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lewis20
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12/28/2010 8:10:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It's not possible to pay it off is it? At least not without massive recession/depression. I also thought it was interesting that national debt is roughly equal to M1, so it would take everyone emptying their checking accounts and giving up all physical currency to pay off the debt right?
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SportsGuru
Posts: 1,648
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12/28/2010 8:33:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Put in a word: no. If we did, it would take a h@ll of a long time. It would be interesting to see where we were however, if all war reparations were repaid, considering Germany just finished paying WW1 reparations a few months ago.

http://news.theage.com.au...
Ore_Ele
Posts: 21,422
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12/28/2010 8:38:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/28/2010 8:10:00 PM, lewis20 wrote:
It's not possible to pay it off is it? At least not without massive recession/depression. I also thought it was interesting that national debt is roughly equal to M1, so it would take everyone emptying their checking accounts and giving up all physical currency to pay off the debt right?

The most likely plan is to balance the budget, and then wait for inflation to minimize the dollar. Not saying that is the moral or best way to do it, just the most likely given our politicians. Since $5 million is not today what it was 50 years ago, maybe $15 trillion in 50 years might not be what it is today.
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belle
Posts: 4,113
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12/28/2010 8:40:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/28/2010 8:38:34 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 12/28/2010 8:10:00 PM, lewis20 wrote:
It's not possible to pay it off is it? At least not without massive recession/depression. I also thought it was interesting that national debt is roughly equal to M1, so it would take everyone emptying their checking accounts and giving up all physical currency to pay off the debt right?

The most likely plan is to balance the budget, and then wait for inflation to minimize the dollar. Not saying that is the moral or best way to do it, just the most likely given our politicians. Since $5 million is not today what it was 50 years ago, maybe $15 trillion in 50 years might not be what it is today.

heh. i think the whole "balance the budget" bit is too optimistic >.>
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
LaissezFaire
Posts: 2,050
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12/28/2010 8:42:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
No, it isn't. Nor does the government have any intention of paying it off--and the world knows it.

We're printing money to cover our entire deficit now, because there's no way we'd be able to find enough borrowers on the free market. With QE2, the Fed's buying enough treasury bonds to cover the entire deficit through the first half of 2011. And we can't keep doing this forever--if the Fed keeps that up, we'll default on the debt by causing hyperinflation and making it worthless.

And that's not even including Medicare and Social Security promises--which are essentially the same thing as debt: a promise to pay $X to some people a set time in the future. That'll probably be outright defaulted on, or at least mostly defaulted on.
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: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 21,422
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12/28/2010 8:43:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/28/2010 8:40:01 PM, belle wrote:
At 12/28/2010 8:38:34 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 12/28/2010 8:10:00 PM, lewis20 wrote:
It's not possible to pay it off is it? At least not without massive recession/depression. I also thought it was interesting that national debt is roughly equal to M1, so it would take everyone emptying their checking accounts and giving up all physical currency to pay off the debt right?

The most likely plan is to balance the budget, and then wait for inflation to minimize the dollar. Not saying that is the moral or best way to do it, just the most likely given our politicians. Since $5 million is not today what it was 50 years ago, maybe $15 trillion in 50 years might not be what it is today.

heh. i think the whole "balance the budget" bit is too optimistic >.>

Yeah, probably they'd get the budget "close enough" so that inflation grew faster then the debt, so that in respects to a stable dollar, the value of the debt would go down.

Either way, something's gotta give.
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LaissezFaire
Posts: 2,050
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12/28/2010 8:44:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/28/2010 8:40:01 PM, belle wrote:
At 12/28/2010 8:38:34 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 12/28/2010 8:10:00 PM, lewis20 wrote:
It's not possible to pay it off is it? At least not without massive recession/depression. I also thought it was interesting that national debt is roughly equal to M1, so it would take everyone emptying their checking accounts and giving up all physical currency to pay off the debt right?

