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Ray Rice

Domr
Posts: 13
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9/8/2014 6:21:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
This bothers me on so many levels.

If you are unaware, THIS, refers to the recently leaked video footage, and the previous investigation of, Former-NFL Baltimore Ravens Running back, Ray Rice striking his then-fiance and now wife, in a Casino elevator. The initial footage, during February when this took place, only showed outside the elevator. Ray Rice was seen dragging his unconscious fiance. He was later arrested for aggravated assault.

This morning footage was released, by TMZ, from inside the elevator showing Rice striking her in the face.

First and foremost, you should never hit woman. Especially when it knocks them on their butt. I can never condone that. So Ray Rice, you are wrong. You are an NFL player. A man who makes a living being strong and powerful. You should have kept her at arms length, bear hugged her, or done ten other possibly things to safely subdue her attacks.

Secondly, from the outside and inside elevator camera footage, she is clearly the instigator. She hit Rice outside the elevator after walking by him. She then slapped him as she was standing in front of the elevator buttons (inside).

This is when Rice first hit her (seemingly open handed shove to the face) That is WRONG. I understand pushing her back. But pushing/hitting in the face is wrong. He did the RIGHT thing after this though. He backed away from her. He went to the opposite end of the elevator. She then in turned lunged at him. He did the same thing again. He hit/pushed/shoved her face with great FORCE. This was again wrong. However, he essentially stiff armed her. He kept her at arms length and pushed her aside.

I thoroughly watched the the hit in real time and slow motion. It is impossible to discern open or closed fist. Regardless, he is sweeping her to the side which makes me believe it was an open handed shoe. You don't shove people with a closed fist. Now again, WHY GO FOR HER FACE? This is barbaric and a complete show of dominance. I get that Rice was hit in his face several times, but equal retaliation is NOT OK in this situation.

As she was shoved/slapped/hit, however you interpret this, she fell into the elevator wall, clearly hitting her head on the railing on the way down. I do not seen any whiplash from Rice striking her, so I can safely assume he did not knock her out. The fall and railing did this. I understand this was a direct result of Rice's actions. But to assume Rice used the full force of an NFL player to punch his fiance in the face and knock her out cold, is inaccurate. It was the fall that caused this.

And lastly, the lackluster performance of dragging her out of the elevator was laughable. Laughable in the sense that there was no panic, or really any care for her in those initial moments. He is an NFL player, I strongly assume he could have picked her up and safely taken her to a bench, or any open area to set her down properly. Only later when he is nudging her more does he realize what his actions did.

I do not believe Ray Rice deserves a lifetime ban. I was an advocate for closer to 8 games to a year initially. I am still standing by that preference. He should be suspended for a year. After that time, he should be allowed to be reinstated by the NFL and allow to work out and sign with teams. We all knew that he had to have struck his now wife in some manner to cause her to get knocked out. Whether he truly hit her in the face that hard, or in reality, striking her hard enough to knock her off her feet and fall into a railing, thus directly causing the knock out.

Ray Rice was trying to prevent himself from being hit any further in this altercation. He was never at risk, nor was this a case of any real self-defense. But you can clearly tell her initially tried to do the right thing by moving away, and went to protect himself from further action by pushing/striking her away from him. His actions afterwards are clearly those of someone who is angry is does not care about the scenario. Being put in that position for ANY of this to play out is horrible.

I truly hope this is not a common theme for Rice's life. I hope this truly was a one time fluke, as no woman should ever have to go through any of this. However, a quick note to women, while this was NOT Mrs. Rice's fault, she still put herself in a very heated situation and according to the video (as we do not know how this fight started) she clearly instigated this manner. Ray Rice went overboard. No man should ever do this. I hope men and women learn a valuable lesson from this.

