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2016: Insane amounts of stardom riding off

1harderthanyouthink
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9/23/2016 11:04:17 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
I'm counting anyone who started/finished the 2015-16 seasons for leagues that split years (NHL, NBA, NFL), and 2016 season for the MLB, which plays in one yer per season. These players have either been publicized stars, underrated players that the leagues will miss, or extremely important to certain teams' success.

NFL:

Peyton Manning
Marshawn Lynch
Calvin Johnson

Charles Woodson
Jared Allen

Greg Jennings
Justin Tuck
D'Brickashaw Ferguson
Charles Tillman
Jon Beason

5 absolute Hall of Famers, bolded. The rest probably could have made it if injuries didn't plague them or end careers early.

I know Tillman is probably Hall worthy, but I doubt he gets in. If the end of his career wasn't fvcked, he'd have a better shot. He had good years from ages 24-31. His best years were actually probably ages 29-31, which is remarkable and very odd for a defensive back. However, after his age 32 season was cut off by torn triceps, he never returned in full. Charles Woodson had productive years until the end at age 39 - so we can reasonably say Tillman lost 4-6 years due to injury. If he had those, he'd definitely be a Hall of Fame player.

NBA:

Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett

Amar'e Stoudemire
Jason Richardson
Shawn Marion

Note: Bryant, Duncan, and Garnett combine for 48 all-star appearances. No other trio of NBA retirees in a year had more than 34. The top 3 are definite Hall of Famers. The next two have a case, and Marion is good but not that great.

NHL:

Pavel Datsyuk
Scott Gomez
Brad Richards
Vincent Lecavalier
Chris Phillips
Lubomir Visnovsky
Brenden Morrow

There's only one definite Hall of Famer, but that isn't a knock because the NHL Hall is probably the toughest to enter.

Gomez, Richards, and Lecavalier could all make cases but are iffy at best.

MLB:

Alex Rodriguez (as of now)
David Ortiz
Mark Teixeira
Prince Fielder
Rafael Soriano

Based on stats, they could all reasonably be in the Hall of Fame. The top 3, based on stats - definitely. Fielder: about 70% chance, I'd say. Soriano has about a 50% chance, if his career is properly looked at.

---

The best concentrations of talent are definitely in the NBA and MLB.

But let's also recognize two legendary sportscasters:

Vin Scully, 88, MLB - Dodgers
Dick Enberg, 82, MLB - Padres
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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9/24/2016 1:28:40 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
Greg Jennings is barely worth any sort of mention.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
airmax1227
Posts: 13,244
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9/24/2016 10:46:08 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/23/2016 11:04:17 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I'm counting anyone who started/finished the 2015-16 seasons for leagues that split years (NHL, NBA, NFL), and 2016 season for the MLB, which plays in one yer per season. These players have either been publicized stars, underrated players that the leagues will miss, or extremely important to certain teams' success.

NFL:

Peyton Manning
Marshawn Lynch
Calvin Johnson

Charles Woodson
Jared Allen

Greg Jennings
Justin Tuck
D'Brickashaw Ferguson
Charles Tillman
Jon Beason

5 absolute Hall of Famers, bolded. The rest probably could have made it if injuries didn't plague them or end careers early.


I doubt that Marshawn Lynch will be a HOFer anytime soon (if ever). He had a great career, but he's a bubble HOF player at best.

Consider that players like Edgerrin James, Fred Taylor, Corey Dillon, Warrick Dunn, Ricky Watters, Jamal Lewis, Thomas Jones, Tiki Barber, Eddie George, Ottis Anderson, Clinton Portis, Ricky Williams, Shaun Alexander, and Ahman Green, all ran for more yards and still haven't been voted into the HOF.

All of those players had brilliant careers, and better then, or comparable to Lynch, and none have been voted into the HOF yet.

Lynch had a great career, but his numbers don't jump off the page as someone sure to get into the HOF.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com...

