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More pressure on which QB?

birdlandmemories
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1/15/2014 9:22:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/15/2014 5:07:57 PM, Koopin wrote:
Tom or Manning?

Wilson or Kaepernick?

Manning has way more pressure. With the Broncos being a no 1 seed, they are expected to make the Super Bowl.

I'd also say Wilson has more pessure than Caepernick, for the same reasons Manning has more pressure on him that Brady.
Ashton
Ore_Ele
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1/15/2014 11:28:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/15/2014 5:07:57 PM, Koopin wrote:
Tom or Manning?

Wilson or Kaepernick?

Manning Definitely over Brady. Since Manning is the favorite (a 5 point favorite according to Vegas), he only has room to lose. And since Brady is already well established for post season records (while Manning is established to regular season and personal records), a PS loss does not impact how the world views him. Manning has the "post season choke artist" image that he needs to shake.

For Wilson and Kaep? It's probably mostly equal. A little more to Wilson for being the #1 seed, but both teams are defense and run based, so a "win" or "loss" is more against the team, than the individual. This is more to do with the rivalry and bragging rights, which matter to both.
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Koopin
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1/16/2014 11:24:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'm going with more pressure on Manning for obvious reasons.

For some reason I feel like Kaeper has more pressure on himself.
kfc
Koopin
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1/16/2014 11:26:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/15/2014 11:28:10 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:

PS loss does not impact how the world views him. Manning has the "post season choke artist" image that he needs to shake.

I have become less confident the Patriots have a good chance of winning after listening to these dumb analysis fools. But my one hope on the other side of the field. If the Patriots are going to win, Manning has to help.
kfc
R0b1Billion
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1/16/2014 6:31:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Kaepernick and Wilson are not overly productive quarterbacks, it's likely the defense and run game that are going to control those games. Brady's being hailed as a hero just for getting this far with how unfortunate his team's situation has been thus far (injuries), so nobody is going to blame him for losing.

This could be Manning's last game. He's got more weapons than any quarterback could dream of, and as you said before, his productivity has not really lived up to his legacy. The Lombardi Trophy is his to lose, and if he doesn't win it, it will almost certainly be because he didn't realize his potential. With Erick Decker, Wes Welker, and Demaryieous Thomas to throw to (with a decent-enough defense), he BETTER not screw this up. History seems to indicate that these two NFC teams don't have the quarterback play to get the job done. I can't see Kaepernick's or Wilson's name on top of this list:

2012: Flacco
2011: E Manning
2010: Rodgers
2009: Brees
2008: Roethlesburger
2007: E Manning
2006: P Manning
2005: Roethlesburger
2004: Brady
2003: Brady
2002: Brad Johnson
2001: Brady
2000: Trent Dilfer
1999: Kurt Warner
1998: Elway
1997: Elway
1996: Favre
1995: Aikman
1994: Young
1993: Aikman
1992: Aikman
1991: Mark Rypien
1990: Phil Simms
1989: Montana
1988: Montana

To put Kaepernick or Wilson up there would seem to start a new era for the NFL, where you don't need an elite pocket-passing QB to win it all. While the Seahawks might be the best team on paper, history would seem to insist that the only possible champion this year is in the AFC.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
Leanin_on_Slick
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1/16/2014 9:56:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/16/2014 6:31:07 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
Kaepernick and Wilson are not overly productive quarterbacks, it's likely the defense and run game that are going to control those games. Brady's being hailed as a hero just for getting this far with how unfortunate his team's situation has been thus far (injuries), so nobody is going to blame him for losing.

This could be Manning's last game. He's got more weapons than any quarterback could dream of, and as you said before, his productivity has not really lived up to his legacy. The Lombardi Trophy is his to lose, and if he doesn't win it, it will almost certainly be because he didn't realize his potential. With Erick Decker, Wes Welker, and Demaryieous Thomas to throw to (with a decent-enough defense), he BETTER not screw this up. History seems to indicate that these two NFC teams don't have the quarterback play to get the job done. I can't see Kaepernick's or Wilson's name on top of this list:

2012: Flacco
2011: E Manning
2010: Rodgers
2009: Brees
2008: Roethlesburger
2007: E Manning
2006: P Manning
2005: Roethlesburger
2004: Brady
2003: Brady
2002: Brad Johnson
2001: Brady
2000: Trent Dilfer
1999: Kurt Warner
1998: Elway
1997: Elway
1996: Favre
1995: Aikman
1994: Young
1993: Aikman
1992: Aikman
1991: Mark Rypien
1990: Phil Simms
1989: Montana
1988: Montana

To put Kaepernick or Wilson up there would seem to start a new era for the NFL, where you don't need an elite pocket-passing QB to win it all. While the Seahawks might be the best team on paper, history would seem to insist that the only possible champion this year is in the AFC.

