LM classic: Round 1 and Round 2

Teams:

#1. Logical-Master

1) Revan (StarWars Knights of the Old Republic)
2) Sora (Kingdom hearts II)
3) Spider-Man (616 Universe).
4) Batman.
5) Amazo (base form) (Justice League animated series version).

#2. Mongeese

1. Link, Hero of Twilight (http://zelda.wikia.com......) (street level character)
2. Yami Yugi / Yugi Muto (http://yugioh.wikia.com......, http://yugioh.wikia.com......)
3. Seto Kaiba (http://yugioh.wikia.com......)
4. Kirby (http://www.kirbykirbykirby.com......) (street level character)
5. Midna (imp form) (http://zelda.wikia.com......)

#3. Yraelz

#1. Emma Frost
#2. Sephiroth
#3. Black Alice
#4. Vash(w/o awesome weapon)
#5. Sentry(Robert Reynor).

#4. MTGandP

#1. Cable
#2. Wolverine
#3. Superman
#4.Onslaught
#5.Wonder Woman

#5. ClockWork ("will be unable to participate between the 6th and the 16th")

1)Darkseid
2)The Green Lantern (John Stewart)
3) Apocalypse
4)The Green Arrow
5)Hiro Nakamura

#6. patsox834

1) Buckethead.
2) Storm.
3)Mewtwo.
4) Spawn
5) Bugs Bunny

#7. Mongoose

1)Special Agent Leroy Jethro Gibbs (NCIS)
2) Master Hand ( Crazy Hand if allowed) (Super Smash Bros. series)
3)Ganondorf (Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess)
4)James Bond (Movies)
5) Agent K (Men in Black)

#8. feverish

1)Predator,
2)Boba Fett,
3)Dracula,
4)Iron Man,
5. Monkey (Sun Wukong the monkey king)

#9. Ragnar_Rahl

1)Sergeant Sousuke Sagara of Full MetalPanic
2)Oba Rahl of the Sword of Truth series.
3)The conscious Taxxon Hive structure constructed in the alternate future in Animorphs number 7
4) Emperor Jagang of the Sword of Truth series.
5)Ramza Beoulve of the original Final Fantasy Tactics, as a Ch. 4 squire,, all abilities maxed out, present abilies set as: Guts, Math Skill, MP switch, "two swords", move-mp-up, equipment as: Excalibur, Chaos Blade, Thief Hat, Robe of Lords, Angel Ring.

#10.Puck

1) Deadpool
2) Sage
3) Mr Sinister
4)Spiral
5) Engineer

#11.Kefka

1)Kefka
2) Anima from FFX
3)Demon Eyes Kyo from the manga Samurai Deeper kyo
4) Itachi
5) Guts (Berserk)

#12.iamdragon

1. A rock.

2. An atom.

3. mongeese (UTW participant.)

4. Logical-Master (UTW participant.)

5. MTGandP (judge.)

#13.sherlockmethod

1. Hannibal King
2. Hawkeye
3. Ghost Rider
4. Doctor Doom
5. Deadshot (

#14.ToastOfDestiny

1) Kabbaji (Prince of Tennis)
2) Jean Grey (X-Men).
3) Doomsday (Marvel)
4) Haru Glory (Rave Master)
5) Northstar (X-Men)

#15. rougeagent21

1) Sonic The Hedgehog
2) Brit from Image Comics
3) Taboo from SSB
4) Demon King from Fire Emblem 8
5) The Incredible Hulk

#16. acer

1. House (street level)
2. Byakuia (BLEACH)
3. Meta Knight (Street level)
4. Kakashi
5. Ichigo (BLEACH)

#17. Usafkid

1) Cyclops (Xmen)
2) Green Lantern (not John Stewart)
3) Flash
4) The Flaming Torch (FF)
5) Daredevil

Round 2 matchups:

A2: Yraelz

VS

B4: acer

C15: iamdragon

VS

D14: mongeese

E13: feverish

VS

F9: Patsox834

G10 usakid1121

VS

H5 Kefka

I11 Ragnar_Rahl

VS

J3 Puck

K12 MtGranP

VS

L8 Sherlockemethod

M7 mongoose

VS

N6 Clockwork

P16 Logical-Master

VS

[Undetermined]

ROUND 1 MATCH:

R17 ToastofDestiny

VS

S1 Rougeagent21

I will actually be using a real tournament bracket after the single round 1 match is done, but this is just to give everyone a heads up on who/what they will be up against.


SPECIAL NOTE:

There may possibly be disputes over whether or not certain characters adhere to the rules. That is perfectly fine as the rules dictate that debaters are allowed to make arguments based on violations of the rules.

