Total Posts:5|Showing Posts:1-5
Jump to topic:

Bitcoin

3RU7AL
Posts: 1,520
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/5/2017 6:16:52 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
"The key with bitcoin and litecoin is that you don't have to trust a corporation or a government."

Yeah the flip side is that you have no one to blame if your bitcoins are suddenly worthless. In theory you can go after your democratically elected officials when they pull stupid stuff like India did with cash and cash transactions.

"Bank notes have gone from being receipts for your gold and silver deposits, to being meaningless confetti, printed like carnival tickets."

The question you have to ask yourself here is: do we need money as a medium of exchange, or is it supposed to be a store of value and nothing else. If you familiarize yourself with the history of banking and currency you find that the currencies that try to hard to be a store of value ended up being nearly useless as a medium of exchange. Backing currency with gold, or even silver, turns out to be a pretty terrible idea! If you want gold or silver just buy gold or silver!

Antiquated "goldbug" style thinking leads to immense human suffering in economic downturns. The fear of inflation in the Eurozone is the reason the Greeks are suffering so terribly. By adopting a common currency with Germany and then getting in over their heads with debt denominated in Euros they've now suffered a deeper and longer economic downturn than Greece suffered in the Great Depression. If they'd stuck to their own fiat currency they could have inflated away the real value of their debt by issuing huge amounts of new currency. It may have hurt the wealthy (except the truly wealthy are smart enough not to try to save in fiat currency, they invest) and Greek tourists and travelers to other parts of Europe. But it would have kept unemployment in check and side-stepped years of grinding debt deflation. A more humane Germany would have allowed higher Eurozone inflation, allowing prices and wages to rise in Germany to help inflate away the Greek debts, instead of forcing prices and wages to fall in Greece.

"Your bank can freeze (and audit) your accounts at any moment, regardless of whether or not you are even accused of a "crime"."

If you think you're sidestepping this problem with bitcoin you're probably deluding yourself. This may have been true 10 years ago, but the US government is aware of crypto currencies now. Based on what happened to Mt. Vox and some of the other bitcoin scammers, not to mention the guy behind Silk Road, the Feds have ways to deal with bitcoin-related illicit activities now.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"WaMu's accounts were sold to JP Morgan, not the company. You will not get shares of JP Morgan. What you have stock in is a bank with no assets. All WaMu is worth now is its tangible assets (buildings, furniture, etc.). When all that is sold, it will be divided among the shareholders (common stock generally being the last to get money).
The stock you own is basically worthless. Sorry."

https://answers.yahoo.com...

I knew a few people who had heavily invested their 401k in Washington Mutual. $30,000 - $90,000 evaporated overnight. Not a single federal agency even offered an apology.

10% fractional reserve banking is a ridiculous and unsustainable ponzi scheme. I'm much less concerned if you think a gold standard is a good idea or not. A 50% fractional reserve banking system would be a much more reliable system. Bitcoin's utility is as a medium of exchange. The transaction limit will increase, or another coin will take its place.

I like being able to pay for something without having to trust the seller with my personal information and credit card number. Why should I be forced to trust a company to keep my information safe, just to buy a book or a sandwich?

The crisis in Greece had nothing to do with the gold standard. The crisis in Cyprus had nothing to do with the gold standard. The crises in Venezuela and Zimbabwe had nothing to do with the gold standard.

The "bitcoin as exclusive criminal device" argument is laughable. Can you even count the number of scams people have run using fiat? Can you even imagine the number of illicit and illegal activities that have been paid for in fiat? I think it is awesome that law enforcement is doing their job. None of this has anything whatsoever to do with bitcoin.

Some combination of a gold and/or silver standard was used in the United States from 1792 - 1971. This hardly seems like a fluke.

https://www.cato.org...
Believing in "objective reality" is just like believing in heaven.

Please adhere to obvious epistemological limits.

ethang5, PureX, and I agree on... http://www.debate.org...

Cognitive bias https://www.youtube.com...
Bias blindspot https://www.youtube.com...
Alief ------------ https://www.youtube.com...
Nd2400
Posts: 1,458
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/5/2017 6:27:36 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 12/5/2017 6:16:52 PM, 3RU7AL wrote:
"The key with bitcoin and litecoin is that you don't have to trust a corporation or a government."

Yeah the flip side is that you have no one to blame if your bitcoins are suddenly worthless. In theory you can go after your democratically elected officials when they pull stupid stuff like India did with cash and cash transactions.

"Bank notes have gone from being receipts for your gold and silver deposits, to being meaningless confetti, printed like carnival tickets."

