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Top 10 NFL Quarterbacks - Past & Present

ColeTrain
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2/9/2016 3:33:09 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Who are the top 10 quarterbacks ever? Here's my list:

1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Joe Montana
4. Brett Favre
5. Steve Young
6. Johnny Unitas
7. Dan Marino
8. John Elway
9. Terry Bradshaw
10. Aaron Rodgers

Have your own list? Post it, and tell me why I'm wrong.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
Torton
Posts: 988
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2/9/2016 4:05:10 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
For this season:

1. Carson Palmer
2. Cam Newton
3. Tom Brady
4. Russell Wilson
5. Drew Brees
6. Philip Rivers
7. Big Ben
8. Black Bortles
9. Aaron Rodgers
10. Kirk Cousins
Torton
Posts: 988
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2/9/2016 5:57:36 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/9/2016 4:05:10 AM, Torton wrote:
For this season:

1. Carson Palmer
2. Cam Newton
3. Tom Brady
4. Russell Wilson
5. Drew Brees
6. Philip Rivers
7. Big Ben
8. Black Bortles
KEK. I did not mean to do this.
9. Aaron Rodgers
10. Kirk Cousins
FortisAnimi
Posts: 195
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2/9/2016 10:46:08 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/9/2016 3:33:09 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
Who are the top 10 quarterbacks ever? Here's my list:

1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Joe Montana
4. Brett Favre
5. Steve Young
6. Johnny Unitas
7. Dan Marino
8. John Elway
9. Terry Bradshaw
10. Aaron Rodgers

Have your own list? Post it, and tell me why I'm wrong.

1. Joe Montana
2. Tom Brady
3. Dan Marino
4. Johnny Unitas
5. Aaron Rodgers
6. Joe Namath
7. Bart Starr
8. Terry Bradshaw
9. Peyton Manning
10. John Elway
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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2/10/2016 1:05:54 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
I'm doing 15 because I can.

1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Peyton Manning
3. Brett Favre
4. Steve Young
5. Kurt Warner
6. Joe Montana
7. Tom Brady
8. John Elway
9. Dan Marino
10. Roger Staubach
11. Drew Brees
12. Johnny Unitas
13. Bart Starr
14. Eli Manning
15. Philip Rivers

Most overrated quarterback of all-time: Terry Bradshaw.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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FortisAnimi
Posts: 195
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2/10/2016 2:18:24 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/10/2016 1:05:54 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I'm doing 15 because I can.

1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Peyton Manning
3. Brett Favre
4. Steve Young
5. Kurt Warner
6. Joe Montana
7. Tom Brady
8. John Elway
9. Dan Marino
10. Roger Staubach
11. Drew Brees
12. Johnny Unitas
13. Bart Starr
14. Eli Manning
15. Philip Rivers

Most overrated quarterback of all-time: Terry Bradshaw.

You don't have Joe Montana at the number one position? Unforgivable.
1harderthanyouthink
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2/10/2016 2:18:50 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/10/2016 2:18:24 AM, FortisAnimi wrote:
At 2/10/2016 1:05:54 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I'm doing 15 because I can.

1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Peyton Manning
3. Brett Favre
4. Steve Young
5. Kurt Warner
6. Joe Montana
7. Tom Brady
8. John Elway
9. Dan Marino
10. Roger Staubach
11. Drew Brees
12. Johnny Unitas
13. Bart Starr
14. Eli Manning
15. Philip Rivers

Most overrated quarterback of all-time: Terry Bradshaw.

You don't have Joe Montana at the number one position? Unforgivable.

Lol
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
inferno
Posts: 10,565
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2/11/2016 9:52:42 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/9/2016 3:33:09 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
Who are the top 10 quarterbacks ever? Here's my list:

1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Joe Montana
4. Brett Favre
5. Steve Young
6. Johnny Unitas
7. Dan Marino
8. John Elway
9. Terry Bradshaw
10. Aaron Rodgers

Have your own list? Post it, and tell me why I'm wrong.

Tom Brady is ahead of Manning. Brady= 4 Super Bowl rings> 16 consecutive playoffs in a row.