DEBATE ROUND RULES:

Rule #1: The PRO side must challenge his/her opponent by whatever deadline is posted for a round to have started. If they don't, they automatically forfeit the debate.

Rule #2: If any debater forfeits 2 of the rounds within the debate, they automatically forfeit the debate. If both debaters forfeit 2 rounds, the winner is whoever did it last.

Rule #3: If the CON side does not accept the challenge within 3 days of it being posted by PRO, that person automatically forfeits the debate.

Rule #4: The web address of each debate must be posted by CON in the forum thread named "Completed Debates Round X" (in this forum) as SOON as the debate is finished. The post must include the web address (the link), and the judges.

Rule #5: If you are a judge that is biased one way or the other for any of the topics and/or competitors, you must report it to the Tournament Director immediately.

Rule #6: Each judge will make their decision, with an RFD, by messaging the debate.org profile named "Logical-Master."

Rule #7: All decisions made by judges must be reported within 1 week of the debate being concluded. Failure to do so will result in a replacement, and possible suspension of judging. (anyone that is going to be gone should message me ASAP)

Rule #8: When challenging your opponent, fill in the "Start a new Debate" page as follows:

Opponent: your opponents profile (it would probably be easier to find it and just challenge them from their profile page)

Topic: LM Classic: [insert user name] vs [insert opponent's user name] .

Position: You will be pro if you fill this out.

Category: Entertainment

Rounds: 4

Voting Period: Indefinitely

Time to Argue: *72 hours

Argument Max: 8,000 characters

Judges:

#1. patsox834

#2. wjmelements

#3. rougeagent21

#4. MTGandP

#5. burningpuppies

#6. pcmbrown

#7. feverish

#8. ccstate4peat

It would probably be a good idea to ask the judges for their voting paradigm.

Judges for Round 1 and 2 matches will be determined ASAP tomorrow.

UPDATED RULES LIST:

1) The winner shall receive $100 via paypal.

2) It shall purely be an Ultimate Team war tournament (this debate is an example of one: http://www.debate.org............ )

3) The judge who is voted by the tournament participants as the best and most dedicated shall receive $50 via paypal (this is to insure that judging doesn't go sour, like previous tournaments)

4) The tournament shall entirely be single elimination (although you are allowed to have a substitute to debate for you when you are not available to debate. Granted, this substitute receives half of your winnings and cannot join the tournament on his/her own)

5) Each participant must choose their team in advance and must stick to arguing in favor of that team during the entire tournament. Now since I shall be participating, I shall either list my team publicly so that me knowing what everyone else chooses for their team via PM won't be to my advantage OR I can hopefully get someone else (who isn't necessarily participating---maybe a judge) to file all of the submissions for the teams.

6) In terms of choosing teams, it is first come first served.

7) Standard Ultimate Team War rules apply, although the following characters and characters who possess certain traits are banned:

-Dr. Strange
-Dr. Fate
-Parallax
-Silver Surfer
-Faust
-Any character who is regarded as a god (by god, I mean characters like Dr. Manhattan, the Living Tribunal, Thanos with the infinity gauntlet, Adam Warlocke, Galactus, etc).
-Any character from Dragon Ball Z (or GT) or Yu Yu Hakusho
-SuperMan Prime or Super Boy Prime
-Any character from the 5th dimension (Batmite is a good example)
-The Speedforce cannot be used.
-The Ultimate Nullifier ray is not allowed.
-Shinigami's from Death Note are not allowed.
-Father (Full Metal Alchemist Manga)
-Hohenheim (FMA manga) (though they are probably technically banned, due to previous rules)
-Thanos
-Squirrel Girl (for obvious reasons :D )
-Darth Nihilus
-All Characters from Saint Seya
-SailorMoon Characters

8) All battles shall take place in an indestructible version of New York City. Leaving the fighting area constitutes as defeat.

9) Prep time is only allowed if both debaters agree at the start. In case it is agreed upon, both teams shall get 1 day of preparation time.

10) Each debater must at least have two street level characters on their team (in other words, people like Batman, Spider-Man, Daredevil, the punisher, wolverine, Venom, Nightwing,Kenshin Himurha, Gambit, Vash the Stampede, Snake from Metal Gear solid, Master Chief, Link etc) Basically, people who spend their time dealing with local adversaries AND/OR are essentially on a human level. Lelouch Lamperouge is an example of someone who is human level. People like Superman are not street level.

11) The no limits fallacy is considered valid.

12) Being knocked out, rendered unusable, or killed is considered defeat. People who are knocked out, rendered unusable or killed cannot be used any more during a match.

