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Extinguish fire with cement.

suttichart.denpruektham
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3/4/2013 6:37:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I just been thinking, that it should be quite effective to use cement slurry instead of just water to fight the fire breakout don't you think?

Water evaporated when contact with high temperature flame and won't help mush but steaming the firefighter alive when facing a serious fire breakout. In fact, I even heard that sometime they even have to use explosive to cut off the source of fire in order to make the fight effective. So I think instead of blow up the building or spending hours trying to extinguish the fire, why don't they just adding some cement in to water to make sure that one the slurry is in contact with fire and water evaporated, cement particle will remain to cut off oxygen from the fire source. It should work in the same way as using sand to extinguish electrical fire.

May be it is more expensive but I saw a gallon of slurry being pumped to reduce acidity in polluted water. If they can spend money to clean off river, they should be able to spend it so to help the massive lost of lifes and properties of fire don't you think?
sadolite
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3/4/2013 5:57:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
You apperently don't know how much a bag of cement costs. And clean up afterward.............PFFFF
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
TheAntidoter
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3/5/2013 9:01:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
It's around 10.00 a bag from what I see on google.
Affinity: Fire
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Nac.

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suttichart.denpruektham
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3/5/2013 9:47:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/4/2013 5:57:40 PM, sadolite wrote:
You apperently don't know how much a bag of cement costs. And clean up afterward.............PFFFF

1 cubic of concrete (1 ton of cement+sans+rock combined) cost only around 100 USD and cheaper if purchase in bulk (if not then you probably paying more than you should). If you buy from a right source a cement can be as cheap as 1.5 USD per bag and you don't need that many cement to make a slurry, you are fighting a fire not building a house, only 20 or 30 percent should be enough.

As for the dirtiness, well your house is on fire any way I hope you are not seriously expected your house to be nice and clean after the fire is off, do you?
sadolite
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3/5/2013 8:47:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/5/2013 9:47:39 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 3/4/2013 5:57:40 PM, sadolite wrote:
You apperently don't know how much a bag of cement costs. And clean up afterward.............PFFFF

1 cubic of concrete (1 ton of cement+sans+rock combined) cost only around 100 USD and cheaper if purchase in bulk (if not then you probably paying more than you should). If you buy from a right source a cement can be as cheap as 1.5 USD per bag and you don't need that many cement to make a slurry, you are fighting a fire not building a house, only 20 or 30 percent should be enough.

As for the dirtiness, well your house is on fire any way I hope you are not seriously expected your house to be nice and clean after the fire is off, do you?

Now that I see the math and bulk purchase power, putting fires out with cement is a good and viable idea.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
mattrodstrom
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3/5/2013 9:30:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
water evaporates... and therefore lowers temperatures fast... allowing firefighters to get closer to real problem areas.

also... I would think that a stream of water can shoot a good distance compared to a slurry of cement too... again allowing access to the worst parts of the fire.

they already have foam-type stuff to smother... which I'm sure is all-around better than a cement slurry.. it smothers, can be shot a good distance, and probably weighs a Massive amount less...

How would you go about fighting a fire with cement slurry?
just pour it into a building, and hope it creeps over to where it's needed?

it couldn't be sprayed, or shot..

And, additionally... any building structure, especially one damaged by fire, might buckle from the additional weight such an ammount of slurry might add..

that's on top of somehow having a decent supply of the stuff on hand to fight random fires...

Water flows nice and easy, and we have Massive flowing supplies of it...
cement slurry would need to be mixed from heavy bags, and it would be unwieldy and of limited supply.

better to use what they already use.. Which is water and other foams/chemicals.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
suttichart.denpruektham
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3/5/2013 11:35:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/5/2013 9:30:11 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
water evaporates... and therefore lowers temperatures fast... allowing firefighters to get closer to real problem areas.

also... I would think that a stream of water can shoot a good distance compared to a slurry of cement too... again allowing access to the worst parts of the fire.

they already have foam-type stuff to smother... which I'm sure is all-around better than a cement slurry.. it smothers, can be shot a good distance, and probably weighs a Massive amount less...

How would you go about fighting a fire with cement slurry?
just pour it into a building, and hope it creeps over to where it's needed?

it couldn't be sprayed, or shot..

And, additionally... any building structure, especially one damaged by fire, might buckle from the additional weight such an ammount of slurry might add..

that's on top of somehow having a decent supply of the stuff on hand to fight random fires...

Water flows nice and easy, and we have Massive flowing supplies of it...
cement slurry would need to be mixed from heavy bags, and it would be unwieldy and of limited supply.

better to use what they already use.. Which is water and other foams/chemicals.

The cheapest foam I came across cost at least 100 USD/10 kg, it expanded 2-3 times by volume when contact with water so you need to pay at least 300 USD to cover the same area as one cubic meter of concrete which only costed around 100 USD, leave alone a cement slurry which is mush cheaper (let see.. normal concrete are consist of 40 percent cement, 30 percent sand and 30 percent rock and water, it cost you 100 USD, cement slurry consist of 20 percent cement and the rest is water so you should pay 30 USD maximum for one cubic volume). That is why you never see a large scale fire fighting with foam (except in the most extreme case such as air plane crash). Cement slurry allow you to apply the efficiency of fire fighting chemical in a mush larger scale such as community fire break out or wildfire.

