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Hydrogen vs Electric vs Other

Quadrunner
Posts: 3,481
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4/4/2016 3:08:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
What do y'all think.

Internal combustion is still the most convenient, highest range, affordable, and cool, but also the most polluting, and least efficient.

Hybrids - They should be awesome, but they just aren't yet, not at an affordable price. Decent efficiency at a good price. The most cost effective option for people that drive a lot.

Fuel cells are the most efficient, have a longer range (over 100-300+ miles) then electric, and are middle of the road when it comes to affordability. I'm really excited to see how this tech progresses, as its already way ahead of any electric alternative as a commuter car.

Electrics, well? You can charge them in your home, so that's pretty cool. They have really high performance to on the really expensive models. You have to sacrifice an arm and a leg to get any range though, so if you are a commoner like myself you'd only own your battery electric as a grocery getter, and require a secondary vehicle for any trips, or awesome adventures. I wouldn't mind having an BEV, but for the money I think I'd go elsewhere until batteries get cheaper.
xus00HAY
Posts: 1,489
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4/6/2016 2:06:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Buy an electric car and one of those generators that looks like a small trailer.
You can drive about town with electricity only. On a long trip hook up the generator.
wuliheron
Posts: 105
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8/1/2016 5:01:28 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Its now possible for your car to include a small shoebox sized device that uses solar power to extract carbon from the atmosphere and make fuel while it sits in the parking lot. When money does all the driving nobody is steering and everybody is simply waiting for the fundamental technology to be explored before investing billions. Ideally, graphene supercapacitors would have close to the maximum storage capacity, be virtually indestructible, and can already be added to the inside of every panel on a car without adding significant weight. They are also as green as it gets and the equivalent of throwing leaves on the ground. I would estimate at least five years before they start coming on the market, but already physicists have discovered how to make incredibly powerful motors of any kind you can imagine dirt cheap.
Quadrunner
Posts: 3,481
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9/13/2016 8:43:44 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 4/6/2016 2:06:38 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
Buy an electric car and one of those generators that looks like a small trailer.
You can drive about town with electricity only. On a long trip hook up the generator.

Actually that sounds like a great idea.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,932
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9/18/2016 4:42:19 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
We always want a sexy high tech solution, but in the end it is going to come down to conservation. Smaller vehicles and smarter urban planning as opposed to smarter devices. That means designing cities so that driving becomes less necessary.
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Quadrunner
Posts: 3,481
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9/19/2016 6:39:49 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 9/18/2016 4:42:19 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
We always want a sexy high tech solution, but in the end it is going to come down to conservation. Smaller vehicles and smarter urban planning as opposed to smarter devices. That means designing cities so that driving becomes less necessary.

I usually think of simple designs with high functionality and a solid maintenance procedure to be my top priorities in a vehicle. High Tech is largely a hype term in this industry, as any progression usually only arises from changes in pricing points as technology that has long existed becomes more affordable. Industrial Engineers I swear, are the most influential of the whole bunch when it comes to what makes it to your hands.
kevin24018
Posts: 3,008
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9/19/2016 7:24:40 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
consider what it takes to make the batteries for electric cars, what countries the resources come from, impact on the environment, impact of disposal etc etc, electric isn't as good as you think looking at the whole picture, fuel cells with solar augmentation maybe the closest practical option to the standard combustion engine I think.
BobTheRocket2 wrote:
Arguing with a liberal is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what, it's going to knock over the pieces, crap all over the board, and strut around like it's victorious.

"Beware the engineers of society, I say, who would make everyone in all the world equal. Opportunity should be equal, must be equal, but achievement must remain individual.
- Drizzt Do'Urden"
Quadrunner
Posts: 3,481
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10/9/2016 4:27:06 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 9/19/2016 7:24:40 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
consider what it takes to make the batteries for electric cars, what countries the resources come from, impact on the environment, impact of disposal etc etc, electric isn't as good as you think looking at the whole picture, fuel cells with solar augmentation maybe the closest practical option to the standard combustion engine I think.

The main thing fuel cells have got going against them is infrastructure. Japan our butts already on them though....You heard of the Toyota Mirai? Compared to electric its amazingly competitive in a smaller country where you don't have to worry about gas stations on the epic road trip.
mpu
Posts: 3
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10/10/2016 7:44:30 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
I have recently designed and built a solid state battery about the same size as a 45kg gas bottle with a storage capacity of 100kW. With my design, it is possible to build a 250kW battery, but of course the bigger the battery, the heavier for handling. But, can be trailerised as a 250kW would weigh 500kgs, which would be ideal on a huge farm which can be charged from solar, wind, etc. It is a single unit battery, not made up of thousand's of smaller batteries. And certainly not Lithium. The design is simple and cheap enough to construct, can be made both cylindrical and cubicle, especially for grid stabilization and back up storage. Has no expensive anodes and cathodes, has long life and low temperature usage, uses everyday 'off the shelf' components, and a built in inverter if necessary. Can be used standing upright or lying on it's side. I can see this being hugely competitive due to it's low cost and storage capacity. Considering what other manufacturers charge per kW, which appears to be collaborative due to their exuberant pricing structures, my battery will make it more affordable for everyday households, agricultural, commercial, industrial and grid storage and stabilization. Our expected retail per kW will be less than half of existing rates. It can also be charged while being used. Ideal for renewable energy applications where the load is on the battery, not the source. Also has the potential to be used in EV's. I am from NZ, but looking for a serious partner to manufacture in USA.
kevin24018
Posts: 3,008
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10/10/2016 12:48:45 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 10/9/2016 4:27:06 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 9/19/2016 7:24:40 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
consider what it takes to make the batteries for electric cars, what countries the resources come from, impact on the environment, impact of disposal etc etc, electric isn't as good as you think looking at the whole picture, fuel cells with solar augmentation maybe the closest practical option to the standard combustion engine I think.