The most likely plan is to balance the budget, and then wait for inflation to minimize the dollar. Not saying that is the moral or best way to do it, just the most likely given our politicians. Since $5 million is not today what it was 50 years ago, maybe $15 trillion in 50 years might not be what it is today.

heh. i think the whole "balance the budget" bit is too optimistic >.>

This. If the government and the people electing them had enough foresight to balance the budget now to avoid a catastrophe later, we wouldn't have this problem in the first place.
Should we subsidize education?
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: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 21,422
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12/28/2010 8:45:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/28/2010 8:42:41 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
No, it isn't. Nor does the government have any intention of paying it off--and the world knows it.

We're printing money to cover our entire deficit now, because there's no way we'd be able to find enough borrowers on the free market. With QE2, the Fed's buying enough treasury bonds to cover the entire deficit through the first half of 2011. And we can't keep doing this forever--if the Fed keeps that up, we'll default on the debt by causing hyperinflation and making it worthless.

And that's not even including Medicare and Social Security promises--which are essentially the same thing as debt: a promise to pay $X to some people a set time in the future. That'll probably be outright defaulted on, or at least mostly defaulted on.

If the entire world knew it, then they wouldn't be buying our debt, nor our products or companies.

While I agree that our current trend is unsustainable, I don't think that it is as grim as you lead on.
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Ore_Ele
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12/28/2010 8:48:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/28/2010 8:44:32 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 12/28/2010 8:40:01 PM, belle wrote:
At 12/28/2010 8:38:34 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 12/28/2010 8:10:00 PM, lewis20 wrote:
It's not possible to pay it off is it? At least not without massive recession/depression. I also thought it was interesting that national debt is roughly equal to M1, so it would take everyone emptying their checking accounts and giving up all physical currency to pay off the debt right?

The most likely plan is to balance the budget, and then wait for inflation to minimize the dollar. Not saying that is the moral or best way to do it, just the most likely given our politicians. Since $5 million is not today what it was 50 years ago, maybe $15 trillion in 50 years might not be what it is today.

heh. i think the whole "balance the budget" bit is too optimistic >.>

This. If the government and the people electing them had enough foresight to balance the budget now to avoid a catastrophe later, we wouldn't have this problem in the first place.

At the point that we are at now, we'll need several people in a row that support a balanced budget. Things would be a lot different if in 2000, someone continued the balanced budget that was handed off to them. But then, if Clinton also had taken means to get Bin Laden when he had the chance, and if Bush had taken certain protective measures, we might not have the wars that added hundreds of billions. But then, what ifs always seem better.
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Ore_Ele
Posts: 21,422
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12/28/2010 8:56:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/28/2010 8:50:47 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Possible outcomes:
Nothing
Repudiation
Bankruptcy
Sell off something huge, like a state.

Selling a state? I wonder what the constitutionality of that would be. Since all those people would still be legal US citizens (we can't just take that right away). And would the US have to pay for them to come back to the US (otherwise it is like they've deported all those people to a different Nation).
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belle
Posts: 4,113
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12/28/2010 9:02:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
maybe they'd just be granted dual citizenship to whatever country bought it....
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
LaissezFaire
Posts: 2,050
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12/28/2010 9:07:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/28/2010 8:45:21 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 12/28/2010 8:42:41 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
No, it isn't. Nor does the government have any intention of paying it off--and the world knows it.

We're printing money to cover our entire deficit now, because there's no way we'd be able to find enough borrowers on the free market. With QE2, the Fed's buying enough treasury bonds to cover the entire deficit through the first half of 2011. And we can't keep doing this forever--if the Fed keeps that up, we'll default on the debt by causing hyperinflation and making it worthless.

And that's not even including Medicare and Social Security promises--which are essentially the same thing as debt: a promise to pay $X to some people a set time in the future. That'll probably be outright defaulted on, or at least mostly defaulted on.

If the entire world knew it, then they wouldn't be buying our debt, nor our products or companies.
They aren't buying our debt. We're printing money to cover the deficit. China is getting their assets out of the dollar (slowly, but only because a massive run on the dollar by China would make the debt they're trying to sell worthless).

