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United airlines issue: why capitalism is bad

Capitalistslave
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4/12/2017 9:21:49 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
What happened with united airlines recently is a perfect example of capitalism in all of its glory.

United Airlines wanted to get a little more profit so badly, that they overbook flights so that they can get more people to buy their tickets. They don't care that in the process, some people may not be able to get where they need to in the time they needed to. Businesses don't give a damn about you in most cases. They just want a profit.

This is why pretty much EVERY airline overbooks: capitalism gives them incentive to screw people over in order to maximize profits.
Jonbonbon
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4/12/2017 4:29:13 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/12/2017 9:21:49 AM, Capitalistslave wrote:
What happened with united airlines recently is a perfect example of capitalism in all of its glory.

United Airlines wanted to get a little more profit so badly, that they overbook flights so that they can get more people to buy their tickets. They don't care that in the process, some people may not be able to get where they need to in the time they needed to. Businesses don't give a damn about you in most cases. They just want a profit.

This is why pretty much EVERY airline overbooks: capitalism gives them incentive to screw people over in order to maximize profits.

Capitalism is the exact reason this doesn't happen all the time. A business has to act in the interest of consumers to make a profit. I mean, you can scheme for a little bit, but no business can grow or make money for long periods of time by intentionally cheating customers. The world of business is too transparent now.

Just for fun, let's say United did this on purpose: now that everyone has decided not to fly United, all the other airline companies are going to explode in business, and United is going to lose millions. That would make their management team a bunch of idiots who have no idea how to run a business. The board of directors is going to make sure that whoever did that is fired (because their income depends on people not doing that), and the company is going to be changed anyway.

So it's a perfect example of how capitalism is going to fix this and make sure other airlines take steps to prevent it from happening to their customers. The public is acutely aware.
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qwzx
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4/12/2017 5:37:01 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/12/2017 9:21:49 AM, Capitalistslave wrote:
What happened with united airlines recently is a perfect example of capitalism in all of its glory.

United Airlines wanted to get a little more profit so badly, that they overbook flights so that they can get more people to buy their tickets. They don't care that in the process, some people may not be able to get where they need to in the time they needed to. Businesses don't give a damn about you in most cases. They just want a profit.

This is why pretty much EVERY airline overbooks: capitalism gives them incentive to screw people over in order to maximize profits.

What are you even talking about? Capitalism was what saved the day! The moment after the issue exploded across the media, a lost of customers demanded refunds and refused to buy tickets from United. They lost 1 billion dollars! This is a perfect example of how the market enacts self-policing to stop such acts.
Capitalistslave
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4/12/2017 8:38:06 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/12/2017 4:29:13 PM, Jonbonbon wrote:

Capitalism is the exact reason this doesn't happen all the time. A business has to act in the interest of consumers to make a profit. I mean, you can scheme for a little bit, but no business can grow or make money for long periods of time by intentionally cheating customers. The world of business is too transparent now.

Just for fun, let's say United did this on purpose: now that everyone has decided not to fly United, all the other airline companies are going to explode in business, and United is going to lose millions. That would make their management team a bunch of idiots who have no idea how to run a business. The board of directors is going to make sure that whoever did that is fired (because their income depends on people not doing that), and the company is going to be changed anyway.

So it's a perfect example of how capitalism is going to fix this and make sure other airlines take steps to prevent it from happening to their customers. The public is acutely aware.

But capitalism is the reason it happened to begin with(because the business saw that they could cheat people out of tickets and get more money off of that. Again EVERY airline does this). And I wouldn't call how customers react to it as a result of capitalism, but as a result of a market economy. Market economy is not synonymous with capitalism since what I promote is Market Socialism. Market socialism is a market economy still. With Market socialism, it likely would have been the case that these companies wouldn't have tried this scheme to begin with.
Capitalistslave
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4/12/2017 8:42:14 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/12/2017 5:37:01 PM, qwzx wrote:

What are you even talking about? Capitalism was what saved the day! The moment after the issue exploded across the media, a lost of customers demanded refunds and refused to buy tickets from United. They lost 1 billion dollars! This is a perfect example of how the market enacts self-policing to stop such acts.

This is not a result of capitalism though. This is a result of a market economy. Market economy is not synonymous with capitalism. You can have market socialism for example. If, for example, this same thing happened in a market socialist economy where a socialist airline company did this, the same thing would happen where people would boycott, demand refunds, etc. However, the difference between market socialism and market capitalism, is the former won't result in companies doing this to begin with because a socialist business would pretty much always do what is in interest of the workers and other people, not just in the interest of a single individual who wants to make a profit. For example, a market socialist economy could be one in which worker coops are the primary mode of production, and I can't imagine a worker coop, or any other kind of cooperative doing what these airlines did.
Jonbonbon
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4/12/2017 8:51:09 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/12/2017 8:38:06 PM, Capitalistslave wrote:
At 4/12/2017 4:29:13 PM, Jonbonbon wrote:

Capitalism is the exact reason this doesn't happen all the time. A business has to act in the interest of consumers to make a profit. I mean, you can scheme for a little bit, but no business can grow or make money for long periods of time by intentionally cheating customers. The world of business is too transparent now.

Just for fun, let's say United did this on purpose: now that everyone has decided not to fly United, all the other airline companies are going to explode in business, and United is going to lose millions. That would make their management team a bunch of idiots who have no idea how to run a business. The board of directors is going to make sure that whoever did that is fired (because their income depends on people not doing that), and the company is going to be changed anyway.