Manning of course just has 2 Super Bowl rings. =)
ColeTrain
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2/11/2016 11:14:16 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/11/2016 9:52:42 PM, inferno wrote:
At 2/9/2016 3:33:09 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
Who are the top 10 quarterbacks ever? Here's my list:

1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Joe Montana
4. Brett Favre
5. Steve Young
6. Johnny Unitas
7. Dan Marino
8. John Elway
9. Terry Bradshaw
10. Aaron Rodgers

Have your own list? Post it, and tell me why I'm wrong.

Tom Brady is ahead of Manning. Brady= 4 Super Bowl rings> 16 consecutive playoffs in a row.

I don't see how *anyone* can base a quarterback's worth on Super Bowl and playoff performance alone. Seriously, they play 16 games in the regular season and a max of 4 games after that. It's also a team effort to win games, so in that regard, the Super Bowl is none more important than any other game in terms of a quarterback's responsibility. And to be quite honest, the Super Bowl oftentimes is not even the most difficult game a team will play. Sure, it's the biggest game in terms of hype (and there's a trophy to be won), but it's still a team effort. Quarterbacks do no more in Super Bowls, quite frankly, than any other game. I think the most important metric is statistics. Of course, Super Bowl wins are demonstrable of successful play by the quarterback, but it's the the determinant of whether or not a quarterback is good.

For example, Manning's play in this most recent Super Bowl was, at best, mediocre. Still, he came away with a win. If nothing else, this proves that games are a team effort. Just because Manning won the Super Bowl doesn't objectively mean he individually deserved it. He carried his weight (albeit light) when necessary and came away with a win. His performance, however, was not fantastic.

Manning of course just has 2 Super Bowl rings. =)

Like I said above, this is not exceptionally important. I guess my overall point (and beef with this argument in general) is that a Super Bowl is a football game. It's a special one, to be sure, but when it comes down to it, it's just another game. That's why, when measuring which quarterback is objectively better, the metric of overall statistics should be valued above the marking of a W or an L on one game. Consider this for a minute: a quarterback doesn't get to choose what team he's drafted by. If a #1 quarterback gets drafted by a rotten team, he can't individually turn the team into Super Bowl champs.

Take Jameis Winston, for example. He had a pretty good rookie season. His team, though, isn't (wasn't) the best. He didn't get to the Super Bowl or even the playoffs. That's why you can't weigh Super Bowl wins over statistics, ever. That's why, numerically, Peyton Manning is superior to Tom Brady.

For now.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,306
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2/11/2016 11:25:02 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/9/2016 4:05:10 AM, Torton wrote:
For this season:

Interesting. I think this adds another useful dimension to the thread. Thanks.

1. Carson Palmer

I love that you put Palmer at the top. It's demonstrable of a classic, old-style QB getting things done from Day 1. Good choice.

2. Cam Newton

Can't go wrong with this kid. Amazing year. I don't really know what to say, except he probably shouldn't be included on this list, if we're counting the SB/]. ;P

3. Tom Brady

Brady's interchangeable with Wilson. He had an incredible year.

4. Russell Wilson

Good choice here, but like I said, this spot is interchangeable with Brady.

5. Drew Brees

Can't say I agree. Rodgers deserves this spot. I'm not a huge fan of the Pack, but this guy deserves credit, as I mentioned below.

6. Philip Rivers

Big Ben is #6.

7. Big Ben

Brees

8. Black Bortles

Rivers.

9. Aaron Rodgers

If even for his clutch performance versus the Lions, Rodgers should be Top 5.

On a side note, we can fit in Bortle here now that Rodgers is up top. ;)

10. Kirk Cousins

Even though he didn't play a full season, and he didn't get insane stats when he did, Dalton did very well and played consistently. I think he deserves this spot.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,306
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2/11/2016 11:27:02 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/9/2016 8:17:27 PM, SactownBoom wrote:
1. Derek Carr

End List

Lol. If only.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,306
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2/11/2016 11:35:05 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/9/2016 10:46:08 PM, FortisAnimi wrote:

This is appalling. Must I individually explain why you're wrong, or group it together? ;)

1. Joe Montana

The biggest over-hype in NFL, ever. As I mentioned in an earlier reply (which I encourage you to read, btw) SB rings =/= best QB

2. Tom Brady

You can't put Brady above Manning, not until he's broken some statistical records dissimilar to SB/playoff. He's close, for sure.

