SWINE FLU turns massively deadly

Most of the U.S. is infected, millions are expected to die.

How will the state of our health care system affect such a nightmare scenario?

With our actual health care infrastructure -- hospitals, medical centers, patient beds, number of doctors -- geared toward existing rationing (and many doctors and nurses are already stretched into having to work obscene overtime to still fall short of meeting the demand of health care for the already well-insured), is it ah well, tough luck for those who have no health care?

It might never happen, but its unreasonable, I think, to presume the U.S. will never be struck with a serious outbreak that threatens serious harm.

I, like I think a lot of people, thought building codes had improved and a strong system had been put in place such that large death tolls would never occur from a hurricane like they did a century ago.

Likewise, I think a lot of people -- though I am not, in this case, among them -- believe the medical technology and talents present in the U.S. would prevent a bonafide disease plague calamity. In this mind, a translation to national defense would be the world's most powerful, kick butt and awesome jet fighter, jet bomber, tank and warship -- but only one of each to protect the entire country. Being lucky at not being invaded is just that, lucky. If we were actually invaded by an army of 1 billion Chinese each wielding nothing more than sticks, all that advanced capability in such a shorted capacity would not be all that useful, would it?

Similarly, my perception is we have a critical shortage of infrastructure. Its already so short that even those with the means to have health care get long waiting lists for a lot of routine procedures ... and of course those without the means to have health care aren't even on the waiting lists, they're just locked out.

Setting aside the regular death toll of 45,000 per year from mere lack of preventive care, how many would die from an infectious disease capacity because if something like that took hold quickly, our corporate-rationed health care infrastructure is inadequate to the task of treating the general population?

Does anyone find that more of a concern?

Swine Flu is no worse than the average flu. UHC argument fail, Ratboi. Besides, I'm pretty sure the health companies have prepared for Swine Flu, though it would be stupid for the government to not give free vaccinations.

I'm unaware of current disease outbreak measures in the United States, but I'm fairly sure that there is a provision that allows the government to overrule private medical facilities and companies in order to accommodate infected patients free of charge. It would only make sense to, since a disease carrier is a threat to the population that would be able to get into hospitals anyways - it is better to deal with everyone that can possibly be infected or is, rather than deny care based on the inability to pay. Cuts down in transmission and spread a lot, and that is more important during a crisis than whether or not companies can make money.

But, regardless of whether it is private or public, medical care is woefully inadequate to handle huge disease outbreaks. I don't think either system is necessarily better to handle it, but it is clear that in the middle of a crisis, you can't force people to pay, not only for the moral reasons involved, but also the strategic.

At 10/2/2009 11:55:13 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Swine Flu is no worse than the average flu. UHC argument fail, Ratboi. Besides, I'm pretty sure the health companies have prepared for Swine Flu, though it would be stupid for the government to not give free vaccinations.

You missed that its a hypothetical scenario, pandaboi, and you just reinforce the delusion that because there is some good medicine in our country that it is adequate to cover 300 million when it cannot even cover the occasional medical needs of 200 million who have adequate insurance.

It went right over your head!

At 10/2/2009 12:04:30 PM, Volkov wrote:
I'm fairly sure that there is a provision that allows the government to overrule private medical facilities ...

My point wasn't so much that. I have no doubt that military and national guard medical resources would be deployed as well, but that comforting ourselves with a rationed health care system like we currently have, to one that is at least able to reasonably handle the regular health care of every American which would require public UHC of some sort, since you can't force an HMO to take a loss by covering those with zero money to pay premiums.

We don't have an adequate medical staff and beds to handle a genuine crisis, and relying on "a crisis can never happen because our medical system is too full of awesome" like Pandaboi deludes himself with is certainly a reckless path, too. It wouldn't matter if the government did commandeer every private hospital, medical care and doctor ... there simply aren't enough of them to meet the need of a huge medical crisis.

Corporate health care is dis-incentivised against preparing for such catastrophes. The safety and well-being of the people as a whole is not their top concern, their bottom line is. When a crisis strikes, it would be too late then for a government takeover to do much to provide adequate capacity, it takes decades to get the infrastructure, especially with bringing the pool of doctors and medical staff up to a feasible level.

At 10/2/2009 11:52:56 AM, PervRat wrote:
Most of the U.S. is infected, millions are expected to die.

The highest I have ever heard is 90,000. And that is an extremely high prediction. Who said millions are going to die?

Anyway, since you want to give free swine flu shots to everyone - how about free cancer treatment, free flu shots, free rehab, free everything?!!?!? We can afford it! Keep thinking that.

At 10/2/2009 12:49:18 PM, PervRat wrote:

At 10/2/2009 11:55:13 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Swine Flu is no worse than the average flu. UHC argument fail, Ratboi. Besides, I'm pretty sure the health companies have prepared for Swine Flu, though it would be stupid for the government to not give free vaccinations.

You missed that its a hypothetical scenario, pandaboi, and you just reinforce the delusion that because there is some good medicine in our country that it is adequate to cover 300 million when it cannot even cover the occasional medical needs of 200 million who have adequate insurance.

It went right over your head!

Ireland has 4 million. America is proportionally richer than Ireland. Ireland can afford the vaccination.

At 10/2/2009 1:01:00 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:

At 10/2/2009 12:49:18 PM, PervRat wrote:

At 10/2/2009 11:55:13 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Swine Flu is no worse than the average flu. UHC argument fail, Ratboi. Besides, I'm pretty sure the health companies have prepared for Swine Flu, though it would be stupid for the government to not give free vaccinations.

You missed that its a hypothetical scenario, pandaboi, and you just reinforce the delusion that because there is some good medicine in our country that it is adequate to cover 300 million when it cannot even cover the occasional medical needs of 200 million who have adequate insurance.

It went right over your head!

Ireland has 4 million. America is proportionally richer than Ireland. Ireland can afford the vaccination.

OMFG!!!!!!!!!!! Panda is arguing against Socialism! I'd never though I'd see the day.

At 10/2/2009 1:02:47 PM, Nags wrote:

At 10/2/2009 1:01:00 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:

At 10/2/2009 12:49:18 PM, PervRat wrote:

At 10/2/2009 11:55:13 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Swine Flu is no worse than the average flu. UHC argument fail, Ratboi. Besides, I'm pretty sure the health companies have prepared for Swine Flu, though it would be stupid for the government to not give free vaccinations.

You missed that its a hypothetical scenario, pandaboi, and you just reinforce the delusion that because there is some good medicine in our country that it is adequate to cover 300 million when it cannot even cover the occasional medical needs of 200 million who have adequate insurance.

It went right over your head!

Ireland has 4 million. America is proportionally richer than Ireland. Ireland can afford the vaccination.

OMFG!!!!!!!!!!! Panda is arguing against Socialism! I'd never though I'd see the day.

I'm arguing against Pervrat socialism.

At 10/2/2009 1:00:29 PM, Nags wrote:
Anyway, since you want to give free swine flu shots to everyone - how about free cancer treatment, free flu shots, free rehab, free everything?!!?!? We can afford it! Keep thinking that.

I like how you're thinking.