Not to counteract you some more lol but... While it definitely helps to have an elite quarterback I certainly wouldn't put Flacco, Dilfer, or Johnson in that category or ahead of Wilson and Kap. While Flacco did go on fire for the playoffs last year, he has normally never been one to put up big numbers . Eli is also a streaky quarterback, though perhaps clutch. (The Giants lit on fire at the right time both those years) Roethlesburger is solid but those Steelers teams I would argue were more defensive teams than anything else. (Similar to booth Seattle and San Francisco)
Leanin_on_Slick
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1/16/2014 10:07:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/15/2014 5:07:57 PM, Koopin wrote:
Tom or Manning?

Wilson or Kaepernick?

Definitely Manning if he doesn't at least make it to the super bowl it will be viewed as a failed season by many.

I think Wilson, he has played poorly as of late, while Kap has already shown some clutch playful play.
R0b1Billion
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1/16/2014 10:27:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/16/2014 9:56:37 PM, Leanin_on_Slick wrote:
At 1/16/2014 6:31:07 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
Kaepernick and Wilson are not overly productive quarterbacks, it's likely the defense and run game that are going to control those games. Brady's being hailed as a hero just for getting this far with how unfortunate his team's situation has been thus far (injuries), so nobody is going to blame him for losing.

This could be Manning's last game. He's got more weapons than any quarterback could dream of, and as you said before, his productivity has not really lived up to his legacy. The Lombardi Trophy is his to lose, and if he doesn't win it, it will almost certainly be because he didn't realize his potential. With Erick Decker, Wes Welker, and Demaryieous Thomas to throw to (with a decent-enough defense), he BETTER not screw this up. History seems to indicate that these two NFC teams don't have the quarterback play to get the job done. I can't see Kaepernick's or Wilson's name on top of this list:

2012: Flacco
2011: E Manning
2010: Rodgers
2009: Brees
2008: Roethlesburger
2007: E Manning
2006: P Manning
2005: Roethlesburger
2004: Brady
2003: Brady
2002: Brad Johnson
2001: Brady
2000: Trent Dilfer
1999: Kurt Warner
1998: Elway
1997: Elway
1996: Favre
1995: Aikman
1994: Young
1993: Aikman
1992: Aikman
1991: Mark Rypien
1990: Phil Simms
1989: Montana
1988: Montana

To put Kaepernick or Wilson up there would seem to start a new era for the NFL, where you don't need an elite pocket-passing QB to win it all. While the Seahawks might be the best team on paper, history would seem to insist that the only possible champion this year is in the AFC.

Not to counteract you some more lol but... While it definitely helps to have an elite quarterback I certainly wouldn't put Flacco, Dilfer, or Johnson in that category or ahead of Wilson and Kap. While Flacco did go on fire for the playoffs last year, he has normally never been one to put up big numbers . Eli is also a streaky quarterback, though perhaps clutch. (The Giants lit on fire at the right time both those years) Roethlesburger is solid but those Steelers teams I would argue were more defensive teams than anything else. (Similar to booth Seattle and San Francisco)

Dilfer and Brad Johnson were definitely the outliers. Flacco's contract speaks for itself, methinks, as they wouldn't be paying him elite money if he wasn't elite. In Johnson's case, he had not a good defense, but a record-setting defense behind him ("The 2002 Buccaneers became the first team to lead the league in total defense, points allowed, and interceptions since the 1985 Chicago Bears. They also held opposing quarterbacks to an unbelievable 48.4 passer rating for the season."), not to mention a coach that was the head coach for their superbowl rivals (the Raiders) for the three years preceding, and had prepped them beforehand for the exact plays they were to face. He also knew all the audibles because he was the one that created them and the dumbasses never changed them afterwards!