3. Dan Marino

This is a classic example of a QB that was underrated because his team wasn't exceptional all the time.

4. Johnny Unitas

Fair enough, but only because he's a legend. Statistically and manageably, he'd not qualify this high.

5. Aaron Rodgers

Give him a few years.

6. Joe Namath

He was more drama than play, but he's top 20.

7. Bart Starr

Another great Packers QB. Lower tier of the 10 is acceptable.

8. Terry Bradshaw

You can't add him unless you have Young.

9. Peyton Manning

How is he this low?!

10. John Elway

A little higher would be more applicable.

Where's the most recent inductee to the Hall of Fame? The best man to grace the field wearing #4? The Lambeau Legend? Where's FAVRE?!?!
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,306
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2/11/2016 11:46:31 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/10/2016 1:05:54 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I'm doing 15 because I can.

Fair enough. :)

1. Aaron Rodgers

No way. He needs a few more years to see how well he lasts. Besides, his entire career has been overwhelmingly assisted by an elite stash of receivers.

2. Peyton Manning

Good, you have the best of all time near the top. :)

3. Brett Favre

Another fitting choice.

4. Steve Young

Eh, his predecessor needs to be ranked ahead of him. He built the team that Steve played for, and broke in the receivers. Otherwise, this is fairly accurate.

5. Kurt Warner

Hmm? Top 5? Don't think so. Maybe top 15. Look at his career stats -- he's not as good as many of the others you have listed below him.

6. Joe Montana

It's good that you recognize how over-hyped he is, but he is a Top 5 quarterback.

7. Tom Brady

Still pretty low. However, this ranking is satisfactory because I have a particular distaste for Brady and his team. :P

8. John Elway

Accurate ranking, I'd say. :D

9. Dan Marino

In terms of strictly individual merit, Marino accomplished more than Elway, but it's good you included him in your Top 10.

10. Roger Staubach

Staubach was my second choice for the #10 spot.

11. Drew Brees

Definitely a close one. He's done so well. He could feasibly break the career passing yards record if he keeps it up.

12. Johnny Unitas

Another great from the oldies. :)

13. Bart Starr

And... another. It's really hard when you get all of these legends. They all seem worthy of a Top 15 spot.

14. Eli Manning

What?

15. Philip Rivers

What? My reasoning for the two previous interrogatives are two-fold: a) they aren't retired, they've still got a lot left to prove. Unlike some of the other active QBs, these two haven't demonstrated Top 15 ability, yet. Big Ben should be ranked above both of these two. More importantly, b) you can't have these new guys this high when you've got old-timers like Baugh, Kelly, Moon, Fouts, Aikman, and Bradshaw unranked. Complete careers > incomplete ones, in most cases.

Most overrated quarterback of all-time: Terry Bradshaw.

That title belongs to Montana. ;)
Bradshaw, admittedly, played for a dynamic team, but his efforts were likewise essential.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
ColeTrain
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2/11/2016 11:48:37 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/10/2016 1:16:51 AM, Torton wrote:
Most memed QB: Tim Tebow.

Lol! I could rant about how atrocious it is that he isn't in the NFL, but I'd rather not.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
ColeTrain
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2/12/2016 12:01:08 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/10/2016 2:18:24 AM, FortisAnimi wrote:
At 2/10/2016 1:05:54 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I'm doing 15 because I can.

1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Peyton Manning
3. Brett Favre
4. Steve Young
5. Kurt Warner
6. Joe Montana
7. Tom Brady
8. John Elway
9. Dan Marino
10. Roger Staubach
11. Drew Brees
12. Johnny Unitas
13. Bart Starr
14. Eli Manning
15. Philip Rivers

Most overrated quarterback of all-time: Terry Bradshaw.

You don't have Joe Montana at the number one position? Unforgivable.

Totally forgivable, given Montana *isn't* the best QB in the game.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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2/12/2016 12:02:20 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/11/2016 11:46:31 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 2/10/2016 1:05:54 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I'm doing 15 because I can.

Fair enough. :)

1. Aaron Rodgers

No way. He needs a few more years to see how well he lasts. Besides, his entire career has been overwhelmingly assisted by an elite stash of receivers.

Not nearly as elite as some others on the list.