As for our products and companies--those aren't going to become worthless. Only our currency and our debt will (although most stock prices will also probably go down for a bit).

While I agree that our current trend is unsustainable, I don't think that it is as grim as you lead on.

Assuming the budget isn't balanced within a few years (it won't be), there'll have to be some sort of inflationary crisis. Either A) the Fed continues to print money to cover the deficit indefinitely. This will obviously cause inflation, although it won't be immediate. Commodities are going to continue to go up, which will eventually be reflected in the CPI, especially as oil and food prices continue to climb. As it became apparent that the government would continue to print money and inflation would continue to rise, people would try to get rid of their dollars as quickly as they could. That last part is key--that's what hyperinflation is, when everyone loses confidence in the currency, and it becomes worthless as everyone tries to get rid of it at once. or B) The Fed stops printing money to cover the deficit, and the government has to actually sell treasury bonds. If, at one auction, they weren't able to sell enough to cover the deficit, that could immediately trigger hyperinflation. Banks would get their money ('their money' being used loosely, as it's actually just money the Fed printed out of thin air and gave to them) out of government debt as quickly as they could, fearing that it would soon be worthless. All of that printed money would flock to the only safe place left, commodities (specifically, oil and food futures). With the amount of fake money in the system, the price of gas could shoot up 5-10x within a week, triggering the widespread loss of confidence in the value of the currency that causes hyperinflation.
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: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 21,422
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12/28/2010 9:08:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/28/2010 9:02:41 PM, belle wrote:
maybe they'd just be granted dual citizenship to whatever country bought it....

True, but how many people would really want that? Imagine in Texas was sold to Mexico, how many people would really be fine with staying there (maybe Arizona can go to them). I imagine most would want to be compensated for their extensive loss (not to mention potential loss of liberties that may come with the new nation).
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lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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12/28/2010 9:14:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/28/2010 8:43:16 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 12/28/2010 8:40:01 PM, belle wrote:
At 12/28/2010 8:38:34 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 12/28/2010 8:10:00 PM, lewis20 wrote:
It's not possible to pay it off is it? At least not without massive recession/depression. I also thought it was interesting that national debt is roughly equal to M1, so it would take everyone emptying their checking accounts and giving up all physical currency to pay off the debt right?

The most likely plan is to balance the budget, and then wait for inflation to minimize the dollar. Not saying that is the moral or best way to do it, just the most likely given our politicians. Since $5 million is not today what it was 50 years ago, maybe $15 trillion in 50 years might not be what it is today.

heh. i think the whole "balance the budget" bit is too optimistic >.>

Yeah, probably they'd get the budget "close enough" so that inflation grew faster then the debt, so that in respects to a stable dollar, the value of the debt would go down.

Either way, something's gotta give.

I don't think inflation will take care of it, i'm sure the interest we are paying on the debt will always be more than inflation. otherwise going into debt would be a good investment right?
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Ore_Ele
Posts: 21,422
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12/28/2010 9:27:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/28/2010 9:14:27 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 12/28/2010 8:43:16 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 12/28/2010 8:40:01 PM, belle wrote:
At 12/28/2010 8:38:34 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 12/28/2010 8:10:00 PM, lewis20 wrote:
It's not possible to pay it off is it? At least not without massive recession/depression. I also thought it was interesting that national debt is roughly equal to M1, so it would take everyone emptying their checking accounts and giving up all physical currency to pay off the debt right?

The most likely plan is to balance the budget, and then wait for inflation to minimize the dollar. Not saying that is the moral or best way to do it, just the most likely given our politicians. Since $5 million is not today what it was 50 years ago, maybe $15 trillion in 50 years might not be what it is today.

heh. i think the whole "balance the budget" bit is too optimistic >.>

Yeah, probably they'd get the budget "close enough" so that inflation grew faster then the debt, so that in respects to a stable dollar, the value of the debt would go down.

Either way, something's gotta give.