So it's a perfect example of how capitalism is going to fix this and make sure other airlines take steps to prevent it from happening to their customers. The public is acutely aware.

But capitalism is the reason it happened to begin with(because the business saw that they could cheat people out of tickets and get more money off of that. Again EVERY airline does this).

That's an assumption. So your base reasoning is flawed. I know that you're a respectful, well-researched guy, but you're still looking at everything through the "capitalism is evil" lens, which causes problems in reasoning. I know that it's not uncommon for flights to be overbooked, but as someone with some knowledge of technology, it can be easily attributed to having tickets available on too many sites without the proper e-commerce programming to catch them and make sure no one got a ticket they shouldn't have.

And I wouldn't call how customers react to it as a result of capitalism, but as a result of a market economy. Market economy is not synonymous with capitalism since what I promote is Market Socialism. Market socialism is a market economy still. With Market socialism, it likely would have been the case that these companies wouldn't have tried this scheme to begin with.

Not a word about how a sound business is run? I didn't say that the public response was an act of capitalism. Not everything in my mind is tied to a battle between capitalism and socialism. The customer reaction wasn't caused by capitalism, socialism, or market economy. It was caused by people being pissed off at a crappy business decision made by lower level employees. It's just a human reaction.

What I actually said is that the response causes businesses to need to change to make sure they don't lose a billion dollars just because they didn't put in the time to guarantee customer satisfaction. Every business knows this, and every student studying business knows this. It's not difficult to see that it's not in the best interest of a business to cheat its customers. Even if they get away with it for a while, at some point a new business comes along and does it the right way. The business that acts the most in favor of its customers will knock the others off the pedestal. Customers are the most important thing a company has.
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Capitalistslave
Posts: 137
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4/13/2017 12:34:08 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/12/2017 8:51:09 PM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 4/12/2017 8:38:06 PM, Capitalistslave wrote:

But capitalism is the reason it happened to begin with(because the business saw that they could cheat people out of tickets and get more money off of that. Again EVERY airline does this).

That's an assumption. So your base reasoning is flawed. I know that you're a respectful, well-researched guy, but you're still looking at everything through the "capitalism is evil" lens, which causes problems in reasoning. I know that it's not uncommon for flights to be overbooked, but as someone with some knowledge of technology, it can be easily attributed to having tickets available on too many sites without the proper e-commerce programming to catch them and make sure no one got a ticket they shouldn't have.
Ok, well, it should be easy to figure that out within a few days. They could tell the person that they accidentally gave them a ticket that no longer has a seat for it, but they probably don't do this because they figure someone won't show up, and they want more money out of it, so they don't have an interest in telling someone that they gave them a ticket they shouldn't have.
And I wouldn't call how customers react to it as a result of capitalism, but as a result of a market economy. Market economy is not synonymous with capitalism since what I promote is Market Socialism. Market socialism is a market economy still. With Market socialism, it likely would have been the case that these companies wouldn't have tried this scheme to begin with.

Not a word about how a sound business is run? I didn't say that the public response was an act of capitalism. Not everything in my mind is tied to a battle between capitalism and socialism. The customer reaction wasn't caused by capitalism, socialism, or market economy. It was caused by people being pissed off at a crappy business decision made by lower level employees. It's just a human reaction.

What I actually said is that the response causes businesses to need to change to make sure they don't lose a billion dollars just because they didn't put in the time to guarantee customer satisfaction. Every business knows this, and every student studying business knows this. It's not difficult to see that it's not in the best interest of a business to cheat its customers. Even if they get away with it for a while, at some point a new business comes along and does it the right way. The business that acts the most in favor of its customers will knock the others off the pedestal. Customers are the most important thing a company has.
Well, yes, this is a result of a market economy. I just didn't word it properly. It's not a result of capitalism, either way.
triangle.128k
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4/13/2017 3:40:21 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/12/2017 9:21:49 AM, Capitalistslave wrote:
What happened with united airlines recently is a perfect example of capitalism in all of its glory.

United Airlines wanted to get a little more profit so badly, that they overbook flights so that they can get more people to buy their tickets. They don't care that in the process, some people may not be able to get where they need to in the time they needed to. Businesses don't give a damn about you in most cases. They just want a profit.

This is why pretty much EVERY airline overbooks: capitalism gives them incentive to screw people over in order to maximize profits.

Yes, that's why we must have communism instead.

Capitalism is so weak, instead of dragging a person out of an airplane we should drag people out of their house and send them away into the Gulag. There, we will force them to work in life-threatening living conditions, while a gun is being pointed towards them. We'll also randomly attack them, torture them, and starve them while they are forced into work.

If they say one word about anything, then they shall be killed.

Much better, am I right? Glory to the soviet motherland and to comrade Stalin, Lenin, and Marx!
Capitalistslave
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4/13/2017 5:32:18 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/13/2017 3:40:21 AM, triangle.128k wrote:

Yes, that's why we must have communism instead.

Capitalism is so weak, instead of dragging a person out of an airplane we should drag people out of their house and send them away into the Gulag. There, we will force them to work in life-threatening living conditions, while a gun is being pointed towards them. We'll also randomly attack them, torture them, and starve them while they are forced into work.

If they say one word about anything, then they shall be killed.

Much better, am I right? Glory to the soviet motherland and to comrade Stalin, Lenin, and Marx!