On the other hand, he was responsible for this play:

https://www.youtube.com...
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R0b1Billion
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9/25/2016 1:08:08 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/24/2016 10:46:08 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 9/23/2016 11:04:17 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I'm counting anyone who started/finished the 2015-16 seasons for leagues that split years (NHL, NBA, NFL), and 2016 season for the MLB, which plays in one yer per season. These players have either been publicized stars, underrated players that the leagues will miss, or extremely important to certain teams' success.

NFL:

Peyton Manning
Marshawn Lynch
Calvin Johnson

Charles Woodson
Jared Allen

Greg Jennings
Justin Tuck
D'Brickashaw Ferguson
Charles Tillman
Jon Beason

5 absolute Hall of Famers, bolded. The rest probably could have made it if injuries didn't plague them or end careers early.


I doubt that Marshawn Lynch will be a HOFer anytime soon (if ever). He had a great career, but he's a bubble HOF player at best.

Consider that players like Edgerrin James, Fred Taylor, Corey Dillon, Warrick Dunn, Ricky Watters, Jamal Lewis, Thomas Jones, Tiki Barber, Eddie George, Ottis Anderson, Clinton Portis, Ricky Williams, Shaun Alexander, and Ahman Green, all ran for more yards and still haven't been voted into the HOF.

All of those players had brilliant careers, and better then, or comparable to Lynch, and none have been voted into the HOF yet.

Lynch had a great career, but his numbers don't jump off the page as someone sure to get into the HOF.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com...

On the other hand, he was responsible for this play:

https://www.youtube.com...

You think Megatron played long enough to get in?
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
R0b1Billion
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9/25/2016 1:14:39 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
I think the changing of the guard at QB this year is amazing. Wilson and Rodgers underwhelming, brees riding off into the sunset, Brady suspended, Romo and Bridgewater busted up, Kaepernick replaced, Peyton manning retired, cousins about to be replaced... And all these new QBs making their debuts.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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9/25/2016 3:55:53 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 1:14:39 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I think the changing of the guard at QB this year is amazing. Wilson and Rodgers underwhelming, brees riding off into the sunset, Brady suspended, Romo and Bridgewater busted up, Kaepernick replaced, Peyton manning retired, cousins about to be replaced... And all these new QBs making their debuts.

And Eli Manning with a 106.9 passer rating and 73.9% completion percentage.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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9/25/2016 12:47:34 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 3:55:53 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:

And Eli Manning with a 106.9 passer rating and 73.9% completion percentage.

I'm jealous, Rodgers has been loathsome for about a year. Its hard to say if he is not playing well or if it is our receivers. They don't seem to be able to get open at all. Jordy Nelson returning was supposed to be our savior, but a 31 year old guy coming off a bad knee injury can only do so much. We've been drafting pure defense for several years now and it is starting to curse us.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
airmax1227
Posts: 13,244
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9/25/2016 5:11:43 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 1:08:08 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:

You think Megatron played long enough to get in?

No, and now that you mention it, he might be even less likely than Lynch.

In the modern pass-happy era of the NFL, WRs are having more and more difficulty getting in.

Before Megatron gets in, the following players will have to get in first:

Randy Moss is a first ballot HOFer, there's no way he doesn't get in.

Terell Owens is actually already eligible and didn't get in yet...

That leaves guys like Isaac Bruce, Reggie Wayne (eligible in '19), Henry Ellard, Torry Holt, Irving Fryer, Jimmy Smith, and Hines Ward.

Megatron certainly had a great career, but it seems like getting in the HOF as a WR is really difficult these days (active WRs like Andre Johnson, Boldin, Fitzgerald, and Steve Smith will all get a look in the future so there is a lot of WR talent in HOF consideration), and so he probably just didn't play long enough.
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9/25/2016 5:47:52 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 5:11:43 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 9/25/2016 1:08:08 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:

You think Megatron played long enough to get in?

No, and now that you mention it, he might be even less likely than Lynch.