And contrary to your belief, cement can be pump. How do you think they transport the concrete when building skyscraper tower? No they don't carried to top bag-by-bag and they didn't mix it up there, they ask a cement truck to pump it up, using specialized tube. Now slurry is mush more watery than concrete and also lighter because there is no rock and sand, you should be able to shoot it the same way as water without mush trouble or if you really worried about cleaning your truck, use a cement truck and connect it with your water shooter. There are even a truck that can serve as mobile mixer, carry dry cement, water and whatever additive on board and mix it right before the use, that should eliminate your logistical problem.

But it is true that additional weight might be place on the building once the fire is stopped. even though slurry weight little more than water, it did not evaporate the way the water did and will remain on the structure you applied it too. But of course, it is burnt so you will have to clean it any way, or do I really have to say

"oh and don't forget to clean your house before moving in again".
mattrodstrom
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3/6/2013 8:14:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/5/2013 11:35:47 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 3/5/2013 9:30:11 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
water evaporates... and therefore lowers temperatures fast... allowing firefighters to get closer to real problem areas.

also... I would think that a stream of water can shoot a good distance compared to a slurry of cement too... again allowing access to the worst parts of the fire.

they already have foam-type stuff to smother... which I'm sure is all-around better than a cement slurry.. it smothers, can be shot a good distance, and probably weighs a Massive amount less...

How would you go about fighting a fire with cement slurry?
just pour it into a building, and hope it creeps over to where it's needed?

it couldn't be sprayed, or shot..

And, additionally... any building structure, especially one damaged by fire, might buckle from the additional weight such an ammount of slurry might add..

that's on top of somehow having a decent supply of the stuff on hand to fight random fires...

Water flows nice and easy, and we have Massive flowing supplies of it...
cement slurry would need to be mixed from heavy bags, and it would be unwieldy and of limited supply.

better to use what they already use.. Which is water and other foams/chemicals.

The cheapest foam I came across cost at least 100 USD/10 kg, it expanded 2-3 times by volume when contact with water so you need to pay at least 300 USD to cover the same area as one cubic meter of concrete which only costed around 100 USD, leave alone a cement slurry which is mush cheaper (let see.. normal concrete are consist of 40 percent cement, 30 percent sand and 30 percent rock and water, it cost you 100 USD, cement slurry consist of 20 percent cement and the rest is water so you should pay 30 USD maximum for one cubic volume). That is why you never see a large scale fire fighting with foam (except in the most extreme case such as air plane crash). Cement slurry allow you to apply the efficiency of fire fighting chemical in a mush larger scale such as community fire break out or wildfire.

And contrary to your belief, cement can be pump. How do you think they transport the concrete when building skyscraper tower?

I'm aware.. But I doubt it can be sprayed or shot over any substantial distance.

No they don't carried to top bag-by-bag and they didn't mix it up there, they ask a cement truck to pump it up, using specialized tube. Now slurry is mush more watery than concrete and also lighter because there is no rock and sand, you should be able to shoot it the same way as water without mush trouble or if you really worried about cleaning your truck, use a cement truck and connect it with your water shooter.

It wouldn't flow as fast as water, and won't "shoot" near as far if at all.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
suttichart.denpruektham
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3/7/2013 5:02:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 1:40:48 AM, Beginner wrote:
It depends on the slurry's mass & density.

Exactly, slurry is not a concrete or grout, you can make it as thin as water if you have to. Your goal is to transport cement particle to obstruct the flow of oxygen in the fire, you don't need to make it to a smooth finish which is a common idea condition.

In fact you can try this yourself, buy one kg of OPC type 1 and mix it with 5 liter water, you will found that the slurry will have water level of consistency.

and thanks for the support Beginner
sadolite
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3/10/2013 2:36:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
If you really really really want to know if cement slurry is good for putting out fires, "sell the idea" to the fire dept. If they buy it, you will have your answer. Practicality and the free market always determine whether or not something is a good idea without fail.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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3/11/2013 12:01:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/10/2013 2:36:12 PM, sadolite wrote:
If you really really really want to know if cement slurry is good for putting out fires, "sell the idea" to the fire dept. If they buy it, you will have your answer. Practicality and the free market always determine whether or not something is a good idea without fail.

I really did think about it. But the cost of this deal is too high, first I need to have some professor in civil engineering or something along the line, do some study about possibility of the product (take a year at least), and possibly have him presented this project to the people in authority (a lot of money involved). I may also have to buy off some politicians to make sure the deal goes. Then a lot of gifts and dinners to maintain "relationship" with the fire dept. Might as well buying my own truck and team, the govt people hate to do anything themselves, especially if it is new and... pff