Given that your account says you're a republican, you are obviously being sarcastic. I don't know why I'm even giving you a response... Obviously anyone knows there are other alternatives to capitalism than what the Soviet Union had.
Capitalistslave
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4/13/2017 6:14:01 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
NOTE:

I am likely going to be voluntarily leaving ddo, possibly permanently. I'll have to think about it some more, but there's a chance you won't be seeing me around anymore. I'm for sure going to be taking a break from it for a while in order to pursue other things, such as possibly starting a youtube channel and focusing on my school work.

There are never enough people who vote on debates, this site seems to be very unpopular, and I don't know if I really want to continue being here. I'll give it some thought.

Just thought I'd post this here though, in case someone replies to something I said here and wonders why I don't reply back.
Fkkize
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4/13/2017 9:19:59 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/13/2017 3:40:21 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 4/12/2017 9:21:49 AM, Capitalistslave wrote:
What happened with united airlines recently is a perfect example of capitalism in all of its glory.

United Airlines wanted to get a little more profit so badly, that they overbook flights so that they can get more people to buy their tickets. They don't care that in the process, some people may not be able to get where they need to in the time they needed to. Businesses don't give a damn about you in most cases. They just want a profit.

This is why pretty much EVERY airline overbooks: capitalism gives them incentive to screw people over in order to maximize profits.

Yes, that's why we must have communism instead.

Capitalism is so weak, instead of dragging a person out of an airplane we should drag people out of their house and send them away into the Gulag. There, we will force them to work in life-threatening living conditions, while a gun is being pointed towards them. We'll also randomly attack them, torture them, and starve them while they are forced into work.

If they say one word about anything, then they shall be killed.

Much better, am I right? Glory to the soviet motherland and to comrade Stalin, Lenin, and Marx!

And you're next whitey.
TheMarketLibertarian
Posts: 366
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4/15/2017 6:38:24 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/12/2017 9:21:49 AM, Capitalistslave wrote:
What happened with united airlines recently is a perfect example of capitalism in all of its glory.

United Airlines wanted to get a little more profit so badly, that they overbook flights so that they can get more people to buy their tickets. They don't care that in the process, some people may not be able to get where they need to in the time they needed to. Businesses don't give a damn about you in most cases. They just want a profit.

This is why pretty much EVERY airline overbooks: capitalism gives them incentive to screw people over in order to maximize profits.

I'm not going top lie- though I am a Hard-Core Libertarian, and I believe that the profit motive is usually a good thing, there are certain instances that prove a fully 100% capitalist system could never work out well. Thus the reason I am a Minarchist and not an Anarchic-Capitalist.

However, I do not believe the solution is eliminating property rights or encroaching upon voluntary exchange. The solution is limited government protections of liberties.

Another example of how this turns out bad on occasions is circumcision. Doctors and the Medical Establishment know very well that circumcision is Genital Mutilation, destroys pleasure, and has no health benefits. But they continue to promote these quack studies because they are making too much money off of sexually mutilating baby boys.

As Adam Smith said:
""...men whose interest is never exactly the same with that of the public, who have generally an interest to deceive and even to oppress the public, and who accordingly have, upon many occasions, both deceived and oppressed it."
CosmoJarvis
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4/15/2017 6:51:01 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/12/2017 9:21:49 AM, Capitalistslave wrote:
What happened with united airlines recently is a perfect example of capitalism in all of its glory.

What happened with United Airlines was blatant misconduct and unnecessary violence against an innocent passenger. By no means in this a "perfect example of capitalism." United Airlines will likely be sued for their illegal misconduct by both the victim and the other passengers of the flight.
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Chang29
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4/15/2017 11:59:10 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Capitalism didn't pull the passenger off, that was a government thug. If the police had asked one question, "what person or property has been violated?" The police could have walked away and this would have not been an issue.

United feared more of being in violation of government rules (crew rest, crew seating) than passenger outrage. If not for BS rules, one member of the current crew could have done an extra flight. Anther option would be to have an extra crew person ride without a seat.
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dc0404
Posts: 287
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4/16/2017 12:52:58 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/12/2017 9:21:49 AM, Capitalistslave wrote:
What happened with united airlines recently is a perfect example of capitalism in all of its glory.

United Airlines wanted to get a little more profit so badly, that they overbook flights so that they can get more people to buy their tickets. They don't care that in the process, some people may not be able to get where they need to in the time they needed to. Businesses don't give a damn about you in most cases. They just want a profit.

This is why pretty much EVERY airline overbooks: capitalism gives them incentive to screw people over in order to maximize profits.

Ridiculous argument. And other forms would be free from corruption, greed, or worse? It's people that are the problem, not the government construct here. And in any other government construct, it may not be this particular issue, but it would be another. Now that United made this mistake, they will reap the short side of the law of supply and demand as demand will decrease for United as a result. It is critical for companies to do right and represent good value, if they do not, the market will take care of them and others will benefit. This is why capitalism actually works because it doesn't just reward the maximizing of profits genius, it rewards value and ethical practices as well.

DC
triangle.128k
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4/18/2017 6:26:21 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/13/2017 5:32:18 AM, Capitalistslave wrote:
At 4/13/2017 3:40:21 AM, triangle.128k wrote:

Yes, that's why we must have communism instead.