I will never preach Ray Rice's innocence in this video as I have clearly demonstrated he wrong, much more than he is right. I hope he is smart enough to truly receive help for this, and I hope his marriage can succeed through all of this. I would like to see him play in the NFL still if he and his wife are able to put this behind them.
Olee
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9/9/2014 11:39:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I totally agree with you to a point. She was clearly an instigator as she slapped him across the face first based off the video. What I don't like is that no one is even bringing that up in the media... Why is that? Clearly no one wants to lose their job. If anyone was to say she was the instigator and hit him first in the main stream media they would most likely be banned and lose their job.

I think he was wrong for hitting her too, but I think it's crazy how everyone is over looking her part and not even mentioning her hitting him. I guess it's ok for a woman to hit a man? No it's not but this is a great example of inequality between sexes. No man should hit a woman and no woman should hit a man either.

Here in Texas it doesn't matter who gets hurt worst in an altercation if you swing first both parties can and most likely will get charged with assault. So why wasn't she charged too??? I already know what your thinking.... He's just so insensitive. Good she gets to play the victim and overlook the facts.

I guess my biggest problem with this situation is that a women can lose her composer and hit a man but he has to maintain his and walk away. I have been hit in the face closed handed by a woman and it hurt like hell, but luckily I was able to walk away. My whole body was shaking my fist were clenched, but I was able to walk out and leave. I have never hit a woman but everybody has a breaking point and both parties should keep their hands to themselves.

Anyway...
I think he should be suspended for six games and then reinstated.
Domr
Posts: 13
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9/9/2014 11:54:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Exactly, and thank you for responding.

If she is mentioned as having caused ANY of this on herself, its a media firestorm. It is exactly what Stephen A Smith (ESPN) came out and said and got suspended for.

Why are men supposed to turn the other cheek like everything is completely fine. Just because we're, by nature, bigger and stronger. I'm not saying punch back, but stopping the attacker by force needs to be allowed.

As mentioned, Ray Rice did this the wrong way, and I hope he can play in the NFL again someday.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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9/9/2014 8:15:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
While I agree that it is sad that her hitting him is being completely ignored, please don't say that she is playing the victim. She has been on Ray's side stronger than anyone else. She married him regardless, refused to press charges, and has been unbelievably supportive of him.

"No one knows the pain that hte media & unwanted options from the public has caused my family. To make us relive a moment in our lives that we regret every day is a horrible thing. To take something away from the man I love that he has worked his [tail] of for all his life just to gain ratings is horrific."

http://www.firstcoastnews.com...

The biggest issue that I have is why everyone is getting up in arms now that the video from inside has been outed. What did they think happen? Your outrage now should be no different than when this first surfaced.

It also bugs me that many (especially on ESPN radio) have been calling for Goodell to be fired because he changed the punishment because of public pressure. In other works, they are trying to create public pressure to fire someone because that person gave in to public pressure. Oh the irony.
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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9/9/2014 10:19:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'm so sad by this whole fiasco. Ray Rice was my favorite player in the league specifically because of what I presumed about his character in addition to his talent. I had a class with him during my freshman year in college when he revitalized Rutgers football. He was always a nice guy, and when he became famous he was still extremely charitable, very proactive in the community and ironically vehemently anti-bullying. I've admired so much about his career both on and off the field. I'm so sad for his family and disappointed in him as a person and role model. He deserves to be punished as representing an organization is part of his job and he failed.

However as a feminist and more importantly a humanist, I am embarrassed by how the media coverage has made me somewhat empathize with Rice. While I find his actions abhorrent and inarguably deserving of a severe penalty, I can't help but think about the unfortunate prevalence of domestic violence for both sexes and if everyone who agrees with demonizing Rice would also demonize their friends and family members who have hit their partner before (even once in their life) if they were to find out about it. Would people support everyone who has ever hit their partner no longer being able to work?

I am in no way condoning Rice's behavior. However I can see why Rice and his wife might be outraged by the possibility of his entire career being completely destroyed by what very well could have been one (huge) mistake. Didn't John Lennon beat Yoko? He's still idolized and considered a peace guru. Chris Brown is made fun of but still has a lot of hit songs (no pun intended). Eminem raps about beating and almost killing his wife...