I don't think inflation will take care of it, i'm sure the interest we are paying on the debt will always be more than inflation. otherwise going into debt would be a good investment right?

Debt can be a good investment. If I take out a loan for 5%, and can invest that money to make 8%, then that is a free 3% that I am making on other people's money (namely the lender's money). Many companies currently do that, they choose not to pay off their debt because that money could be better invested then to pay off debt.
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lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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12/28/2010 9:45:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/28/2010 9:27:03 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 12/28/2010 9:14:27 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 12/28/2010 8:43:16 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 12/28/2010 8:40:01 PM, belle wrote:
At 12/28/2010 8:38:34 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 12/28/2010 8:10:00 PM, lewis20 wrote:
It's not possible to pay it off is it? At least not without massive recession/depression. I also thought it was interesting that national debt is roughly equal to M1, so it would take everyone emptying their checking accounts and giving up all physical currency to pay off the debt right?

The most likely plan is to balance the budget, and then wait for inflation to minimize the dollar. Not saying that is the moral or best way to do it, just the most likely given our politicians. Since $5 million is not today what it was 50 years ago, maybe $15 trillion in 50 years might not be what it is today.

heh. i think the whole "balance the budget" bit is too optimistic >.>

Yeah, probably they'd get the budget "close enough" so that inflation grew faster then the debt, so that in respects to a stable dollar, the value of the debt would go down.

Either way, something's gotta give.

I don't think inflation will take care of it, i'm sure the interest we are paying on the debt will always be more than inflation. otherwise going into debt would be a good investment right?

Debt can be a good investment. If I take out a loan for 5%, and can invest that money to make 8%, then that is a free 3% that I am making on other people's money (namely the lender's money). Many companies currently do that, they choose not to pay off their debt because that money could be better invested then to pay off debt.

Debt itself isn't a good investment though. that is unless the interest rate you're paying is less than the rate of inflation.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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12/28/2010 10:46:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Foreign debt is good for foreign policy. As long as China owns our foreign debt, they cannot nuke us. And it's not like everyone's going to go demand their money back as long as it's still recognized as valid and accumulating interest.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
FREEDO
Posts: 20,923
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12/29/2010 12:06:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
We're no strangers to loveYou know the rules and so do IA full commitment's what I'm thinking ofYou wouldn't get this from any other guy

I just wanna tell you how I'm feelingGotta make you understand

Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you downNever gonna run around and desert youNever gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbyeNever gonna tell a lie and hurt you

We've known each other for so longYour heart's been aching but you're too shy to say itInside we both know what's been going onWe know the game and we're gonna play it

And if you ask me how I'm feelingDon't tell me you're too blind to see

Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you downNever gonna run around and desert youNever gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbyeNever gonna tell a lie and hurt you

Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you downNever gonna run around and desert youNever gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbyeNever gonna tell a lie and hurt you

(Ooh give you up)(Ooh give you up)(Ooh) never gonna give, never gonna give (give you up)(Ooh) never gonna give, never gonna give (give you up)

We've known each other for so longYour heart's been aching but you're too shy to say itInside we both know what's been going onWe know the game and we're gonna play it

I just wanna tell you how I'm feelingGotta make you understand

Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you downNever gonna run around and desert youNever gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbyeNever gonna tell a lie and hurt you

We're no strangers to loveYou know the rules and so do IA full commitment's what I'm thinking ofYou wouldn't get this from any other guy

I just wanna tell you how I'm feelingGotta make you understand

Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you downNever gonna run around and desert youNever gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbyeNever gonna tell a lie and hurt you

We've known each other for so longYour heart's been aching but you're too shy to say itInside we both know what's been going onWe know the game and we're gonna play it

And if you ask me how I'm feelingDon't tell me you're too blind to see

Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you downNever gonna run around and desert youNever gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbyeNever gonna tell a lie and hurt you

Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you downNever gonna run around and desert youNever gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbyeNever gonna tell a lie and hurt you

(Ooh give you up)(Ooh give you up)(Ooh) never gonna give, never gonna give (give you up)(Ooh) never gonna give, never gonna give (give you up)

