning of the swastika. Yes, I agree that "offended" groups should show that there is nothing inherent to the alleged insult as a way to negate the insult (it's kind of like why I don't care being called a dyke-- yes, I am a lesbian, which is what dyke means... what's the implied insult? That I fvck hot girls? Pcha - yeah, I'm a dyke). However considering we show concern and care about protecting a bunch of other groups in society, I think to undermine or disregard Native Americans is just unnecessary. PLUS, the franchise would make more money (through selling all new merch) if they changed their name, so meh, they might as well.
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Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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11/7/2013 8:33:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
One difference between the pictures is that those other examples had racist pictures to go along with in an attempt to bolster the racist apparence. Unless you think the Redskin's symbol is also racist, I don't think those are fair comparisons. Though I'm sure yo are familiar with the history of the word Yankee as another example of taking back derogatory terms.

I do understand, though, that the biggest step is that it is the offended group has to take back the name, not someone completely unrelated having to take it back for them. However (just like it was homosexuals that took back the pink triangle), polls of Native Americans are ridiculously one sided on the matter.

Nationally, 79% of Native Americans don't mind the name. While 90% in Virginia (which is kinda a local area) don't mind (at least back in 2004 they didn't). While Native Americans aren't exactly trying to create a new positive meaning for the word, they have, mostly simply rejected and stopped caring about it. What we are hearing is a very loud, very small minority that is wanting to play the victim card and trying to stir up emotion on something that should be allowed to move on.

http://www.timesdispatch.com...
http://washington.cbslocal.com...
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
shamdoctor
Posts: 6
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11/19/2013 1:00:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The name has gotta go. It's been around for long enough. I have wondered for years how the name has lasted as long as it has. Sure, there may not be intentional malice with the name, but if the name hurts even one person, it needs to go. And it does.
Kc.Nycolle
Posts: 1
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12/11/2013 7:58:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
The redskins were protested because the name is a racial slur against native Americans, rather like the "N word" is a racial slur against African American people. The name was not meant to offend anyone, but at one point in time Washington state was full of Native American tribes. So that is how they got their name. Forcing them to change their name is like saying the Cowboys or the Vikings need to change their name because they are mocking people who have ancestors that are cowboys or vikings. It is just a bunch of people complaining. Many native Americans, including my family who are Cherokee natives, are not offended by this name so I say they should be allowed to keep it.
Sooner
Posts: 1,012
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8/10/2015 12:37:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/6/2013 4:24:23 PM, SCHUMAN8R wrote:
I have recently heard in the news the redskins football team may be forced to change their name because it is somehow racist. I am a Native American and I do not see how this could offend anyone. The name isn't saying anything bad about Natives yet some are calling it offensive?

What are your thoughts?

People need something to bit*h about. Here's them a petty issue to embarass themselves with.
Ignoring problems doesn't make them go away.
Hawlucha
Posts: 20
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9/8/2015 5:27:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Bet if the name was Washington Blackfaces the name would've been changed the moment Barack Obama took office.

Native Americans are easily thrown under the bus by the government. It's a shame, really.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,732
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9/8/2015 10:47:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/8/2015 5:27:49 PM, Hawlucha wrote:
Bet if the name was Washington Blackfaces the name would've been changed the moment Barack Obama took office.

I've never heard of coal miners needing PC protection. And your comment about Obama was crude, showing you are posting only out of hatred and not because you have something intelligent to say.

Native Americans are easily thrown under the bus by the government. It's a shame, really.

Well the fact that our government slaughtered them a century ago is worth mentioning, but to be fair, nobody who was part of that is alive today and I think the general consensus among the tribes is that they want part of the wealth just as much as any other group (i.e., they choose willingly to participate in this economy as opposed to wanting to go back to living in teepees and such). I have a hard time believing they are being thrown under a bus, they get their own land as well as loopholes in laws that give them an unfair advantage in the market. Ever hear of a per-cap check?
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
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Agent_Orange
Posts: 2,252
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9/10/2015 1:37:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
This is such a stupid debate. If you wouldn't go to a native American and call them a redskin, don't say its OK to have a team named the Redskins. You KNOW its offensive. Don't be a dick about it
#BlackLivesMatter
Hawlucha
Posts: 20
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9/12/2015 12:45:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/10/2015 1:37:10 AM, Agent_Orange wrote:
This is such a stupid debate. If you wouldn't go to a native American and call them a redskin, don't say its OK to have a team named the Redskins. You KNOW its offensive. Don't be a dick about it

Except Native Americans have been swept under the rug so offending them is easy because they lack any political power or racial influence compared to blacks.

Insulting blacks = race crime up to 5 years

Insulting natives = $1,000,000,000 handegg team

At 9/10/2015 1:39:26 AM, Agent_Orange wrote:
Honestly change it to the Washington Indians and you don't even have to change the logo

Indians are people from south-east Asia, not from America.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,732
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9/18/2015 1:39:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/10/2015 1:37:10 AM, Agent_Orange wrote:
This is such a stupid debate. If you wouldn't go to a native American and call them a redskin, don't say its OK to have a team named the Redskins. You KNOW its offensive. Don't be a dick about it

I disagree, I think referring to somebody's skin color is rather objective compared to other race-based adjectives. Calling blacks "African-American," for instance, is foolish, since the vast majority of them have never been to Africa or even know anyone who has ever been there. Calling people "red-skinned" is much more accurate than "Indian" (they aren't from India) or "Native" (they aren't any more native than you or I since we were born here and are hence native-American in our own right). I don't personally believe in any biological basis for race and I don't recognize any significance of distant ancestors coming from other parts of the world, so the only rational means of describing people (if you really wish to do so) is based on the color of their skin. Barack Obama is NOT an African-American, he is a dark-skinned person. If a person from Africa comes to the US then they have EARNED the title "African-American" for very logical reasons I won't bother expounding here. I am NOT an Irish/Portugese/French/English-American just because distant ancestors of mine came from there centuries ago, I am a light-skinned American and that's about it. I am not offended by the term "Whiteskins" and if somebody named a football team that I certainly would have no basis for getting offended.

As to your point about me not going up to a red-skinned person and calling them a Redskin, all I have to say is that being offended is not a rational basis for anything. I wouldn't call them that simply because there's much more to being a person than skin hue and that identification is rather simplistic and meaningless. Football is rather simplistic and meaningless so it stands to reason that such terminology is going to crop up.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.