Again I understand the image the NFL has to protect and they have every right to ostracize Rice because of it, but in considering cases like Michael Vick, Big Ben and others being accused of rape, continuous use of PEDs (which is a repeated violation and not one heat of the moment attack), uhh the possibility and probability that Ray Lewis friggin killed someone but then went on to become a Superbowl champion and MVP, Jim Brown being repeatedly arrested throughout his career for assaulting women, Donte Stallworth pleading guilty to vehicular manslaughter and driving while intoxicated and served just a one year suspension - and these are just off the top of my head - I mean I can understand why Rice might think ending his professional career is a bit much.

I recently read an article about dozens of NFL players who have been arrested in the past 2 years for various crimes, some of them aggressive. I can see why Rice thinks he is being made an example of in a way he considers unfair. I think a 2-3 year league suspension might have been a good punishment. In that time he could have done a lot to reestablish his reputation and attempt to grow as a person. He is missing the prime of his career, and rightfully so, but I feel this punishment when compared to others might not make sense. It makes his wife feel punished even further. Now he will resent her forever despite his own fault in the situation.

I agree with the irony of people still calling for Goodell's head upon him amending the punishment. I think people's backlash stemmed a lot from comparing the penalty of Rice's domestic violence being significantly less than the penalty for others smoking cannabis. The NFL seems to lack meaningful consistency in accountability.
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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9/9/2014 10:45:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Ray's wife did not instigate the physical attack.

In the video footage it looks like Rice SPITS on her pretty clearly as they are walking to the elevator while she comes up toward the pole at around 8-9 seconds in. She swats at him but keeps walking away, and is clearly not trying to hurt him but just kind of dismissing the fact that he spit on her which is hostile. She was provoked by his action and wasn't being aggressive toward him in that moment.

Once inside the elevator, Janay went to push a floor button but Rice got very close to her body and stood over her. She nudges him away with the presumed intention of getting him to back off. It looks like he was basically provoking her through intimidation hence the spitting and standing on top of her as she went to push the buttons. You can tell he was too close to comfort and she felt threatened which is why she nudged him away.

After that Rice most definitely STRIKES her first at which point in time she reacts after getting hit into the elevator wall and she goes to lunge at him. While she is moving toward him he punches her unconscious before she gets the chance to strike.

Janay never really attacks Rice. He clearly spits on her or lunged at her face and was bullying her with his stature. The rest happened so fast that it's truly a shame a few second incident could ruin what this young man has worked for his entire life, especially if he was drunk (not that being drunk excuses a crime). However based on how they both acted and reacted toward each other, I would bet my life that this type of incident has happened with them before. For that reason I can't defend Rice at all beyond pointing out the confusing inconsistency of NFL priorities and punishments.
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Olee
Posts: 3
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9/10/2014 2:09:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Danielle did you see the first five seconds of the video before they got on the elevator? Based off that she swung first, but they are still both wrong. A lot of channels have stopped showing that part.
Domr
Posts: 13
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9/10/2014 12:29:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I agree, she acted first. No one is ever willing to point one finger at the woman. Men are physically stronger and therefore need to take control of their actions.

Women are given a free pass in these situations. Which, in my opinion, is crap. As I mentioned in opening this forum, most of the blame belongs on Ray Rice. But the fact he is being portrayed so poorly makes me feel sorry for him. Not one person in the media has mentioned Janay's actions. No one ever will.

When really, the only way we will ever see any progress for both men and women in this, is if the "National Organization for Women", the same group calling for Goodell's resignation should make some statement stating it is never right for a woman to hit a man either.

She had clearly hit Rice outside the elevator. she pushed him, and then she lunged at him. All of these showing she has to have some (very minimal) blame in this situation has her violence was part of this predicament.
Domr
Posts: 13
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9/10/2014 12:40:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
And now I am feel outrage. I just read a new article about this (and unfortunately never thought of this myself)...