Capitalism is so weak, instead of dragging a person out of an airplane we should drag people out of their house and send them away into the Gulag. There, we will force them to work in life-threatening living conditions, while a gun is being pointed towards them. We'll also randomly attack them, torture them, and starve them while they are forced into work.

If they say one word about anything, then they shall be killed.

Much better, am I right? Glory to the soviet motherland and to comrade Stalin, Lenin, and Marx!

Given that your account says you're a republican, you are obviously being sarcastic. I don't know why I'm even giving you a response... Obviously anyone knows there are other alternatives to capitalism than what the Soviet Union had.

you're getting gulag'd for saying that.

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ElliottR
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4/26/2017 8:33:05 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Let's accept, for the sake of argument, that United Airlines did want that extra profit, and the events that followed was the result.

So to begin with, since this was the cause of it all, we have to answer the question, Why did United Airlines want the extra profit?

Well, firstly, as human beings, it is in our nature to want to keep what we have earned. It is in our nature to reap what we have sown. (Think about if this is true for you. If you are a rational human it will be.)

HOWEVER, United Airlines AREN'T allowed to keep what they've earned are they?

YOU and every business in the country AREN'T allowed to keep what you've earned are you?

Why?

You see, the Government comes along. They put a gun to your head and say, "GIVE us your money".

You and everybody else then has to, under the threat of force, give some of your money away.

BUT they don't say this money is loot, plunder or swag. They call it ........ Tax.

BUT remember, human nature is to want all that they deserve.

Oh and did I mention Freedom? It is also in a humans nature not to like walking around in chains.

SO, single-handedly, the government has created the perfect conditions, i.e. Heavy Regulation (Freedom) and Taxation (Appropriation), for every individual or business to do whatever they can, to keep as much as they can of the money they make. (The more unscrupulous the individual, the greater the lengths you will go to)

The solution?

There is only one social system that will allow you to keep ALL that you earn.

There is only one social system that will allow you freedom and NO chains.

That system is Laissez Faire Capitalism.

So, in answer to the original question.

No, Capitalism was not the cause. Socialism was the cause.

Capitalism is the solution.
dc0404
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4/27/2017 10:28:37 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 4/26/2017 8:33:05 PM, ElliottR wrote:
Let's accept, for the sake of argument, that United Airlines did want that extra profit, and the events that followed was the result.

So to begin with, since this was the cause of it all, we have to answer the question, Why did United Airlines want the extra profit?

Well, firstly, as human beings, it is in our nature to want to keep what we have earned. It is in our nature to reap what we have sown. (Think about if this is true for you. If you are a rational human it will be.)

HOWEVER, United Airlines AREN'T allowed to keep what they've earned are they?

YOU and every business in the country AREN'T allowed to keep what you've earned are you?

Why?

You see, the Government comes along. They put a gun to your head and say, "GIVE us your money".

You and everybody else then has to, under the threat of force, give some of your money away.

BUT they don't say this money is loot, plunder or swag. They call it ........ Tax.

BUT remember, human nature is to want all that they deserve.

Oh and did I mention Freedom? It is also in a humans nature not to like walking around in chains.

SO, single-handedly, the government has created the perfect conditions, i.e. Heavy Regulation (Freedom) and Taxation (Appropriation), for every individual or business to do whatever they can, to keep as much as they can of the money they make. (The more unscrupulous the individual, the greater the lengths you will go to)

The solution?

There is only one social system that will allow you to keep ALL that you earn.

There is only one social system that will allow you freedom and NO chains.

That system is Laissez Faire Capitalism.

So, in answer to the original question.

No, Capitalism was not the cause. Socialism was the cause.

Capitalism is the solution.

Agreed, capitalism is working and will work in this situation.

Capitalism will exact its toll on United Airlines for making some poor decisions, but capitalism IS the answer, not government regulation to avoid situations like this. United Airlines did the right thing in over booking these seats, as all airlines do. There is nothing wrong with this. In fact, the overbooking of seats and the high cost of first class seats (for those willing to pay them) actually subsidize the cost of coach seats so more people can afford to fly. We all know in most cases, it does not come to the situation we saw with UA. Rewind a few decades and you will find the entire airline industry was entirely government regulated and the prices were fixed. What occured is airlines competed on service but it only appealed to the rich because the rich were the only ones that could afford to fly under the government regulated and subsidized environment, where prices were extremely high to fly. Then government regulation was removed and airlines can now appeal to all kinds of consumers.... the individual that is looking for the cheapest way to get from point A to point B and is fine suffering in a middle coach seat, but also appealing to the person that can afford a more luxurious first class seat and its amenities. This is capitalism and this is good, it is business appealing to multiple consumers.

The contract we agree to with the airlines do allow them to remove people from planes, but the poor decision here on UA's part was they simply should of kept offering more until they got a volunteer. If they had offered a few thousand dollars or voucher, some hands would of went up and this could of been avoided.

As pointed out above, government regulation and subsidies only serve to make things more expensive. I wish people would understand this. That was the airline industry decades ago, healthcare today, along with tuition costs. Government is always the problem to higher costs and lower value. Whereas capitalism generally equates to lower costs and higher value.

DC
Sui_Generis
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5/31/2017 7:50:04 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 4/12/2017 9:21:49 AM, Capitalistslave wrote:
What happened with united airlines recently is a perfect example of capitalism in all of its glory.

United Airlines wanted to get a little more profit so badly, that they overbook flights so that they can get more people to buy their tickets. They don't care that in the process, some people may not be able to get where they need to in the time they needed to. Businesses don't give a damn about you in most cases. They just want a profit.

