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REVIEW: Star Wars Episode VIII

Swagnarok
Posts: 1,231
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12/20/2017 7:04:51 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
I'm quite happy right now, because after watching Episode 8 I'm able to conclude that it succeeded where Episode 7 failed.
It did just about everything right. I saw some spoilers ahead of time, and of what I saw of the plot I thought it was gonna suck like its predecessor. But it didn't. It was...awesome. A great way to celebrate 40 years of Star Wars.

This movie tried to mirror the plot of Episode 5, like 7 tried to mirror 4. Rey going to the Irish ruins planet to be trained by Luke mirrored how Luke went to Dagobah to be trained by Yoda. Like with Yoda, Luke passes on peaceably, though Yoda passed on in 6 instead of 5, and the manner in which Luke's body disappeared more closely mirrored Obi Wan's death in 4. The codemaster guy betraying them was akin to Londo Calrissian betraying Solo in 5.
Like in the original trilogy, there's a dialogue between the young good Jedi who's not entirely sure of himself and the (at least marginally) more experienced Sith (if Kylo Ren can be put in that category) who's unsure of his evilness. Like in 5, the young good Jedi is tempted to join with the morally conflicted Sith in overthrowing the established elderly big bad and ruling the galaxy together. In both cases, the young good jedi refuses. One difference: in the original, the offer to join forces (transcending the divide between good and evil) is based on a more conventional "Yo we're family and that's more important" approach, whereas in this one it's based more on them briefly disputing whether good and evil actually exist (in the form of questioning Luke's authority and moral standing as the effective representative of the Jedi order) as well as their seeming shared connection transcending the light and dark side of the force.

This movie is kind of postmodernist in style. It pulls no stops in its efforts to question, mock and parody the common tropes and themes of Star Wars. Luke lackadaisically tosses his lightsaber over his shoulder, Yoda treats the original sacred Jedi scriptures as a laughingstock, etc. In the next film, I would like to see the revived Jedi Order done differently from the original in some meaningful way.
10/10 You have to go see this if you call yourself a real nerd.
And still I advance in this uncharted battleground
My arrows take off to pierce your heart of hearts
I exert myself beyond what I once thought possible
With a clarity that comes from our mutual loneliness
The day I give up trying to breach your cold exterior
Is the day we can laugh and smile in the promised land
Or the day we resign ourselves to this never ending hell
warren42
Posts: 3,781
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12/23/2017 10:06:03 PM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
I agree with most everything you say here. I plan to post my own review shortly. A few questions for you: How did you feel about them killing off Luke? How did you feel about them killing off Snoke? What about how each of them died? What did you think of Rose and Finn's relationship? How did you feel about the casino scene? What about the "Super Leia" scene?
My review of Star Wars that took longer than watching the movie: http://www.debate.org...
Swagnarok
Posts: 1,231
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12/24/2017 5:47:58 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 12/23/2017 10:06:03 PM, warren42 wrote:
I agree with most everything you say here. I plan to post my own review shortly. A few questions for you: How did you feel about them killing off Luke? How did you feel about them killing off Snoke? What about how each of them died? What did you think of Rose and Finn's relationship? How did you feel about the casino scene? What about the "Super Leia" scene?