5. Kurt Warner

Hmm? Top 5? Don't think so. Maybe top 15. Look at his career stats -- he's not as good as many of the others you have listed below him.

Vastly underrated.

14. Eli Manning

What?

15. Philip Rivers

What? My reasoning for the two previous interrogatives are two-fold: a) they aren't retired, they've still got a lot left to prove. Unlike some of the other active QBs, these two haven't demonstrated Top 15 ability, yet. Big Ben should be ranked above both of these two. More importantly, b) you can't have these new guys this high when you've got old-timers like Baugh, Kelly, Moon, Fouts, Aikman, and Bradshaw unranked. Complete careers > incomplete ones, in most cases.

Eli and Rivers have thrown more TDs than Rothlisburger. Big Ben, in my opinion, is another overhyped one. Eli and Rivers have "a lot to prove", but Eli really doesn't, and Rivers has the stats.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
ColeTrain
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2/12/2016 12:31:52 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/12/2016 12:02:20 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 2/11/2016 11:46:31 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 2/10/2016 1:05:54 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I'm doing 15 because I can.

Fair enough. :)

1. Aaron Rodgers

No way. He needs a few more years to see how well he lasts. Besides, his entire career has been overwhelmingly assisted by an elite stash of receivers.

Not nearly as elite as some others on the list.

Consistently, Rodgers has had two elite options. That can be said of almost NO other QB on this list.

5. Kurt Warner

Hmm? Top 5? Don't think so. Maybe top 15. Look at his career stats -- he's not as good as many of the others you have listed below him.

Vastly underrated.

I'd agree, but that still puts him Top 15. He's simply not Top 10 material. You've got guys like Graham that used to be a no-brainer, and yet aren't even included here. I just don't see it.

14. Eli Manning

What?

15. Philip Rivers

What? My reasoning for the two previous interrogatives are two-fold: a) they aren't retired, they've still got a lot left to prove. Unlike some of the other active QBs, these two haven't demonstrated Top 15 ability, yet. Big Ben should be ranked above both of these two. More importantly, b) you can't have these new guys this high when you've got old-timers like Baugh, Kelly, Moon, Fouts, Aikman, and Bradshaw unranked. Complete careers > incomplete ones, in most cases.

Eli and Rivers have thrown more TDs than Roethlisberger.

TDs aren't everything. Yardage, mobility, toughness, etc. all come into play as well. I'll concede, though, that TDs are nearly the most important aspect.

Big Ben, in my opinion, is another overhyped one.

I agree. He's overhyped, but better than both Eli and Rivers.

Eli and Rivers have "a lot to prove", but Eli really doesn't, and Rivers has the stats.

They're good. I'm not saying they aren't. But, without even addressing the legends I mentioned already, they aren't better. I could go on and on about more guys that are better than Eli and Rivers, if you wanted.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
1harderthanyouthink
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2/12/2016 12:35:10 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/12/2016 12:31:52 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 2/12/2016 12:02:20 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 2/11/2016 11:46:31 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 2/10/2016 1:05:54 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I'm doing 15 because I can.

Fair enough. :)

1. Aaron Rodgers

No way. He needs a few more years to see how well he lasts. Besides, his entire career has been overwhelmingly assisted by an elite stash of receivers.

Not nearly as elite as some others on the list.

Consistently, Rodgers has had two elite options. That can be said of almost NO other QB on this list.

I'd be hesitant to say any of the people that left Rodgers and didn't do well elsewhere were ever elite.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
ColeTrain
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2/12/2016 12:39:57 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/12/2016 12:35:10 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 2/12/2016 12:31:52 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 2/12/2016 12:02:20 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 2/11/2016 11:46:31 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 2/10/2016 1:05:54 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I'm doing 15 because I can.

Fair enough. :)

1. Aaron Rodgers

No way. He needs a few more years to see how well he lasts. Besides, his entire career has been overwhelmingly assisted by an elite stash of receivers.

Not nearly as elite as some others on the list.

Consistently, Rodgers has had two elite options. That can be said of almost NO other QB on this list.

I'd be hesitant to say any of the people that left Rodgers and didn't do well elsewhere were ever elite.

That's fair. It also has to do with game scheme. Until the addition of Lacy, GB passed ALL the time. That consistency is lost with different schemes from different teams, and players don't normally do well with change, at least initially.