This is why pretty much EVERY airline overbooks: capitalism gives them incentive to screw people over in order to maximize profits.

...do you think overbooking is borne from a desire to screw people over? Overbooking isn't just to sell tickets... it's to make sure the plane is actually filled, since rarely do all ticket-buyers show up.

Anyway, wasn't the United Airlines issue started because of a last-minute need to have a UA employee board and take the flight? Not from overbooking directly?
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FanboyMctroll
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5/31/2017 4:13:01 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 4/12/2017 9:21:49 AM, Capitalistslave wrote:
What happened with united airlines recently is a perfect example of capitalism in all of its glory.

United Airlines wanted to get a little more profit so badly, that they overbook flights so that they can get more people to buy their tickets. They don't care that in the process, some people may not be able to get where they need to in the time they needed to. Businesses don't give a damn about you in most cases. They just want a profit.

This is why pretty much EVERY airline overbooks: capitalism gives them incentive to screw people over in order to maximize profits.

I agree 100% with you. It's called corporate greed. What's next, lets over book all movie theaters and restaurants and every other service to make sure we capitalize on maximum profit everywhere. It's just greed. I have no sympathy for United Airlines, I hope they get sued and people boycott the airline and they go out of business. I am certainly not ever going to use United.

I can't wait to be asked to leave from a movie theater for a sold out show after I already bought my ticket and spend another $50 on popcorn and drink. Or asked to leave from a restaurant at dinner time because there are too many people waiting at the bar for a seat. "I'm sorry sir but you will have to get the rest of your meal to go, we need your table"

It's absolute greed, trying to maximize on seating capacity. I boycott businesses like that and tweet all about it #greed
j50wells
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6/2/2017 9:54:15 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
Actually, the record of abuses in a capitalist society is much, much lower than in a controlled economy. In a capitalist society the laws are geared to protect the citizen in their right to work, keep their money, buy what they want, travel where they want to, assemble with whomever. In a controlled economy the laws are geared to maximize the governments profits for their own use and military use. All other uses come lastly, such as clean water, safe streets, healthy food...ETC. Moeover, the laws and police in a controlled society are set up in order to force the people to do what the government wants them to do in order to maximize the governments profit. In a controlled society the police can drag people out of their homes, and then beat them to death if they so desire. Because the courts loyalty is to the government, they will spend no money or time to defend a person who was dragged out of their home. Instead, they will spend all of their time destroying anyone who challenges the queen bee- the government.
Capitalism is the answer to almost all of the human rights abuses of third world countries. Proof of this is the fact that third world people are risking their lives to get to Europe or America. They come to the west because there is safety, rest, adequate food, protection under the law, and opportunities for work, which, by the way, is created by capitalism. Run from socialism my friend...it will not take you where you want to go.
dc0404
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6/3/2017 9:00:17 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 5/31/2017 4:13:01 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 4/12/2017 9:21:49 AM, Capitalistslave wrote:
What happened with united airlines recently is a perfect example of capitalism in all of its glory.

United Airlines wanted to get a little more profit so badly, that they overbook flights so that they can get more people to buy their tickets. They don't care that in the process, some people may not be able to get where they need to in the time they needed to. Businesses don't give a damn about you in most cases. They just want a profit.

This is why pretty much EVERY airline overbooks: capitalism gives them incentive to screw people over in order to maximize profits.

I agree 100% with you. It's called corporate greed. What's next, lets over book all movie theaters and restaurants and every other service to make sure we capitalize on maximum profit everywhere. It's just greed. I have no sympathy for United Airlines, I hope they get sued and people boycott the airline and they go out of business. I am certainly not ever going to use United.

I can't wait to be asked to leave from a movie theater for a sold out show after I already bought my ticket and spend another $50 on popcorn and drink. Or asked to leave from a restaurant at dinner time because there are too many people waiting at the bar for a seat. "I'm sorry sir but you will have to get the rest of your meal to go, we need your table"

It's absolute greed, trying to maximize on seating capacity. I boycott businesses like that and tweet all about it #greed

Ok, wait a minute, back up and think about what you are saying. Anyone who goes right to corporate greed as the reason they overbook does not understand economics at all. The economics of United overbooking their flights is a VERY good thing!!

United and all airlines overbook their flights for a few reasons:
1. Not everyone shows up and so it allows them to maximize seating capacity
2. BY overbooking their flights, that actually subsidizes the cost of tickets, thus making ticket prices cheaper for you. You are paying less as a result.
3. Patrons that are willing to invest big dollars for first class also subsidize the cost of many other seats, making them cheaper, and allowing many people from multiple socio-economic levels to afford plane travel.

This overbooking makes plane fare less expensive for you and me. That is why all of these airlines have a process for when "everyone shows up" and they go through their voucher offering etc. The problem in this case is United played it badly, but it had nothing to do with overselling seats.

Anything that is based on seats, airline or otherwise, it is a good practice to oversell seats. This is capitalism at its best again, create fares for everyone so more people can enjoy travel.

DC
ken1122
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6/4/2017 6:41:15 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 4/12/2017 8:38:06 PM, Capitalistslave wrote:
At 4/12/2017 4:29:13 PM, Jonbonbon wrote:

Capitalism is the exact reason this doesn't happen all the time. A business has to act in the interest of consumers to make a profit. I mean, you can scheme for a little bit, but no business can grow or make money for long periods of time by intentionally cheating customers. The world of business is too transparent now.