1. I like it. He died the way that a Jedi should: he passed on from this life peaceably and became one with the force. His mortal body simply ceased to be. Obi-Wan died in the same way, even if technically he was fighting Darth Vader at the time. I don't remember if Yoda's body disappeared, but I know he passed on peaceably as well. This is in contrast to all the prequel trilogy Jedi who died: Qui-Gon Jinn died violently, as did Mace Windu and the other members of the Jedi Order. The Republic-era Jedi lost their way and became more caught up in doing their job of keeping the peace, and preserving their position of power, and in their old traditions. But after Episode III, those few who remained were humbled, and they no longer concerned themselves with fighting wars. They reached enlightenment, and if the new generation of Jedi that Rey will (presumably) raise up are enlightened in this same way, they'll emerge stronger than ever.
2. Episode VIII symbolized the dualistic nature of the force: the dialogue between one good Jedi (Rey) and one evil Jedi (Kylo Ren). Snoke was never part of this equation, and him remaining as Ren's master would've likely been an obstacle to the character's further development. I will say, though: I really liked the aesthetic choice for the design of Snoke's lair. The big fight scene in there was easily one of the best scenes in the film. That oversaturation of red was pleasing to behold, and it emphasized the great power and wealth at Snoke's disposal, up until the moment of his death.
3. I already answered for Luke, so...it was a little disappointing that Snoke, who claimed to have full control over his pupil, was unable to even tell that Ren was about to turn on him. It made him look incompetent, after it had been established that he was one of the most powerful force wielders to ever exist. But I will say that I liked Snoke way better as a guy in a suit than as a gigantic hologram.
4. I liked it. She went from blind admiration to disillusionment to getting to know him on a more equal footing, and then he got to know her. This hampers the prospect of him being Rey's love interest, which is good because the dynamic between her and Kylo Ren established in this movie makes it seem like the two of them would be best off with a sort of tragic romance that was doomed from the start. Finn gets to be happy, and I hope that girl's in Episode IX, and that she doesn't ultimately get killed off.
5. Eh. It was an interesting way of showing how our two worlds are not so different, and of demonstrating how corrupt the galaxy had become as a result of Sidious's actions across the scope of the Star Wars film series. I didn't expect the codebreaker to betray them, or that the well-groomed guy in the suit betting at that one betting table was just a random guy. BB-8's coin attack scene was pretty funny.
6. I think it was a well-done and unexpected nod to the fact that she has Jedi blood in her, a sort of confirmation that by the end of her life she had at least begun to explore her untapped force-wielding potential.
And still I advance in this uncharted battleground
My arrows take off to pierce your heart of hearts
I exert myself beyond what I once thought possible
With a clarity that comes from our mutual loneliness
The day I give up trying to breach your cold exterior
Is the day we can laugh and smile in the promised land
Or the day we resign ourselves to this never ending hell
Swagnarok
Posts: 1,231
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12/24/2017 6:05:36 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 12/23/2017 10:06:03 PM, warren42 wrote:
I agree with most everything you say here. I plan to post my own review shortly. A few questions for you: How did you feel about them killing off Luke? How did you feel about them killing off Snoke? What about how each of them died? What did you think of Rose and Finn's relationship? How did you feel about the casino scene? What about the "Super Leia" scene?

Also, RIP Admiral "It's a Trap" Akbar.
And still I advance in this uncharted battleground
My arrows take off to pierce your heart of hearts
I exert myself beyond what I once thought possible
With a clarity that comes from our mutual loneliness
The day I give up trying to breach your cold exterior
Is the day we can laugh and smile in the promised land
Or the day we resign ourselves to this never ending hell
Nd2400
Posts: 1,444
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12/24/2017 6:07:12 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 12/20/2017 7:04:51 AM, Swagnarok wrote:
I'm quite happy right now, because after watching Episode 8 I'm able to conclude that it succeeded where Episode 7 failed.
It did just about everything right. I saw some spoilers ahead of time, and of what I saw of the plot I thought it was gonna suck like its predecessor. But it didn't. It was...awesome. A great way to celebrate 40 years of Star Wars.

This movie tried to mirror the plot of Episode 5, like 7 tried to mirror 4. Rey going to the Irish ruins planet to be trained by Luke mirrored how Luke went to Dagobah to be trained by Yoda. Like with Yoda, Luke passes on peaceably, though Yoda passed on in 6 instead of 5, and the manner in which Luke's body disappeared more closely mirrored Obi Wan's death in 4. The codemaster guy betraying them was akin to Londo Calrissian betraying Solo in 5.
Like in the original trilogy, there's a dialogue between the young good Jedi who's not entirely sure of himself and the (at least marginally) more experienced Sith (if Kylo Ren can be put in that category) who's unsure of his evilness. Like in 5, the young good Jedi is tempted to join with the morally conflicted Sith in overthrowing the established elderly big bad and ruling the galaxy together. In both cases, the young good jedi refuses. One difference: in the original, the offer to join forces (transcending the divide between good and evil) is based on a more conventional "Yo we're family and that's more important" approach, whereas in this one it's based more on them briefly disputing whether good and evil actually exist (in the form of questioning Luke's authority and moral standing as the effective representative of the Jedi order) as well as their seeming shared connection transcending the light and dark side of the force.

This movie is kind of postmodernist in style. It pulls no stops in its efforts to question, mock and parody the common tropes and themes of Star Wars. Luke lackadaisically tosses his lightsaber over his shoulder, Yoda treats the original sacred Jedi scriptures as a laughingstock, etc. In the next film, I would like to see the revived Jedi Order done differently from the original in some meaningful way.
10/10 You have to go see this if you call yourself a real nerd.

I saw this movie too. Just don't have soo many word to say like you are warren.