Just out of curiosity, why do you think Rodgers is #1?
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
1harderthanyouthink
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2/12/2016 3:57:21 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/12/2016 12:39:57 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 2/12/2016 12:35:10 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 2/12/2016 12:31:52 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 2/12/2016 12:02:20 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 2/11/2016 11:46:31 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 2/10/2016 1:05:54 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I'm doing 15 because I can.

Fair enough. :)

1. Aaron Rodgers

No way. He needs a few more years to see how well he lasts. Besides, his entire career has been overwhelmingly assisted by an elite stash of receivers.

Not nearly as elite as some others on the list.

Consistently, Rodgers has had two elite options. That can be said of almost NO other QB on this list.

I'd be hesitant to say any of the people that left Rodgers and didn't do well elsewhere were ever elite.

That's fair. It also has to do with game scheme. Until the addition of Lacy, GB passed ALL the time. That consistency is lost with different schemes from different teams, and players don't normally do well with change, at least initially.

Just out of curiosity, why do you think Rodgers is #1?

It says a lot that when people are saying he is really off in a season, his rating is 92.7.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
ColeTrain
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2/12/2016 2:46:26 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/12/2016 3:57:21 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 2/12/2016 12:39:57 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 2/12/2016 12:35:10 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 2/12/2016 12:31:52 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 2/12/2016 12:02:20 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 2/11/2016 11:46:31 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 2/10/2016 1:05:54 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I'm doing 15 because I can.

Fair enough. :)

1. Aaron Rodgers

No way. He needs a few more years to see how well he lasts. Besides, his entire career has been overwhelmingly assisted by an elite stash of receivers.

Not nearly as elite as some others on the list.

Consistently, Rodgers has had two elite options. That can be said of almost NO other QB on this list.

I'd be hesitant to say any of the people that left Rodgers and didn't do well elsewhere were ever elite.

That's fair. It also has to do with game scheme. Until the addition of Lacy, GB passed ALL the time. That consistency is lost with different schemes from different teams, and players don't normally do well with change, at least initially.

Just out of curiosity, why do you think Rodgers is #1?

It says a lot that when people are saying he is really off in a season, his rating is 92.7.

That's fair. Similar to how Young used to be.
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inferno
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2/12/2016 3:04:54 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/11/2016 11:14:16 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 2/11/2016 9:52:42 PM, inferno wrote:
At 2/9/2016 3:33:09 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
Who are the top 10 quarterbacks ever? Here's my list:

1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Joe Montana
4. Brett Favre
5. Steve Young
6. Johnny Unitas
7. Dan Marino
8. John Elway
9. Terry Bradshaw
10. Aaron Rodgers

Have your own list? Post it, and tell me why I'm wrong.

Tom Brady is ahead of Manning. Brady= 4 Super Bowl rings> 16 consecutive playoffs in a row.

I don't see how *anyone* can base a quarterback's worth on Super Bowl and playoff performance alone. Seriously, they play 16 games in the regular season and a max of 4 games after that. It's also a team effort to win games, so in that regard, the Super Bowl is none more important than any other game in terms of a quarterback's responsibility. And to be quite honest, the Super Bowl oftentimes is not even the most difficult game a team will play. Sure, it's the biggest game in terms of hype (and there's a trophy to be won), but it's still a team effort. Quarterbacks do no more in Super Bowls, quite frankly, than any other game. I think the most important metric is statistics. Of course, Super Bowl wins are demonstrable of successful play by the quarterback, but it's the the determinant of whether or not a quarterback is good.

For example, Manning's play in this most recent Super Bowl was, at best, mediocre. Still, he came away with a win. If nothing else, this proves that games are a team effort. Just because Manning won the Super Bowl doesn't objectively mean he individually deserved it. He carried his weight (albeit light) when necessary and came away with a win. His performance, however, was not fantastic.

Manning of course just has 2 Super Bowl rings. =)

Like I said above, this is not exceptionally important. I guess my overall point (and beef with this argument in general) is that a Super Bowl is a football game. It's a special one, to be sure, but when it comes down to it, it's just another game. That's why, when measuring which quarterback is objectively better, the metric of overall statistics should be valued above the marking of a W or an L on one game. Consider this for a minute: a quarterback doesn't get to choose what team he's drafted by. If a #1 quarterback gets drafted by a rotten team, he can't individually turn the team into Super Bowl champs.