Just for fun, let's say United did this on purpose: now that everyone has decided not to fly United, all the other airline companies are going to explode in business, and United is going to lose millions. That would make their management team a bunch of idiots who have no idea how to run a business. The board of directors is going to make sure that whoever did that is fired (because their income depends on people not doing that), and the company is going to be changed anyway.

So it's a perfect example of how capitalism is going to fix this and make sure other airlines take steps to prevent it from happening to their customers. The public is acutely aware.

But capitalism is the reason it happened to begin with(because the business saw that they could cheat people out of tickets and get more money off of that. Again EVERY airline does this).

The reason this airline and every other airline does this is because people are constantly canceling their flights at the last minute, and planes were constantly leaving half empty. Think about it; if every airline has been doing this for a long time, how come it has taken so long for this type of tragedy to happen? (answer) because it usually works out due to the over booking is less than the amount of canceled flights.

And I wouldn't call how customers react to it as a result of capitalism, but as a result of a market economy. Market economy is not synonymous with capitalism since what I promote is Market Socialism. Market socialism is a market economy still. With Market socialism, it likely would have been the case that these companies wouldn't have tried this scheme to begin with.

You"ve got it backwards my friend; when the Soviet Union had market socialism, it was common for customers to stand in line for hours waiting for simple things like toilet paper; something that never happens in the USA. Market Capitalism has a vested interest in catering to the customer because their pay depends on it. In the real world, market socialism doesn"t care; they get paid whether the customer comes in or not.
FanboyMctroll
Posts: 3,388
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6/5/2017 1:38:00 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/3/2017 9:00:17 PM, dc0404 wrote:
At 5/31/2017 4:13:01 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 4/12/2017 9:21:49 AM, Capitalistslave wrote:
What happened with united airlines recently is a perfect example of capitalism in all of its glory.

United Airlines wanted to get a little more profit so badly, that they overbook flights so that they can get more people to buy their tickets. They don't care that in the process, some people may not be able to get where they need to in the time they needed to. Businesses don't give a damn about you in most cases. They just want a profit.

This is why pretty much EVERY airline overbooks: capitalism gives them incentive to screw people over in order to maximize profits.

I agree 100% with you. It's called corporate greed. What's next, lets over book all movie theaters and restaurants and every other service to make sure we capitalize on maximum profit everywhere. It's just greed. I have no sympathy for United Airlines, I hope they get sued and people boycott the airline and they go out of business. I am certainly not ever going to use United.

I can't wait to be asked to leave from a movie theater for a sold out show after I already bought my ticket and spend another $50 on popcorn and drink. Or asked to leave from a restaurant at dinner time because there are too many people waiting at the bar for a seat. "I'm sorry sir but you will have to get the rest of your meal to go, we need your table"

It's absolute greed, trying to maximize on seating capacity. I boycott businesses like that and tweet all about it #greed

Ok, wait a minute, back up and think about what you are saying. Anyone who goes right to corporate greed as the reason they overbook does not understand economics at all. The economics of United overbooking their flights is a VERY good thing!!

United and all airlines overbook their flights for a few reasons:
1. Not everyone shows up and so it allows them to maximize seating capacity
2. BY overbooking their flights, that actually subsidizes the cost of tickets, thus making ticket prices cheaper for you. You are paying less as a result.
3. Patrons that are willing to invest big dollars for first class also subsidize the cost of many other seats, making them cheaper, and allowing many people from multiple socio-economic levels to afford plane travel.

This overbooking makes plane fare less expensive for you and me. That is why all of these airlines have a process for when "everyone shows up" and they go through their voucher offering etc. The problem in this case is United played it badly, but it had nothing to do with overselling seats.

Anything that is based on seats, airline or otherwise, it is a good practice to oversell seats. This is capitalism at its best again, create fares for everyone so more people can enjoy travel.

DC

Do you work for American Airlines? Or United Airlines?? I thought I saw you on my last flight handing out the vouchers. You keep telling yourself overbooking is not a corporate greed tactic.

Yes I overbook my restaurant every night to make sure I make max profit, God forbid there can not be an empty seat anywhere, we MUST overbook!!! I must have the cash rolling in at max profit all the time!!!
dc0404
Posts: 287
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6/6/2017 11:48:19 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/5/2017 1:38:00 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 6/3/2017 9:00:17 PM, dc0404 wrote:
At 5/31/2017 4:13:01 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 4/12/2017 9:21:49 AM, Capitalistslave wrote:
What happened with united airlines recently is a perfect example of capitalism in all of its glory.

United Airlines wanted to get a little more profit so badly, that they overbook flights so that they can get more people to buy their tickets. They don't care that in the process, some people may not be able to get where they need to in the time they needed to. Businesses don't give a damn about you in most cases. They just want a profit.

This is why pretty much EVERY airline overbooks: capitalism gives them incentive to screw people over in order to maximize profits.

I agree 100% with you. It's called corporate greed. What's next, lets over book all movie theaters and restaurants and every other service to make sure we capitalize on maximum profit everywhere. It's just greed. I have no sympathy for United Airlines, I hope they get sued and people boycott the airline and they go out of business. I am certainly not ever going to use United.