We've known each other for so longYour heart's been aching but you're too shy to say itInside we both know what's been going onWe know the game and we're gonna play it

I just wanna tell you how I'm feelingGotta make you understand

Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you downNever gonna run around and desert youNever gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbyeNever gonna tell a lie and hurt you

We're no strangers to loveYou know the rules and so do IA full commitment's what I'm thinking ofYou wouldn't get this from any other guy

I just wanna tell you how I'm feelingGotta make you understand

Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you downNever gonna run around and desert youNever gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbyeNever gonna tell a lie and hurt you

We've known each other for so longYour heart's been aching but you're too shy to say itInside we both know what's been going onWe know the game and we're gonna play it

And if you ask me how I'm feelingDon't tell me you're too blind to see

Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you downNever gonna run around and desert youNever gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbyeNever gonna tell a lie and hurt you

Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you downNever gonna run around and desert youNever gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbyeNever gonna tell a lie and hurt you

(Ooh give you up)(Ooh give you up)(Ooh) never gonna give, never gonna give (give you up)(Ooh) never gonna give, never gonna give (give you up)

We've known each other for so longYour heart's been aching but you're too shy to say itInside we both know what's been going onWe know the game and we're gonna play it

I just wanna tell you how I'm feelingGotta make you understand

Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you downNever gonna run around and desert youNever gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbyeNever gonna tell a lie and hurt you

We're no strangers to loveYou know the rules and so do IA full commitment's what I'm thinking ofYou wouldn't get this from any other guy

I just wanna tell you how I'm feelingGotta make you understand

Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you downNever gonna run around and desert youNever gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbyeNever gonna tell a lie and hurt you

We've known each other for so longYour heart's been aching but you're too shy to say itInside we both know what's been going onWe know the game and we're gonna play it

And if you ask me how I'm feelingDon't tell me you're too blind to see

Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you downNever gonna run around and desert youNever gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbyeNever gonna tell a lie and hurt you

Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you downNever gonna run around and desert youNever gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbyeNever gonna tell a lie and hurt you

(Ooh give you up)(Ooh give you up)(Ooh) never gonna give, never gonna give (give you up)(Ooh) never gonna give, never gonna give (give you up)

We've known each other for so longYour heart's been aching but you're too shy to say itInside we both know what's been going onWe know the game and we're gonna play it

I just wanna tell you how I'm feelingGotta make you understand

Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you downNever gonna run around and desert youNever gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbyeNever gonna tell a lie and hurt you

We're no strangers to loveYou know the rules and so do IA full commitment's what I'm thinking ofYou wouldn't get this from any other guy

I just wanna tell you how I'm feelingGotta make you understand

Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you downNever gonna run around and desert youNever gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbyeNever gonna tell a lie and hurt you

We've known each other for so longYour heart's been aching but you're too shy to say itInside we both know what's been going onWe know the game and we're gonna play it

And if you ask me how I'm feelingDon't tell me you're too blind to see

Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you downNever gonna run around and desert youNever gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbyeNever gonna tell a lie and hurt you

Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you downNever gonna run around and desert youNever gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbyeNever gonna tell a lie and hurt you

(Ooh give you up)(Ooh give you up)(Ooh) never gonna give, never gonna give (give you up)(Ooh) never gonna give, never gonna give (give you up)

We've known each other for so longYour heart's been aching but you're too shy to say itInside we both know what's been going onWe know the game and we're gonna play it

I just wanna tell you how I'm feelingGotta make you understand

Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you downNever gonna run around and desert you. Never gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbyeNever gonna tell a lie and hurt you
fnord
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/29/2010 6:32:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/28/2010 8:10:00 PM, lewis20 wrote:
It's not possible to pay it off is it? At least not without massive recession/depression. I also thought it was interesting that national debt is roughly equal to M1, so it would take everyone emptying their checking accounts and giving up all physical currency to pay off the debt right?

The answer in the question.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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12/29/2010 1:19:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/28/2010 8:10:00 PM, lewis20 wrote:
It's not possible to pay it off is it?:

Sure it is!