Take Jameis Winston, for example. He had a pretty good rookie season. His team, though, isn't (wasn't) the best. He didn't get to the Super Bowl or even the playoffs. That's why you can't weigh Super Bowl wins over statistics, ever. That's why, numerically, Peyton Manning is superior to Tom Brady.

For now.

Peyton Manning himself will tell you he is not superior to Tom Brady. A man who had no championships in college, and carried his team to (16) consecutive playoffs, and won 4 Super Bowl rings. No quarterback in the history of the NFL will ever do this again. And he just might win 5. Sorry kid. Youre wrong. =)
ColeTrain
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2/12/2016 3:17:49 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/12/2016 3:04:54 PM, inferno wrote:
At 2/11/2016 11:14:16 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 2/11/2016 9:52:42 PM, inferno wrote:
At 2/9/2016 3:33:09 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
Who are the top 10 quarterbacks ever? Here's my list:

1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Joe Montana
4. Brett Favre
5. Steve Young
6. Johnny Unitas
7. Dan Marino
8. John Elway
9. Terry Bradshaw
10. Aaron Rodgers

Have your own list? Post it, and tell me why I'm wrong.

Tom Brady is ahead of Manning. Brady= 4 Super Bowl rings> 16 consecutive playoffs in a row.

I don't see how *anyone* can base a quarterback's worth on Super Bowl and playoff performance alone. Seriously, they play 16 games in the regular season and a max of 4 games after that. It's also a team effort to win games, so in that regard, the Super Bowl is none more important than any other game in terms of a quarterback's responsibility. And to be quite honest, the Super Bowl oftentimes is not even the most difficult game a team will play. Sure, it's the biggest game in terms of hype (and there's a trophy to be won), but it's still a team effort. Quarterbacks do no more in Super Bowls, quite frankly, than any other game. I think the most important metric is statistics. Of course, Super Bowl wins are demonstrable of successful play by the quarterback, but it's the the determinant of whether or not a quarterback is good.

For example, Manning's play in this most recent Super Bowl was, at best, mediocre. Still, he came away with a win. If nothing else, this proves that games are a team effort. Just because Manning won the Super Bowl doesn't objectively mean he individually deserved it. He carried his weight (albeit light) when necessary and came away with a win. His performance, however, was not fantastic.

Manning of course just has 2 Super Bowl rings. =)

Like I said above, this is not exceptionally important. I guess my overall point (and beef with this argument in general) is that a Super Bowl is a football game. It's a special one, to be sure, but when it comes down to it, it's just another game. That's why, when measuring which quarterback is objectively better, the metric of overall statistics should be valued above the marking of a W or an L on one game. Consider this for a minute: a quarterback doesn't get to choose what team he's drafted by. If a #1 quarterback gets drafted by a rotten team, he can't individually turn the team into Super Bowl champs.

Take Jameis Winston, for example. He had a pretty good rookie season. His team, though, isn't (wasn't) the best. He didn't get to the Super Bowl or even the playoffs. That's why you can't weigh Super Bowl wins over statistics, ever. That's why, numerically, Peyton Manning is superior to Tom Brady.

For now.

Peyton Manning himself will tell you he is not superior to Tom Brady. A man who had no championships in college, and carried his team to (16) consecutive playoffs, and won 4 Super Bowl rings. No quarterback in the history of the NFL will ever do this again. And he just might win 5. Sorry kid. Youre wrong. =)

You haven't addressed any of the points I've made... Super Bowl wins don't automatically make one player objectively better than another, particularly because it's a team effort. You can't say that I'm wrong when you've failed to even note any of the points I made. Until you do so, you are the one that is wrong, not I. It's fallacious to bring up the same points over and over again after they've been refuted; and that's what you're doing.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
inferno
Posts: 10,565
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2/12/2016 3:26:58 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/12/2016 3:17:49 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 2/12/2016 3:04:54 PM, inferno wrote:
At 2/11/2016 11:14:16 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 2/11/2016 9:52:42 PM, inferno wrote:
At 2/9/2016 3:33:09 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
Who are the top 10 quarterbacks ever? Here's my list:

1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Joe Montana
4. Brett Favre
5. Steve Young
6. Johnny Unitas
7. Dan Marino
8. John Elway
9. Terry Bradshaw
10. Aaron Rodgers

Have your own list? Post it, and tell me why I'm wrong.