The question you have to ask yourself here is: do we need money as a medium of exchange, or is it supposed to be a store of value and nothing else. If you familiarize yourself with the history of banking and currency you find that the currencies that try to hard to be a store of value ended up being nearly useless as a medium of exchange. Backing currency with gold, or even silver, turns out to be a pretty terrible idea! If you want gold or silver just buy gold or silver!

Antiquated "goldbug" style thinking leads to immense human suffering in economic downturns. The fear of inflation in the Eurozone is the reason the Greeks are suffering so terribly. By adopting a common currency with Germany and then getting in over their heads with debt denominated in Euros they've now suffered a deeper and longer economic downturn than Greece suffered in the Great Depression. If they'd stuck to their own fiat currency they could have inflated away the real value of their debt by issuing huge amounts of new currency. It may have hurt the wealthy (except the truly wealthy are smart enough not to try to save in fiat currency, they invest) and Greek tourists and travelers to other parts of Europe. But it would have kept unemployment in check and side-stepped years of grinding debt deflation. A more humane Germany would have allowed higher Eurozone inflation, allowing prices and wages to rise in Germany to help inflate away the Greek debts, instead of forcing prices and wages to fall in Greece.

"Your bank can freeze (and audit) your accounts at any moment, regardless of whether or not you are even accused of a "crime"."

If you think you're sidestepping this problem with bitcoin you're probably deluding yourself. This may have been true 10 years ago, but the US government is aware of crypto currencies now. Based on what happened to Mt. Vox and some of the other bitcoin scammers, not to mention the guy behind Silk Road, the Feds have ways to deal with bitcoin-related illicit activities now.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"WaMu's accounts were sold to JP Morgan, not the company. You will not get shares of JP Morgan. What you have stock in is a bank with no assets. All WaMu is worth now is its tangible assets (buildings, furniture, etc.). When all that is sold, it will be divided among the shareholders (common stock generally being the last to get money).
The stock you own is basically worthless. Sorry."

https://answers.yahoo.com...

I knew a few people who had heavily invested their 401k in Washington Mutual. $30,000 - $90,000 evaporated overnight. Not a single federal agency even offered an apology.

10% fractional reserve banking is a ridiculous and unsustainable ponzi scheme. I'm much less concerned if you think a gold standard is a good idea or not. A 50% fractional reserve banking system would be a much more reliable system. Bitcoin's utility is as a medium of exchange. The transaction limit will increase, or another coin will take its place.

I like being able to pay for something without having to trust the seller with my personal information and credit card number. Why should I be forced to trust a company to keep my information safe, just to buy a book or a sandwich?

The crisis in Greece had nothing to do with the gold standard. The crisis in Cyprus had nothing to do with the gold standard. The crises in Venezuela and Zimbabwe had nothing to do with the gold standard.

The "bitcoin as exclusive criminal device" argument is laughable. Can you even count the number of scams people have run using fiat? Can you even imagine the number of illicit and illegal activities that have been paid for in fiat? I think it is awesome that law enforcement is doing their job. None of this has anything whatsoever to do with bitcoin.


Some combination of a gold and/or silver standard was used in the United States from 1792 - 1971. This hardly seems like a fluke.

https://www.cato.org...

Good post...

You did your homework....
Anyways enjoyed reading this.....
3RU7AL
Posts: 1,520
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/5/2017 6:45:20 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 12/5/2017 6:27:36 PM, Nd2400 wrote:

Good post...

You did your homework....
Anyways enjoyed reading this.....

Thanks, which side do you think is more convincing?

Bitcoin-Pro or Bitcoin-Con?
Believing in "objective reality" is just like believing in heaven.

Please adhere to obvious epistemological limits.

ethang5, PureX, and I agree on... http://www.debate.org...

Cognitive bias https://www.youtube.com...
Bias blindspot https://www.youtube.com...
Alief ------------ https://www.youtube.com...
3RU7AL
Posts: 1,520
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/5/2017 7:06:27 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
This explains why "the debt ceiling" is not a "problem" and why our government is clueless.
Believing in "objective reality" is just like believing in heaven.

Please adhere to obvious epistemological limits.

ethang5, PureX, and I agree on... http://www.debate.org...

Cognitive bias https://www.youtube.com...
Bias blindspot https://www.youtube.com...
Alief ------------ https://www.youtube.com...
Nd2400
Posts: 1,458
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/5/2017 10:12:59 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 12/5/2017 6:45:20 PM, 3RU7AL wrote:
At 12/5/2017 6:27:36 PM, Nd2400 wrote:

Good post...

You did your homework....
Anyways enjoyed reading this.....

Thanks, which side do you think is more convincing?

Bitcoin-Pro or Bitcoin-Con?

I think bitcoin-Pro was more convincing... I know i had a debate on this a few days ago. I should had brought up the gold standard, i just didn't. Don't know why either. But either way you made some quick and good points on the pro side.