Overall this latest Star wars was pretty good. The last two actually been very good. Better than i thought they would be. But I'm a little disappointed on how Luke when. I understand it and respect it. But would had like him to lived on a little bit more.

Just wondering do you have a problem with the new dark side. I think it might be me. But i just think he a little too young and just not evil enough for his character. I though that in the first movie and i still think that. Any thoughts on him?

Oh i also didn't like the Yoda scene that much. I don't think he should had been there or at least not in that scene.

Anyways i think that's going to be all for me. Very good movie though.
Swagnarok
Posts: 1,231
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12/24/2017 6:20:20 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 12/24/2017 6:07:12 AM, Nd2400 wrote:
At 12/20/2017 7:04:51 AM, Swagnarok wrote:
I'm quite happy right now, because after watching Episode 8 I'm able to conclude that it succeeded where Episode 7 failed.
It did just about everything right. I saw some spoilers ahead of time, and of what I saw of the plot I thought it was gonna suck like its predecessor. But it didn't. It was...awesome. A great way to celebrate 40 years of Star Wars.

This movie tried to mirror the plot of Episode 5, like 7 tried to mirror 4. Rey going to the Irish ruins planet to be trained by Luke mirrored how Luke went to Dagobah to be trained by Yoda. Like with Yoda, Luke passes on peaceably, though Yoda passed on in 6 instead of 5, and the manner in which Luke's body disappeared more closely mirrored Obi Wan's death in 4. The codemaster guy betraying them was akin to Londo Calrissian betraying Solo in 5.
Like in the original trilogy, there's a dialogue between the young good Jedi who's not entirely sure of himself and the (at least marginally) more experienced Sith (if Kylo Ren can be put in that category) who's unsure of his evilness. Like in 5, the young good Jedi is tempted to join with the morally conflicted Sith in overthrowing the established elderly big bad and ruling the galaxy together. In both cases, the young good jedi refuses. One difference: in the original, the offer to join forces (transcending the divide between good and evil) is based on a more conventional "Yo we're family and that's more important" approach, whereas in this one it's based more on them briefly disputing whether good and evil actually exist (in the form of questioning Luke's authority and moral standing as the effective representative of the Jedi order) as well as their seeming shared connection transcending the light and dark side of the force.

This movie is kind of postmodernist in style. It pulls no stops in its efforts to question, mock and parody the common tropes and themes of Star Wars. Luke lackadaisically tosses his lightsaber over his shoulder, Yoda treats the original sacred Jedi scriptures as a laughingstock, etc. In the next film, I would like to see the revived Jedi Order done differently from the original in some meaningful way.
10/10 You have to go see this if you call yourself a real nerd.

I saw this movie too. Just don't have soo many word to say like you are warren.

Overall this latest Star wars was pretty good. The last two actually been very good. Better than i thought they would be. But I'm a little disappointed on how Luke when. I understand it and respect it. But would had like him to lived on a little bit more.

Just wondering do you have a problem with the new dark side. I think it might be me. But i just think he a little too young and just not evil enough for his character. I though that in the first movie and i still think that. Any thoughts on him?

I take a little bit of issue with the fact that the First Order is now under the command of Kylo "Whiny Boy" Ren and a pompous, grossly incompetent fascist wannabe. Snoke at least had some basis idea of what he was doing.
The whole idea of a "First Order" was ridiculous. They frigging took down the Empire already, and the idea that there would need to be a "Resistance" to combat what should be the underdog of the two sides (the other being the reborn Republic) seems terribly contrived. They're just desperate to mirror the original trilogy no matter how it comes across, because they're banking on original Star Wars nostalgia to bring in the dough. And it's worked, so far.
But part of the reason I liked this film so much more than Episode VII is because it doesn't feel like a cheap remake.

Oh i also didn't like the Yoda scene that much. I don't think he should had been there or at least not in that scene.

I liked the Yoda scene. It was a reappearance of a character whom I'm sure a lot of fans liked, and he provided some much-needed wisdom to characters who're unsure of how to proceed in these dark times. His being there was also a way of showing that all is not lost, that there's hope for the future. Yoda was once part of the "Jedi Establishment", but in the end the green midget achieved enlightenment too, perhaps more so than any other Jedi shown in the series.

Anyways i think that's going to be all for me. Very good movie though.

Agreed.
And still I advance in this uncharted battleground
My arrows take off to pierce your heart of hearts
I exert myself beyond what I once thought possible
With a clarity that comes from our mutual loneliness
The day I give up trying to breach your cold exterior
Is the day we can laugh and smile in the promised land
Or the day we resign ourselves to this never ending hell