At 5/30/2012 8:37:05 AM, medic0506 wrote:
I've always thought of a bastard mod as a mod who's information can't be trusted as truth. Figuring out where the line is though, isn't really that simple. If we use that definition then any mod who uses some of our most standard roles, would be considered a bastard mod. Here are just a few of the roles that require the mod to give false information to players, thus qualifying as a bastard mod...
Insane, Naive, and Paranoid Cops
That is not a complete list, just a few that immediately come to mind. As you can see, all mods could technically be called bastard mods because we all use those roles, and frankly, games would be pretty dull without them. So where do we draw the line?? At what point do we say that a mod's actions have gone too far, and he has effectively put himself into the game, helping to decide the outcome??
As town is uninformed, accurate information is critical if they are to have a fighting chance. Many times, we lynch people who might be town so that we can gain information. Because of that, I beleive that the line should be drawn at graveyard pm's. If town can't even trust the info gained by someone's flip, then the entire game just becomes a huge guess-fest. At that point it's no longer town vs. mafia/cult/third-parties, it's town vs. the mod. We can't get to the mafia/cult/third parties, until after we've figured out what tricks the mod has put in place to try and hide scum from us. Having complex game mechanics is fine, and has made for some very fun games by imaginative mods, but if town can't even depend on graveyard pm's being accurate, then they don't really stand a chance.
Barring interference with graveyard pm's, I see everything else as fair game, but everyone's tolerance for deceptive tactics by the mod is different. Complaints of bastard modding have increased as game complexity has increased, so what say you??
I was thinking about this subject too, as the term has been thrown around lately with increasing frequency.
At one end, there have been games which, admittedly, were examples of bastard modding (????, whatever the hell FREEDO's game was).
At the other, some people have used the term without really understanding it, such as calling the mere use of the Politician role an example of bastard modding.http://wiki.mafiascum.net...
Here are my thoughts:
The mod is supposed to be impartial. The mod is not a participant in the game (though it is sometimes hard to remain detached). The mod runs
the game, not plays
the game. As such, actively deceiving players about the game is essentially the key characteristics of bastard modding.
Yet, if this were it, then, as medic stated, flavors, godfathers, and millers would be examples. These are very common roles, and they are not considered examples of bastard modding, so what is missing? I think these roles and flavors are exceptions as a result of player expectation.
Players are familiar with the concept and mechanics of godfathers, millers, and flavored roles, to a degree. Players anticipate them and factor them in when making decisions. However, other examples of deceit, such as fake graveyard PMs, letting mafoiosos write the OPS, or even masons who are secretly naive, would delve into bastard modding because these aren't mechanics that we expect or are familiar with.
I am a firm believer that all game mechanics issues should be 100% transparent. Players shouldn't have to guess as to how the game operates. Players should know whether or not certain actions take precedence over others (if my target dies, do I still get results? If I die, does my action still happen? Town actions vs. Mafia actions, etc.), time allotments, whether the phase ends when a lynch is reached, if people can talk after that lynch has been reached, etc. This event extends to the exact nature of how roles operate (can a roleblocker prevent night kills, does a watcher visit his target, etc.)
Take Epic. Whatever criticisms you have about Epic, there is absolutely no question about how the game operates. Every role behaves a specific and explicit way, every time. There is no guessing.
Now, I know that mods are free to use whatever mechanics they wish, and I'm not suggesting they don't, but I think the mechanics they decide upon should be made known.
And that's where I think the bastard modding comes in. Players here have a sense of what mechanics are to be expected only through experiencing them first hand. This creates sort of a baseline of how games are run here. Drastic deviations from this baseline, which aren't made explicit to players, results in bastard games because players cannot factor in these deviations in their decisions.