I can't wait to be asked to leave from a movie theater for a sold out show after I already bought my ticket and spend another $50 on popcorn and drink. Or asked to leave from a restaurant at dinner time because there are too many people waiting at the bar for a seat. "I'm sorry sir but you will have to get the rest of your meal to go, we need your table"

It's absolute greed, trying to maximize on seating capacity. I boycott businesses like that and tweet all about it #greed

Ok, wait a minute, back up and think about what you are saying. Anyone who goes right to corporate greed as the reason they overbook does not understand economics at all. The economics of United overbooking their flights is a VERY good thing!!

United and all airlines overbook their flights for a few reasons:
1. Not everyone shows up and so it allows them to maximize seating capacity
2. BY overbooking their flights, that actually subsidizes the cost of tickets, thus making ticket prices cheaper for you. You are paying less as a result.
3. Patrons that are willing to invest big dollars for first class also subsidize the cost of many other seats, making them cheaper, and allowing many people from multiple socio-economic levels to afford plane travel.

This overbooking makes plane fare less expensive for you and me. That is why all of these airlines have a process for when "everyone shows up" and they go through their voucher offering etc. The problem in this case is United played it badly, but it had nothing to do with overselling seats.

Anything that is based on seats, airline or otherwise, it is a good practice to oversell seats. This is capitalism at its best again, create fares for everyone so more people can enjoy travel.

DC

Do you work for American Airlines? Or United Airlines?? I thought I saw you on my last flight handing out the vouchers. You keep telling yourself overbooking is not a corporate greed tactic.

Yes I overbook my restaurant every night to make sure I make max profit, God forbid there can not be an empty seat anywhere, we MUST overbook!!! I must have the cash rolling in at max profit all the time!!!

and again, you saved money the last time you flew one of those airlines as a result. I know, this is not the answer you wanted to hear, but it is the truth. Consumers, like you, benefit. Of course, everyone now and then it goes wrong like with United, but overall it is good.

DC
FanboyMctroll
Posts: 3,388
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6/8/2017 7:58:31 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/6/2017 11:48:19 PM, dc0404 wrote:
At 6/5/2017 1:38:00 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 6/3/2017 9:00:17 PM, dc0404 wrote:
At 5/31/2017 4:13:01 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 4/12/2017 9:21:49 AM, Capitalistslave wrote:
What happened with united airlines recently is a perfect example of capitalism in all of its glory.

United Airlines wanted to get a little more profit so badly, that they overbook flights so that they can get more people to buy their tickets. They don't care that in the process, some people may not be able to get where they need to in the time they needed to. Businesses don't give a damn about you in most cases. They just want a profit.

This is why pretty much EVERY airline overbooks: capitalism gives them incentive to screw people over in order to maximize profits.

I agree 100% with you. It's called corporate greed. What's next, lets over book all movie theaters and restaurants and every other service to make sure we capitalize on maximum profit everywhere. It's just greed. I have no sympathy for United Airlines, I hope they get sued and people boycott the airline and they go out of business. I am certainly not ever going to use United.

I can't wait to be asked to leave from a movie theater for a sold out show after I already bought my ticket and spend another $50 on popcorn and drink. Or asked to leave from a restaurant at dinner time because there are too many people waiting at the bar for a seat. "I'm sorry sir but you will have to get the rest of your meal to go, we need your table"

It's absolute greed, trying to maximize on seating capacity. I boycott businesses like that and tweet all about it #greed

Ok, wait a minute, back up and think about what you are saying. Anyone who goes right to corporate greed as the reason they overbook does not understand economics at all. The economics of United overbooking their flights is a VERY good thing!!

United and all airlines overbook their flights for a few reasons:
1. Not everyone shows up and so it allows them to maximize seating capacity
2. BY overbooking their flights, that actually subsidizes the cost of tickets, thus making ticket prices cheaper for you. You are paying less as a result.
3. Patrons that are willing to invest big dollars for first class also subsidize the cost of many other seats, making them cheaper, and allowing many people from multiple socio-economic levels to afford plane travel.

This overbooking makes plane fare less expensive for you and me. That is why all of these airlines have a process for when "everyone shows up" and they go through their voucher offering etc. The problem in this case is United played it badly, but it had nothing to do with overselling seats.

Anything that is based on seats, airline or otherwise, it is a good practice to oversell seats. This is capitalism at its best again, create fares for everyone so more people can enjoy travel.

DC

Do you work for American Airlines? Or United Airlines?? I thought I saw you on my last flight handing out the vouchers. You keep telling yourself overbooking is not a corporate greed tactic.

Yes I overbook my restaurant every night to make sure I make max profit, God forbid there can not be an empty seat anywhere, we MUST overbook!!! I must have the cash rolling in at max profit all the time!!!

and again, you saved money the last time you flew one of those airlines as a result. I know, this is not the answer you wanted to hear, but it is the truth. Consumers, like you, benefit. Of course, everyone now and then it goes wrong like with United, but overall it is good.

DC

I call it CORPORATE ARROGANCE. By the way what do you do for United Airlines, are you a pilot or do you work in the corporate office?
David_Debates
Posts: 353
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6/21/2017 8:03:27 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 4/15/2017 6:38:24 PM, TheMarketLibertarian wrote:
At 4/12/2017 9:21:49 AM, Capitalistslave wrote:
What happened with united airlines recently is a perfect example of capitalism in all of its glory.

United Airlines wanted to get a little more profit so badly, that they overbook flights so that they can get more people to buy their tickets. They don't care that in the process, some people may not be able to get where they need to in the time they needed to. Businesses don't give a damn about you in most cases. They just want a profit.