13) No Time Travel

14) All battles take place in an indestructible version of New York City, with no humans populated (though there are rats). No structural damage is possible.

15) Teleporting out of NYC is prohibited.

16) All debaters are free to argue against their opponent's interpretation of their characters or that their opponent's team is not following the rules (such as two mandatory street levelers or that one person on their team may be on par with Dr. manhattan or anyone along those lines). Whether or not this argument leads one to concluding certain characters on their opponents team should be disqualified is entirely up to the debater as well as the judges (who are merely voting off of who provides the more compelling argument).

17) After each debate round, the determined winner shall be able to choose one member of his/her defeated opponent's team and keep said character as an optional team member. However, the 5 man team (with 2 street level members) quota shall still apply and changes changes in said team must be confirmed before said debaters following round begins.

Should we clarify the respective canons we are using for our characters here or within debates?

This should be interesting. Hmm. Considering that I will be facing off Ganondorf in my first match up, does that mean that we're going with the plan of Ganon's weakness being hidden of somewhere in NYC? Does my team know where the Sword is located?

I am also interesting in the prep time discussed briefly earlier; do we still assume that no prep time is allowed unless mutually agreed otherwise, and that if there is no prep time, the combatants only know that they have five enemies to defeat? Awareness of enemy powers will probably play a substantial role in the debates.

In any case, I'm interested in Mongoose's team choice, but as far as his secret intelligence members go, I think that the Book of Oa should serve a suitable counter. People always underestimate the Green Lantern XD

Also, are "unkillable" characters allowed under the rules? Two of my characters have "immortality" listed as a trait, but both of them only posses this power to the extent that they do not die from old age; however, are truly immortal characters still permitted?

Anyone got any ideas, based on team members only, who might win this thing? =D

Great. In Round 2, I get to fight a rock, an atom, MtGandP, Logical-Master, and myself.

Where do both teams start, anyways?

At 7/21/2009 11:30:36 AM, mongeese wrote:
Great. In Round 2, I get to fight a rock, an atom, MtGandP, Logical-Master, and myself.

You think that's awesome? I have to beat a team with the Hulk (in the first round, joy), and if I win face L-M himself.

Oh, I know my team could beat the Hulk, easy.

At 7/21/2009 11:30:36 AM, mongeese wrote:
Great. In Round 2, I get to fight a rock, an atom, MtGandP, Logical-Master, and myself.

You like, eh?

At 7/21/2009 11:30:36 AM, mongeese wrote:
Great. In Round 2, I get to fight a rock, an atom, MtGandP, Logical-Master, and myself.

wouldnt your strategies be foreseen immediately?

At 7/21/2009 12:13:02 PM, mongeese wrote:
Oh, I know my team could beat the Hulk, easy.

Change of Heart -> Tribute Hulk to summon Ra -> /debate? I'm pretty sure you can't use the Shadow Realm, it's teleporting out of NY.

@dragon
Splitting an atom is ineffective, the other team just has to hop inside an indestructable building.

I'm going to make a judging paradigm thread.

I am not running this tournament, of course, but here is what I would say for each of these.

At 7/21/2009 10:46:11 AM, Clockwork wrote:
This should be interesting. Hmm. Considering that I will be facing off Ganondorf in my first match up, does that mean that we're going with the plan of Ganon's weakness being hidden of somewhere in NYC? Does my team know where the Sword is located?

It does exist in NYC, and is outdoors (not inside an indestructible bomb shelter with no door or something like that). Your team does not know where it is.

I am also interesting in the prep time discussed briefly earlier; do we still assume that no prep time is allowed unless mutually agreed otherwise, and that if there is no prep time, the combatants only know that they have five enemies to defeat? Awareness of enemy powers will probably play a substantial role in the debates.

Assume no prep time unless mutually agreed. Combatants have full knowledge of their enemy and potential strategies, as the combatants know everything that the facilitator (you) knows.

In any case, I'm interested in Mongoose's team choice, but as far as his secret intelligence members go, I think that the Book of Oa should serve a suitable counter. People always underestimate the Green Lantern XD

Your team wins. (I wanted Apocalypse! Thief!)

At 7/21/2009 12:10:40 PM, ToastOfDestiny wrote:

At 7/21/2009 11:30:36 AM, mongeese wrote:
Great. In Round 2, I get to fight a rock, an atom, MtGandP, Logical-Master, and myself.

You think that's awesome? I have to beat a team with the Hulk (in the first round, joy), and if I win face L-M himself.

Jean Grey and Doomsday could each individually beat the Hulk. And L-M's team could be better. Just be glad you're not facing ClockWork.