Tom Brady is ahead of Manning. Brady= 4 Super Bowl rings> 16 consecutive playoffs in a row.

I don't see how *anyone* can base a quarterback's worth on Super Bowl and playoff performance alone. Seriously, they play 16 games in the regular season and a max of 4 games after that. It's also a team effort to win games, so in that regard, the Super Bowl is none more important than any other game in terms of a quarterback's responsibility. And to be quite honest, the Super Bowl oftentimes is not even the most difficult game a team will play. Sure, it's the biggest game in terms of hype (and there's a trophy to be won), but it's still a team effort. Quarterbacks do no more in Super Bowls, quite frankly, than any other game. I think the most important metric is statistics. Of course, Super Bowl wins are demonstrable of successful play by the quarterback, but it's the the determinant of whether or not a quarterback is good.

For example, Manning's play in this most recent Super Bowl was, at best, mediocre. Still, he came away with a win. If nothing else, this proves that games are a team effort. Just because Manning won the Super Bowl doesn't objectively mean he individually deserved it. He carried his weight (albeit light) when necessary and came away with a win. His performance, however, was not fantastic.

Manning of course just has 2 Super Bowl rings. =)

Like I said above, this is not exceptionally important. I guess my overall point (and beef with this argument in general) is that a Super Bowl is a football game. It's a special one, to be sure, but when it comes down to it, it's just another game. That's why, when measuring which quarterback is objectively better, the metric of overall statistics should be valued above the marking of a W or an L on one game. Consider this for a minute: a quarterback doesn't get to choose what team he's drafted by. If a #1 quarterback gets drafted by a rotten team, he can't individually turn the team into Super Bowl champs.

Take Jameis Winston, for example. He had a pretty good rookie season. His team, though, isn't (wasn't) the best. He didn't get to the Super Bowl or even the playoffs. That's why you can't weigh Super Bowl wins over statistics, ever. That's why, numerically, Peyton Manning is superior to Tom Brady.

For now.

Peyton Manning himself will tell you he is not superior to Tom Brady. A man who had no championships in college, and carried his team to (16) consecutive playoffs, and won 4 Super Bowl rings. No quarterback in the history of the NFL will ever do this again. And he just might win 5. Sorry kid. Youre wrong. =)

You haven't addressed any of the points I've made... Super Bowl wins don't automatically make one player objectively better than another, particularly because it's a team effort. You can't say that I'm wrong when you've failed to even note any of the points I made. Until you do so, you are the one that is wrong, not I. It's fallacious to bring up the same points over and over again after they've been refuted; and that's what you're doing.

Well it does matter to some degree. Id put Joe Montana at second as he is also better than Peyton Manning. And that is because of his form, and his accuracy when throwing, as well as his agility, and knowledge of the game. Tom Brady has a more confidence too and it shows. I think Manning often felt intimidated by Brady most of the time and was in his shadow. But be warned, Brady isn't going anywhere right now. So this isn't over yet. Id be careful if I were you. =)
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,306
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2/12/2016 4:06:54 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/12/2016 3:26:58 PM, inferno wrote:
At 2/12/2016 3:17:49 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 2/12/2016 3:04:54 PM, inferno wrote:
At 2/11/2016 11:14:16 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 2/11/2016 9:52:42 PM, inferno wrote:
At 2/9/2016 3:33:09 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
Who are the top 10 quarterbacks ever? Here's my list:

1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Joe Montana
4. Brett Favre
5. Steve Young
6. Johnny Unitas
7. Dan Marino
8. John Elway
9. Terry Bradshaw
10. Aaron Rodgers

Have your own list? Post it, and tell me why I'm wrong.

Tom Brady is ahead of Manning. Brady= 4 Super Bowl rings> 16 consecutive playoffs in a row.