This is why pretty much EVERY airline overbooks: capitalism gives them incentive to screw people over in order to maximize profits.

I'm not going top lie- though I am a Hard-Core Libertarian, and I believe that the profit motive is usually a good thing, there are certain instances that prove a fully 100% capitalist system could never work out well. Thus the reason I am a Minarchist and not an Anarchic-Capitalist.

However, I do not believe the solution is eliminating property rights or encroaching upon voluntary exchange. The solution is limited government protections of liberties.

Another example of how this turns out bad on occasions is circumcision. Doctors and the Medical Establishment know very well that circumcision is Genital Mutilation, destroys pleasure, and has no health benefits. But they continue to promote these quack studies because they are making too much money off of sexually mutilating baby boys.

As Adam Smith said:
""...men whose interest is never exactly the same with that of the public, who have generally an interest to deceive and even to oppress the public, and who accordingly have, upon many occasions, both deceived and oppressed it."

Totally agree with you, TheMarketLibertarian. John Locke was pretty spot on when he said that government exists as a necessary evil because of evil.
People don't think the universe be like it is, but it do.
-Black Science Man
FanboyMctroll
Posts: 3,388
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6/21/2017 8:30:12 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/6/2017 11:48:19 PM, dc0404 wrote:
At 6/5/2017 1:38:00 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 6/3/2017 9:00:17 PM, dc0404 wrote:
At 5/31/2017 4:13:01 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 4/12/2017 9:21:49 AM, Capitalistslave wrote:
What happened with united airlines recently is a perfect example of capitalism in all of its glory.

United Airlines wanted to get a little more profit so badly, that they overbook flights so that they can get more people to buy their tickets. They don't care that in the process, some people may not be able to get where they need to in the time they needed to. Businesses don't give a damn about you in most cases. They just want a profit.

This is why pretty much EVERY airline overbooks: capitalism gives them incentive to screw people over in order to maximize profits.

I agree 100% with you. It's called corporate greed. What's next, lets over book all movie theaters and restaurants and every other service to make sure we capitalize on maximum profit everywhere. It's just greed. I have no sympathy for United Airlines, I hope they get sued and people boycott the airline and they go out of business. I am certainly not ever going to use United.

I can't wait to be asked to leave from a movie theater for a sold out show after I already bought my ticket and spend another $50 on popcorn and drink. Or asked to leave from a restaurant at dinner time because there are too many people waiting at the bar for a seat. "I'm sorry sir but you will have to get the rest of your meal to go, we need your table"

It's absolute greed, trying to maximize on seating capacity. I boycott businesses like that and tweet all about it #greed

Ok, wait a minute, back up and think about what you are saying. Anyone who goes right to corporate greed as the reason they overbook does not understand economics at all. The economics of United overbooking their flights is a VERY good thing!!

United and all airlines overbook their flights for a few reasons:
1. Not everyone shows up and so it allows them to maximize seating capacity
2. BY overbooking their flights, that actually subsidizes the cost of tickets, thus making ticket prices cheaper for you. You are paying less as a result.
3. Patrons that are willing to invest big dollars for first class also subsidize the cost of many other seats, making them cheaper, and allowing many people from multiple socio-economic levels to afford plane travel.

This overbooking makes plane fare less expensive for you and me. That is why all of these airlines have a process for when "everyone shows up" and they go through their voucher offering etc. The problem in this case is United played it badly, but it had nothing to do with overselling seats.

Anything that is based on seats, airline or otherwise, it is a good practice to oversell seats. This is capitalism at its best again, create fares for everyone so more people can enjoy travel.

DC

Do you work for American Airlines? Or United Airlines?? I thought I saw you on my last flight handing out the vouchers. You keep telling yourself overbooking is not a corporate greed tactic.

Yes I overbook my restaurant every night to make sure I make max profit, God forbid there can not be an empty seat anywhere, we MUST overbook!!! I must have the cash rolling in at max profit all the time!!!

and again, you saved money the last time you flew one of those airlines as a result. I know, this is not the answer you wanted to hear, but it is the truth. Consumers, like you, benefit. Of course, everyone now and then it goes wrong like with United, but overall it is good.

DC

Speaking of overbooking, I reserved a hotel 3 months ago for last weekend stay. So I arrive on Friday night and they tell me that they overbooked the hotel, I was about to snap and go postal and shoot everyone in there, until the woman tells me that they will comp me the deluxe suite at no extra charge because of the overbooking.

I was going to snap and have to be dragged out of there by the police, but fortunately I did get a better room for the weekend. So it all worked out this time!!!
sunny108
Posts: 2
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6/22/2017 10:31:48 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
Capitalist corporations suffer from a personality disorder characterized by enduring antisocial behavior, diminished empathy and remorse, and are rewarded by shareholders for acting that way. If corporations could be sent to a criminal psychologist"s office they"d be diagnosed as psychopaths and locked away forever.
FanboyMctroll
Posts: 3,388
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6/22/2017 12:35:30 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/22/2017 10:31:48 AM, sunny108 wrote:
Capitalist corporations suffer from a personality disorder characterized by enduring antisocial behavior, diminished empathy and remorse, and are rewarded by shareholders for acting that way. If corporations could be sent to a criminal psychologist"s office they"d be diagnosed as psychopaths and locked away forever.

I think that's what they say about the CEO's of the corporations