Question: How do we start each battle? Do we specify our characters first, or do we start fighting immediately?

The instigator should probably introduce both sets of team members in his R1, seeing as we can't change them. That way all four rounds can be used for debate.

I know I'm posting a bit too often, but I'm bored and sick at home, so I have some questions for anyone applicable to answer them.

@ LM: When you designate KH2 as the canon for Sora, is KH2 the same thing as Chain of Memories?

@ Yraelz: Is Vash the character from Star Trek or from Vash the Stampede?

@ Acer: You're using House as in Gregory House?

@ Patsox: Buckethead the guitarist?

And one last note to rogueagent, you're thinking of Tabuu, not Taboo.

<"@ Patsox: Buckethead the guitarist?">

Indeed.

At 7/21/2009 10:46:11 AM, Clockwork wrote:
This should be interesting. Hmm. Considering that I will be facing off Ganondorf in my first match up, does that mean that we're going with the plan of Ganon's weakness being hidden of somewhere in NYC? Does my team know where the Sword is located?

Personally, I think Ganon can beaten without reliance on the mastersword, but I'll still allow said rule provided the deemed character is just one a peculiar weakness (such as Ganon only being killable with the mastersword). And no, your team does not know where the sword is located; they'd have to find it.

Also, try to keep the 13th rule in mind. I'd imagine that even without the master sword, Ganondorf could at very least be subdued provided you offered the proper strategy.

I am also interesting in the prep time discussed briefly earlier; do we still assume that no prep time is allowed unless mutually agreed otherwise, and that if there is no prep time, the combatants only know that they have five enemies to defeat? Awareness of enemy powers will probably play a substantial role in the debates.

MTGrandP answered this area correctly, so stick with that.

At 7/20/2009 4:35:40 PM, feverish wrote:
Should we clarify the respective canons we are using for our characters here or within debates?

Clarify that in your debate comment sections if necessary. This is provided you don't change them.

At 7/21/2009 1:25:33 PM, Clockwork wrote:
I know I'm posting a bit too often, but I'm bored and sick at home, so I have some questions for anyone applicable to answer them.

@ LM: When you designate KH2 as the canon for Sora, is KH2 the same thing as Chain of Memories?

Kingdom Hearts I, Chain of Memories and Kingdom Hearts II are all part of the same universe, so yes. :D

@ Yraelz: Is Vash the character from Star Trek or from Vash the Stampede?

From Trigun.

At 7/21/2009 12:54:52 PM, MTGandP wrote:

At 7/21/2009 12:10:40 PM, ToastOfDestiny wrote:

At 7/21/2009 11:30:36 AM, mongeese wrote:
Great. In Round 2, I get to fight a rock, an atom, MtGandP, Logical-Master, and myself.

You think that's awesome? I have to beat a team with the Hulk (in the first round, joy), and if I win face L-M himself.

Jean Grey and Doomsday could each individually beat the Hulk. And L-M's team could be better. Just be glad you're not facing ClockWork.


Question: How do we start each battle? Do we specify our characters first, or do we start fighting immediately?

What do you mean by "specify?"

acer is using Dr. Gregory House, yes.

I think he means explain the characters.

I started my debate by introducing the characters and posting a preliminary strategy.

At 7/21/2009 12:39:12 PM, ToastOfDestiny wrote:
@dragon
Splitting an atom is ineffective, the other team just has to hop inside an indestructable building.

Good luck splitting an atom?

At 7/21/2009 12:39:12 PM, ToastOfDestiny wrote:

At 7/21/2009 12:13:02 PM, mongeese wrote:
Oh, I know my team could beat the Hulk, easy.

Change of Heart -> Tribute Hulk to summon Ra -> /debate? I'm pretty sure you can't use the Shadow Realm, it's teleporting out of NY.

You think I'd be using two duelists if I didn't know what I was doing?

At 7/21/2009 5:32:12 PM, iamadragon wrote:

At 7/21/2009 12:39:12 PM, ToastOfDestiny wrote:
@dragon
Splitting an atom is ineffective, the other team just has to hop inside an indestructable building.

Good luck splitting an atom?

I was just thinking you'd split the atom. Nuke the city and the opponent's team.

Yeah, one could actually just stand behind a building to avoid that, due to the nature of the battlefield.

ATTN: wjlements and MTGandP have randomly been assigned to judge the single R1 debate.

Also, due to the nature of judging, I may reopen t judging sign ups, allow more judges and simply place the highest number of judged debates as being criteria necessary to be eligible to win the judging award. I'll give it some thought.