As for Dilfer, he had not a good defense, not a record-setting defense, but the best defense of all time led by none other than Ray Lewis in his prime. The 2000 Ravens held opponents to 165 points allowed in 2000, the best ever achieved. Compare that to the "good" defenses of the 49ers (405 PA) and Seahawks (417 PA). Considering that either Brady or Manning is coming at them in New York in 2.5 weeks, I don't see any chance for either of them. The AFC Championship game is the Superbowl IMO. I would be surprised if I'm not writing "P Manning" atop that list, and absolutely shocked if I have to write "Kaepernick" or "Wilson." Scrambling QBs have never been proven to win championships, even though they can dominate weak defenses in the regular season.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
lannan13
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1/17/2014 5:26:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/15/2014 5:07:57 PM, Koopin wrote:
Tom or Manning?

Manning

Wilson or Kaepernick?

Kaepernick
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R0b1Billion
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1/17/2014 6:53:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 5:26:40 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 1/15/2014 5:07:57 PM, Koopin wrote:
Tom or Manning?

Manning

Wilson or Kaepernick?

Kaepernick

Coca-Cola or Diet Coke? Justify your answer.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
Loserboi
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1/18/2014 4:56:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/15/2014 5:07:57 PM, Koopin wrote:
Tom or Manning?

Wilson or Kaepernick?

Manning (Obviously)

Manning, he is the reigning MVP, broke records, and has made the broncos the number 1 team in the NFL. Manning is known for choking in the playoffs, and poor playoff performances. He had the greatest season a quarterback ever had (statistically at least) and all his players are healthy. Knowshon Moreno is a top back this year, Decker, Welker, and Thomas, J Thomas, are all seen as top players in their positions. Manning just has to beat a severely handicapped Patriots team. Brady gets credit for making it this far with throwing to Edelman and uhhh Thompkins and not to mention a circus of average thrown away runningbacks.

As a Niners fan, I will say Kaepernick for sure.

Kaepernick has to redeem himself for last year. Going down in history as the very first 49er quarterback to ever lose in a superbowl (and the very first to get picked off in one) he has to play well. The storyline is this. We (they are my team, so yes "we") threw away Alex Smith because we believed in Kaepernick. Kaepernick played like garbage most of the season, and was even being outplayed by Smith in KC.

Like Steve Young once said "if you are going to play for San Francisco YOU HAVE TO WIN A SUPERBOWL, it doesn't matter that I was a 2x MVP, or that we made the playoffs every year, none of that mattered. In San Francisco if you don't win a superbowl... We like you... but we don't want you staying very long."

Kaepernick is expected to do this eventually. Kaepernick is expected to take the most talented team in the NFL to the superbowl. Russel Wilson has probably already became a unforgettable name in Seahawks history. He completely changed that franchise around, he is a hero there. Seattle has never won anyway, them losing this year doesn't really matter. Wilson won't be blamed if they lose, it will be embarassing but the Seahawks, and Seattle won't hold a grudge against him. Teams that have never won one never overly-criticize their quarterback for too long. Look at Rivers as a prime example.
Ore_Ele
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1/18/2014 1:10:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I don't know if those same expectations really exist right now for the 49ers. They hadn't been to a super bowl in 18 years.

After all, Steve Young continued to play for 4 years after his last SB win and retired mostly due to age and injury. Heck, he only started for 8 season. Alex Smith was starting there for 6 1/2 and Jeff Garcia for 5. If Keap continues to win 11, 12, or 13 games a season, they are not gonna let him go.

The 49ers got spoiled by having 2 HOF QBs back to back and winning 5 Super Bowls in 14 years. They have since gone 18 without a win and I don't believe they are still honestly holding on to those same expectations.
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R0b1Billion
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1/18/2014 6:34:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/18/2014 4:56:41 AM, Loserboi wrote:
At 1/15/2014 5:07:57 PM, Koopin wrote:
Tom or Manning?

Wilson or Kaepernick?