I don't see how *anyone* can base a quarterback's worth on Super Bowl and playoff performance alone. Seriously, they play 16 games in the regular season and a max of 4 games after that. It's also a team effort to win games, so in that regard, the Super Bowl is none more important than any other game in terms of a quarterback's responsibility. And to be quite honest, the Super Bowl oftentimes is not even the most difficult game a team will play. Sure, it's the biggest game in terms of hype (and there's a trophy to be won), but it's still a team effort. Quarterbacks do no more in Super Bowls, quite frankly, than any other game. I think the most important metric is statistics. Of course, Super Bowl wins are demonstrable of successful play by the quarterback, but it's the the determinant of whether or not a quarterback is good.

For example, Manning's play in this most recent Super Bowl was, at best, mediocre. Still, he came away with a win. If nothing else, this proves that games are a team effort. Just because Manning won the Super Bowl doesn't objectively mean he individually deserved it. He carried his weight (albeit light) when necessary and came away with a win. His performance, however, was not fantastic.

Manning of course just has 2 Super Bowl rings. =)

Like I said above, this is not exceptionally important. I guess my overall point (and beef with this argument in general) is that a Super Bowl is a football game. It's a special one, to be sure, but when it comes down to it, it's just another game. That's why, when measuring which quarterback is objectively better, the metric of overall statistics should be valued above the marking of a W or an L on one game. Consider this for a minute: a quarterback doesn't get to choose what team he's drafted by. If a #1 quarterback gets drafted by a rotten team, he can't individually turn the team into Super Bowl champs.

Take Jameis Winston, for example. He had a pretty good rookie season. His team, though, isn't (wasn't) the best. He didn't get to the Super Bowl or even the playoffs. That's why you can't weigh Super Bowl wins over statistics, ever. That's why, numerically, Peyton Manning is superior to Tom Brady.

For now.

Peyton Manning himself will tell you he is not superior to Tom Brady. A man who had no championships in college, and carried his team to (16) consecutive playoffs, and won 4 Super Bowl rings. No quarterback in the history of the NFL will ever do this again. And he just might win 5. Sorry kid. Youre wrong. =)

You haven't addressed any of the points I've made... Super Bowl wins don't automatically make one player objectively better than another, particularly because it's a team effort. You can't say that I'm wrong when you've failed to even note any of the points I made. Until you do so, you are the one that is wrong, not I. It's fallacious to bring up the same points over and over again after they've been refuted; and that's what you're doing.

Well it does matter to some degree.

What exactly are you saying matters?

Id put Joe Montana at second as he is also better than Peyton Manning.

Another hyped QB based on Super Bowl wins.

And that is because of his form, and his accuracy when throwing, as well as his agility, and knowledge of the game.

Accuracy? They were about the same, but Manning has a higher career completion percentage (65.3%) comparative to Montana (63.2%) That's a difference range of 2.1%, making Manning an objectively more accurate thrower. Besides, Manning's knowledge of the game is essentially unmatched. He's legendary for his knowledge. The only possible advantage Montana has in this argument is his mobility, which is minor compared to other QB stats.

Tom Brady has a more confidence too and it shows.

Entirely subjective. Perhaps it's also due to the fact Brady has almost ALWAYS played for a better team. The Colts' offensive line was atrocious for Manning's last few years. That's sufficient cause to worry if you're an all-star QB.

I think Manning often felt intimidated by Brady most of the time and was in his shadow.

Not necessarily.

But be warned, Brady isn't going anywhere right now.

What's that supposed to mean?

So this isn't over yet. Id be careful if I were you. =)

You still haven't addressed my arguments...
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
1harderthanyouthink
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2/12/2016 7:57:55 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Brady hasn't beat a Manning in a meaningful game since 2005.
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1harderthanyouthink
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2/12/2016 8:16:07 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
To put this into perspective:

Tom Brady is 10-6 in AFC Championship games and Super Bowls. Against the Mannings in those games, he is 1-5 - with the only win coming in 2004's AFC Championship.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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NewLifeChristian
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2/14/2016 2:14:20 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/9/2016 3:33:09 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
Who are the top 10 quarterbacks ever? Here's my list:

1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Joe Montana
4. Brett Favre
5. Steve Young
6. Johnny Unitas
7. Dan Marino
8. John Elway
9. Terry Bradshaw
10. Aaron Rodgers

Have your own list? Post it, and tell me why I'm wrong.
It's a pretty good list, although I might place Tom Brady in first, instead of Peyton Manning.
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