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com...

Ah, crap...... nevermind :(
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Caramel
Posts: 855
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12/29/2010 1:25:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Freedo is right; we need to sell Texas to China to cover the debt. I want to see the Dallas Cowboys take the field some day as a bunch of short Chinamen scurrying around aimlessly...
no comment
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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12/29/2010 1:27:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
We're printing money to cover our entire deficit now, because there's no way we'd be able to find enough borrowers on the free market. With QE2, the Fed's buying enough treasury bonds to cover the entire deficit through the first half of 2011. And we can't keep doing this forever--if the Fed keeps that up, we'll default on the debt by causing hyperinflation and making it worthless.:

Which is exactly what is going to happen if the US does not completely revamp the system, like,

- Complete overhaul or dismantling of the IRS and the taxation
- The abrogation of entitlement programs
- Abolishing the FED and never going back to a central bank again who manipulate the market
- Stop funding useless gov't programs and stop funding preemptive wars
- Going back to the Gold Standard

Without it, the future isn't just bleak, it's hopeless.

And that's not even including Medicare and Social Security promises--which are essentially the same thing as debt: a promise to pay $X to some people a set time in the future. That'll probably be outright defaulted on, or at least mostly defaulted on.:

Yep... And people are having less kids who will enter the job market who can fund the retiring baby boomers... all 4 hundred quadrillion of 'em!
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
TheAtheistAllegiance
Posts: 1,251
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12/29/2010 11:15:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/28/2010 8:10:00 PM, lewis20 wrote:
It's not possible to pay it off is it? At least not without massive recession/depression. I also thought it was interesting that national debt is roughly equal to M1, so it would take everyone emptying their checking accounts and giving up all physical currency to pay off the debt right?

Yes. Discounting political roadblocks, there are numerous ways that the US can solve the debt crisis. The reason the US is in debt is because of frivolous spending being coupled with tax cuts. Slashing spending and raising taxes will bring the deficit down, and the Fed won't have to inflate us out of it. For instance, end the War on Drugs, end the wars overseas, reform healthcare, slash the 1 trillion+ military budget, end tax exemptions, deductions, and loopholes for the rich, and reform the tax code so that larger receipts can be collected without burdening the middle-class. There are also smaller reforms, such as earmarks, farm and oil subsidies, etc.

Clinton was able to run record surpluses with very non-radical reforms and a great economy, so this isn't by any means impossible.
innomen
Posts: 10,027
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12/30/2010 4:11:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/29/2010 11:15:00 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
At 12/28/2010 8:10:00 PM, lewis20 wrote:
It's not possible to pay it off is it? At least not without massive recession/depression. I also thought it was interesting that national debt is roughly equal to M1, so it would take everyone emptying their checking accounts and giving up all physical currency to pay off the debt right?

Yes. Discounting political roadblocks, there are numerous ways that the US can solve the debt crisis. The reason the US is in debt is because of frivolous spending being coupled with tax cuts. Slashing spending and raising taxes will bring the deficit down, and the Fed won't have to inflate us out of it. For instance, end the War on Drugs, end the wars overseas, reform healthcare, slash the 1 trillion+ military budget, end tax exemptions, deductions, and loopholes for the rich, and reform the tax code so that larger receipts can be collected without burdening the middle-class. There are also smaller reforms, such as earmarks, farm and oil subsidies, etc.

Clinton was able to run record surpluses with very non-radical reforms and a great economy, so this isn't by any means impossible.

I really hate it when people take things out of complete context like the Clinton example. He was a decent manager, yeah, far better than what we have now, but...he rode an economic bubble that burst just as he was leaving. The dot-com era isn't something that you can simply decide to implement; he was just really lucky in his timing. Unless of course you believe that Al Gore invented the internet. Oh, and raising taxes on the rich would only impede any hope of such a phenomenon.

It is fixable, but it would require a completely different mode of operation. Our entire mindset would need to change, and the liberal nanny state mentality is counter to that mindset. We're getting worse not better.