Manning (Obviously)

Manning, he is the reigning MVP, broke records, and has made the broncos the number 1 team in the NFL. Manning is known for choking in the playoffs, and poor playoff performances. He had the greatest season a quarterback ever had (statistically at least) and all his players are healthy. Knowshon Moreno is a top back this year, Decker, Welker, and Thomas, J Thomas, are all seen as top players in their positions. Manning just has to beat a severely handicapped Patriots team. Brady gets credit for making it this far with throwing to Edelman and uhhh Thompkins and not to mention a circus of average thrown away runningbacks.

As a Niners fan, I will say Kaepernick for sure.

Kaepernick has to redeem himself for last year. Going down in history as the very first 49er quarterback to ever lose in a superbowl (and the very first to get picked off in one) he has to play well. The storyline is this. We (they are my team, so yes "we") threw away Alex Smith because we believed in Kaepernick. Kaepernick played like garbage most of the season, and was even being outplayed by Smith in KC.

Like Steve Young once said "if you are going to play for San Francisco YOU HAVE TO WIN A SUPERBOWL, it doesn't matter that I was a 2x MVP, or that we made the playoffs every year, none of that mattered. In San Francisco if you don't win a superbowl... We like you... but we don't want you staying very long."

Kaepernick is expected to do this eventually. Kaepernick is expected to take the most talented team in the NFL to the superbowl. Russel Wilson has probably already became a unforgettable name in Seahawks history. He completely changed that franchise around, he is a hero there. Seattle has never won anyway, them losing this year doesn't really matter. Wilson won't be blamed if they lose, it will be embarassing but the Seahawks, and Seattle won't hold a grudge against him. Teams that have never won one never overly-criticize their quarterback for too long. Look at Rivers as a prime example.

I agree, Kaepernick is in hot water here. You can feel it. Wilson is gonna be a feel-good story for at least another season even without a win tomorrow, but people are going to want Kaepernick's head if he doesn't pull through. That commercial he did is gonna resemble reality lol.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
R0b1Billion
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1/18/2014 6:39:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/18/2014 1:10:25 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
I don't know if those same expectations really exist right now for the 49ers. They hadn't been to a super bowl in 18 years.

After all, Steve Young continued to play for 4 years after his last SB win and retired mostly due to age and injury. Heck, he only started for 8 season. Alex Smith was starting there for 6 1/2 and Jeff Garcia for 5. If Keap continues to win 11, 12, or 13 games a season, they are not gonna let him go.

The 49ers got spoiled by having 2 HOF QBs back to back and winning 5 Super Bowls in 14 years. They have since gone 18 without a win and I don't believe they are still honestly holding on to those same expectations.

Apart from the obvious exception of Jerry Rice, who by himself may be the greatest football player of all time, none of those people had a team like Kaepernick has right now. He's got a good o-line, sick skill-position weapons, and an awesome front seven on defense. The secondary can't be that bad either as they were top-5 in passing yards allowed during the season, and used high-round picks on DBs. If Kaepernick can't pull it off again I don't think he's toast right away, but it will be the beginning of the end. This guy is Tim Tebow waiting to happen in my opinion, and he even throws like him. Tebow had better intangibles if you ask me!
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
Ore_Ele
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1/18/2014 6:45:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/18/2014 6:39:58 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 1/18/2014 1:10:25 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
I don't know if those same expectations really exist right now for the 49ers. They hadn't been to a super bowl in 18 years.

After all, Steve Young continued to play for 4 years after his last SB win and retired mostly due to age and injury. Heck, he only started for 8 season. Alex Smith was starting there for 6 1/2 and Jeff Garcia for 5. If Keap continues to win 11, 12, or 13 games a season, they are not gonna let him go.

The 49ers got spoiled by having 2 HOF QBs back to back and winning 5 Super Bowls in 14 years. They have since gone 18 without a win and I don't believe they are still honestly holding on to those same expectations.

Apart from the obvious exception of Jerry Rice, who by himself may be the greatest football player of all time, none of those people had a team like Kaepernick has right now. He's got a good o-line, sick skill-position weapons, and an awesome front seven on defense. The secondary can't be that bad either as they were top-5 in passing yards allowed during the season, and used high-round picks on DBs. If Kaepernick can't pull it off again I don't think he's toast right away, but it will be the beginning of the end. This guy is Tim Tebow waiting to happen in my opinion, and he even throws like him. Tebow had better intangibles if you ask me!