Terry Bradshaw says he is a lock but I agree with you. He didn't play long enough.

In the modern pass-happy era of the NFL, WRs are having more and more difficulty getting in.

Before Megatron gets in, the following players will have to get in first:

Randy Moss is a first ballot HOFer, there's no way he doesn't get in.

Terell Owens is actually already eligible and didn't get in yet...

That leaves guys like Isaac Bruce, Reggie Wayne (eligible in '19), Henry Ellard, Torry Holt, Irving Fryer, Jimmy Smith, and Hines Ward.

Megatron certainly had a great career, but it seems like getting in the HOF as a WR is really difficult these days (active WRs like Andre Johnson, Boldin, Fitzgerald, and Steve Smith will all get a look in the future so there is a lot of WR talent in HOF consideration), and so he probably just didn't play long enough.

I agree with megatroncs decision to retire. Getting stuck on the lions sucks, and this whole "I'm just trying to make more money to feed my kids" argument by these millionaires is pretty lame. He's punished his body enough and made enough money. But he doesn't deserve to stand next to guys like Brett Favre.

How about this lions game ;)
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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9/26/2016 6:20:10 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 5:11:43 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 9/25/2016 1:08:08 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:

You think Megatron played long enough to get in?

No, and now that you mention it, he might be even less likely than Lynch.

In the modern pass-happy era of the NFL, WRs are having more and more difficulty getting in.

Before Megatron gets in, the following players will have to get in first:

Randy Moss is a first ballot HOFer, there's no way he doesn't get in.

Terell Owens is actually already eligible and didn't get in yet...

That leaves guys like Isaac Bruce, Reggie Wayne (eligible in '19), Henry Ellard, Torry Holt, Irving Fryer, Jimmy Smith, and Hines Ward.

Megatron certainly had a great career, but it seems like getting in the HOF as a WR is really difficult these days (active WRs like Andre Johnson, Boldin, Fitzgerald, and Steve Smith will all get a look in the future so there is a lot of WR talent in HOF consideration), and so he probably just didn't play long enough.

You raise good points about my HOF picks. I concede on Lynch, but less so on Megatron. He's literally the statistical best in terms of production per time played as a receiver. However, he might not be for long. As a note for that: Odell Beckham may end up, based on his career so far - reaching Johnson's record milestones quicker.

I'm not convinced, also, if Calvin Johnson will stick to the couch. It's hard to shake the itch for someone devoting life to a sport, unless you play until you're 40 like Woodson or until your body breaks down like Lynch. He can dominate now, and he relaxes knowing he can.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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9/26/2016 6:22:20 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
Add Jose Fernandez to the MLB list. I was watching MLB Network when the news broke, and I cried when I watched their press conference on my phone in the middle of a car repair shop.

Best start to a career for a right handed pitcher in I believe 70 years. I watched him in person once, and I can say he was probably the best player I've ever seen perform live.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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9/26/2016 6:23:34 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/25/2016 5:47:52 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 9/25/2016 5:11:43 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
I agree with megatroncs decision to retire. Getting stuck on the lions sucks

You say that after Stafford plays first 2 games like Tom Brady with a stronger arm.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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9/26/2016 10:53:25 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 6:23:34 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 9/25/2016 5:47:52 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 9/25/2016 5:11:43 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
I agree with megatroncs decision to retire. Getting stuck on the lions sucks

You say that after Stafford plays first 2 games like Tom Brady with a stronger arm.

It's still the lions. They ruined Barry Sanders career too. It's a losing organization.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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9/26/2016 11:03:24 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 10:53:25 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 9/26/2016 6:23:34 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 9/25/2016 5:47:52 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 9/25/2016 5:11:43 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
I agree with megatroncs decision to retire. Getting stuck on the lions sucks

You say that after Stafford plays first 2 games like Tom Brady with a stronger arm.

It's still the lions. They ruined Barry Sanders career too. It's a losing organization.

Very true lol
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King