The NFL KNEW Rice had struck Janay in the face with his hand. It was listed in the police report!

There is no reason to suspend him any further than what the NFL thought so initially. (Albeit a poor suspension IMO).

There is nothing new the NFL had found out, they simply did this because of public backlash. Now I am truly calling for Goodell's resignation. This is abhorrent.

While nothing can ever mitigate what Rice did, I believe the tape from inside the elevator actually helps his case. Janay clearly hit her head on the railing after being struck. Which is almost a clear indication Rice did not hit her hard enough to knock her unconscious. Just hard enough to knock her down, unfortunately causing her to be knocked unconscious.

This is sickening in every aspect. The poor actions of Ray Rice. The NFL's initial poor ruling, and now the public backlash causing even further reprimands to a man who is already being beaten down by the media.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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9/11/2014 12:31:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/10/2014 2:09:01 AM, Olee wrote:
Danielle did you see the first five seconds of the video before they got on the elevator? Based off that she swung first, but they are still both wrong. A lot of channels have stopped showing that part.

Yes, I specifically outlined a detailed description of the entire account. My last comment described the actions of both parties from start to finish.
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Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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9/11/2014 11:25:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
The whole indefinite suspension is for show. The Ravens cutting Rice, also, for show. Its to cover their arses for mishandling the situation originally. But why "just for show"? Its not like Rice will be making money while he's suspended?

Lmao, yeah he will. The NFL(Goodell) set forth a two game suspension of Ray Rice. Which was in accordance to the agreement made between the NFL(owners association) and NFLPA(players association). The NFL and NFLPA, after the public backlash over Rice's punishment being too weak changed that suspension for a first offense to six games.

Rice's suspension was not changed because he had already been punished, and in concordance with the agreement between the NFL and NFLPA, a players punishment cannot be altered to be more severe after a punishment is doled out. If such an event were to occur, then the NFL is responsible for compensating that player for lost wages they would have earned otherwise.

Rice's indefinite suspension, being that the original two game suspension was changed, means that the NFL is liable to compensate Rice for any wages lost past the original two game suspension term. So the NFL can suspend Ray Rice for 2-3 years as Danielle suggests, he'll still be making money so long as he is, because the NFL has no grounds, as per the agreement with the NFLPA, then the two game suspension that was levied originally.

TL;DR

Rice is still gettin his money, except now he can sit on his arse and do it

Goodell is fvcked in the court of public opinion, and in actual court when the NFLPA comes after him on behalf of Ray Rice.

Oh, and the Ravens are still liable to pay Rice the guaranteed portions of his contract, for terminating that contract early.
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Domr
Posts: 13
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9/11/2014 12:35:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Well guaranteed contracts are based solely on being part of the 53-man roster when the season begins. Which Rice was not due to suspension.

So when his contract was terminated, so was any "guaranteed" money. Its a common misconception when we hear "Guaranteed Contracts". I read about it one day and was very shocked as I thought the same thing.

Now I agree that Rice WILL get paid. He was punished for his actions. And then punished again. Nothing new happened in that time. the NFLPA has yet to be notified by letter about this suspension detailing the reason.

So Rice will fight and get paid, and or play again (thus getting paid).

What irks me more is 16 female congress members wrote Goodell:

""If you violently assault a woman, you shouldn't get a second chance to play football in the NFL."

What about violently assaulting a man?.....
What if Rhonda Rousey (UFC) decides to come and beat me down. I am much weaker than she is.

Women, especially those in charge, as in Congress, cannot preach for women's equality, and then say that they are lesser when a man commits a crime against them.

If we set a precedent about "crimes against women" (while heinous) is it then only allowed against assault? Or is murdering a woman going to have stricter penalties. Robbing a woman?