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Leanin_on_Slick
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1/18/2014 10:15:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/16/2014 10:27:20 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 1/16/2014 9:56:37 PM, Leanin_on_Slick wrote:
At 1/16/2014 6:31:07 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
Kaepernick and Wilson are not overly productive quarterbacks, it's likely the defense and run game that are going to control those games. Brady's being hailed as a hero just for getting this far with how unfortunate his team's situation has been thus far (injuries), so nobody is going to blame him for losing.

This could be Manning's last game. He's got more weapons than any quarterback could dream of, and as you said before, his productivity has not really lived up to his legacy. The Lombardi Trophy is his to lose, and if he doesn't win it, it will almost certainly be because he didn't realize his potential. With Erick Decker, Wes Welker, and Demaryieous Thomas to throw to (with a decent-enough defense), he BETTER not screw this up. History seems to indicate that these two NFC teams don't have the quarterback play to get the job done. I can't see Kaepernick's or Wilson's name on top of this list:

2012: Flacco
2011: E Manning
2010: Rodgers
2009: Brees
2008: Roethlesburger
2007: E Manning
2006: P Manning
2005: Roethlesburger
2004: Brady
2003: Brady
2002: Brad Johnson
2001: Brady
2000: Trent Dilfer
1999: Kurt Warner
1998: Elway
1997: Elway
1996: Favre
1995: Aikman
1994: Young
1993: Aikman
1992: Aikman
1991: Mark Rypien
1990: Phil Simms
1989: Montana
1988: Montana

To put Kaepernick or Wilson up there would seem to start a new era for the NFL, where you don't need an elite pocket-passing QB to win it all. While the Seahawks might be the best team on paper, history would seem to insist that the only possible champion this year is in the AFC.

Not to counteract you some more lol but... While it definitely helps to have an elite quarterback I certainly wouldn't put Flacco, Dilfer, or Johnson in that category or ahead of Wilson and Kap. While Flacco did go on fire for the playoffs last year, he has normally never been one to put up big numbers . Eli is also a streaky quarterback, though perhaps clutch. (The Giants lit on fire at the right time both those years) Roethlesburger is solid but those Steelers teams I would argue were more defensive teams than anything else. (Similar to booth Seattle and San Francisco)

Dilfer and Brad Johnson were definitely the outliers. Flacco's contract speaks for itself, methinks, as they wouldn't be paying him elite money if he wasn't elite. In Johnson's case, he had not a good defense, but a record-setting defense behind him ("The 2002 Buccaneers became the first team to lead the league in total defense, points allowed, and interceptions since the 1985 Chicago Bears. They also held opposing quarterbacks to an unbelievable 48.4 passer rating for the season."), not to mention a coach that was the head coach for their superbowl rivals (the Raiders) for the three years preceding, and had prepped them beforehand for the exact plays they were to face. He also knew all the audibles because he was the one that created them and the dumbasses never changed them afterwards!

As for Dilfer, he had not a good defense, not a record-setting defense, but the best defense of all time led by none other than Ray Lewis in his prime. The 2000 Ravens held opponents to 165 points allowed in 2000, the best ever achieved. Compare that to the "good" defenses of the 49ers (405 PA) and Seahawks (417 PA). Considering that either Brady or Manning is coming at them in New York in 2.5 weeks, I don't see any chance for either of them. The AFC Championship game is the Superbowl IMO. I would be surprised if I'm not writing "P Manning" atop that list, and absolutely shocked if I have to write "Kaepernick" or "Wilson." Scrambling QBs have never been proven to win championships, even though they can dominate weak defenses in the regular season.

I think the ravens made a mistake paying that kind of money. Look at his stats, both Wilson and Kap have higher passer ratings. Joe threw
22 picks and 19 tds this year. He's stats as a whole have been pretty average. The ravens until this year have long been seen as a defensive team with a playmaker at running back (Ray Rice). I would also pick the Broncos to win the super bowl, but that Wilson can throw(even with pretty average wideouts) an Kap is solid enough to get the job done.(With the receiver weapons as well) I would never count Brady out, but the pats to me seem the weakest and I would say they are the least likely to win it.