The main thing fuel cells have got going against them is infrastructure. Japan our butts already on them though....You heard of the Toyota Mirai? Compared to electric its amazingly competitive in a smaller country where you don't have to worry about gas stations on the epic road trip.

I had not heard of that car, erf msrp $58,491 I think as alternative fuel cars lower in price, the standard internal combustion will get better gas mileage with reduced emissions to make the others only attractive to the environmentalist and wealthy.
BobTheRocket2 wrote:
Arguing with a liberal is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what, it's going to knock over the pieces, crap all over the board, and strut around like it's victorious.

"Beware the engineers of society, I say, who would make everyone in all the world equal. Opportunity should be equal, must be equal, but achievement must remain individual.
- Drizzt Do'Urden"
lannan13
Posts: 23,297
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12/16/2016 3:32:02 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
I'm not really a fan of Hydrogen fuel cells. The main issue is they are very combustable and one car wreck can kill a lot of people if they were using a fuel cell car.
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Quadrunner
Posts: 3,481
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2/18/2017 12:58:46 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 10/10/2016 12:48:45 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/9/2016 4:27:06 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 9/19/2016 7:24:40 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
consider what it takes to make the batteries for electric cars, what countries the resources come from, impact on the environment, impact of disposal etc etc, electric isn't as good as you think looking at the whole picture, fuel cells with solar augmentation maybe the closest practical option to the standard combustion engine I think.

The main thing fuel cells have got going against them is infrastructure. Japan our butts already on them though....You heard of the Toyota Mirai? Compared to electric its amazingly competitive in a smaller country where you don't have to worry about gas stations on the epic road trip.

I had not heard of that car, erf msrp $58,491 I think as alternative fuel cars lower in price, the standard internal combustion will get better gas mileage with reduced emissions to make the others only attractive to the environmentalist and wealthy.

In terms of just having the technology available, not actually what I'm shopping for, I think its beneficial for our nation be diversified. If we have to pull sanctions on someone, and take some hits ourselves, its nice to know that we aren't totally dependent on oil, so prices will stabilize in a more reasonable fashion. This is why I talk to people about "green" things as alternative energy, and view them more so in the perspective of national security. To be blunt about it, I think that's all green is in America, an excuse to diversify the energy sector in a time where we were dependent on some not so nice people for our life blood.

Of course the public swallows it hook line and sinker, and its a good cause to live conservatively too. The main thing I see in alternative energy though, is stability, plan B, a good way to slow down the use of our own reserves, compete with them, and keep prices low.
kevin24018
Posts: 3,008
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2/20/2017 2:37:47 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 2/18/2017 12:58:46 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:48:45 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/9/2016 4:27:06 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 9/19/2016 7:24:40 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
consider what it takes to make the batteries for electric cars, what countries the resources come from, impact on the environment, impact of disposal etc etc, electric isn't as good as you think looking at the whole picture, fuel cells with solar augmentation maybe the closest practical option to the standard combustion engine I think.

The main thing fuel cells have got going against them is infrastructure. Japan our butts already on them though....You heard of the Toyota Mirai? Compared to electric its amazingly competitive in a smaller country where you don't have to worry about gas stations on the epic road trip.

I had not heard of that car, erf msrp $58,491 I think as alternative fuel cars lower in price, the standard internal combustion will get better gas mileage with reduced emissions to make the others only attractive to the environmentalist and wealthy.

In terms of just having the technology available, not actually what I'm shopping for, I think its beneficial for our nation be diversified. If we have to pull sanctions on someone, and take some hits ourselves, its nice to know that we aren't totally dependent on oil, so prices will stabilize in a more reasonable fashion. This is why I talk to people about "green" things as alternative energy, and view them more so in the perspective of national security. To be blunt about it, I think that's all green is in America, an excuse to diversify the energy sector in a time where we were dependent on some not so nice people for our life blood.

Of course the public swallows it hook line and sinker, and its a good cause to live conservatively too. The main thing I see in alternative energy though, is stability, plan B, a good way to slow down the use of our own reserves, compete with them, and keep prices low.

that's a great idea, I actually hadn't thought about it in those terms, but that actually makes sense, all that is ever pushed is the "green" narrative which I think is mostly false. As a backup plan, that makes a whole lot of sense.
BobTheRocket2 wrote:
Arguing with a liberal is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what, it's going to knock over the pieces, crap all over the board, and strut around like it's victorious.

"Beware the engineers of society, I say, who would make everyone in all the world equal. Opportunity should be equal, must be equal, but achievement must remain individual.
- Drizzt Do'Urden"