Now again, any crime a man commits against a women, IMO is heinous, and violent. But unless women are willing to say they WANT to be #2 in this country, to men, then crime human v. human. Not man v. woman.
Olee
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9/11/2014 3:18:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Domr I agree with you. Based off the report from espn Rice admitted to everything from the beginning and his account was accurate. Once his punishment was handed out that should have been the end of it. This is like double jeopardy.
Domr
Posts: 13
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9/11/2014 3:28:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I just don't know how "double jeopardy" works with the NFL.

The police report told them everything, Rice seemingly told them everything.

Does the fact that he actually told the truth and Janay backed him the reason for the lenient suspension?

I feel Goodell had to be more lenient because he also had to punish Jim Irsay (Colts owner). And he didn't want to be hard on one and not the other.. And you don't want to be hard on one of the team owners (aka one of your own bosses)
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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9/11/2014 9:39:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/11/2014 11:25:54 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
The whole indefinite suspension is for show. The Ravens cutting Rice, also, for show. Its to cover their arses for mishandling the situation originally. But why "just for show"? Its not like Rice will be making money while he's suspended?

Lmao, yeah he will. The NFL(Goodell) set forth a two game suspension of Ray Rice. Which was in accordance to the agreement made between the NFL(owners association) and NFLPA(players association). The NFL and NFLPA, after the public backlash over Rice's punishment being too weak changed that suspension for a first offense to six games.

Rice's suspension was not changed because he had already been punished, and in concordance with the agreement between the NFL and NFLPA, a players punishment cannot be altered to be more severe after a punishment is doled out. If such an event were to occur, then the NFL is responsible for compensating that player for lost wages they would have earned otherwise.

Rice's indefinite suspension, being that the original two game suspension was changed, means that the NFL is liable to compensate Rice for any wages lost past the original two game suspension term. So the NFL can suspend Ray Rice for 2-3 years as Danielle suggests, he'll still be making money so long as he is, because the NFL has no grounds, as per the agreement with the NFLPA, then the two game suspension that was levied originally.

TL;DR

Rice is still gettin his money, except now he can sit on his arse and do it

Goodell is fvcked in the court of public opinion, and in actual court when the NFLPA comes after him on behalf of Ray Rice.

Oh, and the Ravens are still liable to pay Rice the guaranteed portions of his contract, for terminating that contract early.

He was cut from the team first (then the suspension was extended), so any income he was potentially going to make is zip.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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9/11/2014 9:40:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/11/2014 9:39:24 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 9/11/2014 11:25:54 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
The whole indefinite suspension is for show. The Ravens cutting Rice, also, for show. Its to cover their arses for mishandling the situation originally. But why "just for show"? Its not like Rice will be making money while he's suspended?

Lmao, yeah he will. The NFL(Goodell) set forth a two game suspension of Ray Rice. Which was in accordance to the agreement made between the NFL(owners association) and NFLPA(players association). The NFL and NFLPA, after the public backlash over Rice's punishment being too weak changed that suspension for a first offense to six games.

Rice's suspension was not changed because he had already been punished, and in concordance with the agreement between the NFL and NFLPA, a players punishment cannot be altered to be more severe after a punishment is doled out. If such an event were to occur, then the NFL is responsible for compensating that player for lost wages they would have earned otherwise.

Rice's indefinite suspension, being that the original two game suspension was changed, means that the NFL is liable to compensate Rice for any wages lost past the original two game suspension term. So the NFL can suspend Ray Rice for 2-3 years as Danielle suggests, he'll still be making money so long as he is, because the NFL has no grounds, as per the agreement with the NFLPA, then the two game suspension that was levied originally.

TL;DR

Rice is still gettin his money, except now he can sit on his arse and do it

Goodell is fvcked in the court of public opinion, and in actual court when the NFLPA comes after him on behalf of Ray Rice.

Oh, and the Ravens are still liable to pay Rice the guaranteed portions of his contract, for terminating that contract early.

He was cut from the team first (then the suspension was extended), so any income he was potentially going to make is zip.

Also, the NFLPA is not going to come after him. Though he would probably like them to, since that would turn them into the bad guys of the public image.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"