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Could the Confederates Have Won the Civil War

ILikePie5
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11/27/2017 2:48:02 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
I personally think that they could have, if a few events didn't occur, such as the death of A.S. Johnston at the Battle of Shiloh and Stonewall Jackson at Fredericksburg. There are of course more, but these are to just name a few....

What are y'all's opinions about this?
FanboyMctroll
Posts: 5,239
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11/27/2017 3:00:18 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 11/27/2017 2:48:02 AM, ILikePie5 wrote:
I personally think that they could have, if a few events didn't occur, such as the death of A.S. Johnston at the Battle of Shiloh and Stonewall Jackson at Fredericksburg. There are of course more, but these are to just name a few....

What are y'all's opinions about this?

So are you saying that for a few events, we could have had a country full of black cotton picking slaves and rmullet wearing rednecks in pick-up trucks with gun racks and confederate flags everywhere??
ILikePie5
Posts: 1,409
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11/27/2017 6:10:41 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 11/27/2017 3:00:18 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/27/2017 2:48:02 AM, ILikePie5 wrote:
I personally think that they could have, if a few events didn't occur, such as the death of A.S. Johnston at the Battle of Shiloh and Stonewall Jackson at Fredericksburg. There are of course more, but these are to just name a few....

What are y'all's opinions about this?

So are you saying that for a few events, we could have had a country full of black cotton picking slaves and rmullet wearing rednecks in pick-up trucks with gun racks and confederate flags everywhere??

It"s possible, yes, but unlikely
FanboyMctroll
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11/27/2017 6:44:19 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 11/27/2017 6:10:41 PM, ILikePie5 wrote:
At 11/27/2017 3:00:18 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/27/2017 2:48:02 AM, ILikePie5 wrote:
I personally think that they could have, if a few events didn't occur, such as the death of A.S. Johnston at the Battle of Shiloh and Stonewall Jackson at Fredericksburg. There are of course more, but these are to just name a few....

What are y'all's opinions about this?

So are you saying that for a few events, we could have had a country full of black cotton picking slaves and rmullet wearing rednecks in pick-up trucks with gun racks and confederate flags everywhere??

It"s possible, yes, but unlikely

So what do you think the USA would look like today if the Confederates won? I mean they were all for slavery.
ILikePie5
Posts: 1,409
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11/27/2017 7:03:14 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 11/27/2017 6:44:19 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/27/2017 6:10:41 PM, ILikePie5 wrote:
At 11/27/2017 3:00:18 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/27/2017 2:48:02 AM, ILikePie5 wrote:
I personally think that they could have, if a few events didn't occur, such as the death of A.S. Johnston at the Battle of Shiloh and Stonewall Jackson at Fredericksburg. There are of course more, but these are to just name a few....

What are y'all's opinions about this?

So are you saying that for a few events, we could have had a country full of black cotton picking slaves and rmullet wearing rednecks in pick-up trucks with gun racks and confederate flags everywhere??

It"s possible, yes, but unlikely

So what do you think the USA would look like today if the Confederates won? I mean they were all for slavery.

To be honest, I don"t know. There are many factors that would have to be considered. I"m just considering if the Confederates could have won. What are your opinions on that specifically?
FanboyMctroll
Posts: 5,239
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11/27/2017 8:08:27 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 11/27/2017 7:03:14 PM, ILikePie5 wrote:
At 11/27/2017 6:44:19 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/27/2017 6:10:41 PM, ILikePie5 wrote:
At 11/27/2017 3:00:18 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/27/2017 2:48:02 AM, ILikePie5 wrote:
I personally think that they could have, if a few events didn't occur, such as the death of A.S. Johnston at the Battle of Shiloh and Stonewall Jackson at Fredericksburg. There are of course more, but these are to just name a few....

What are y'all's opinions about this?

So are you saying that for a few events, we could have had a country full of black cotton picking slaves and rmullet wearing rednecks in pick-up trucks with gun racks and confederate flags everywhere??

It"s possible, yes, but unlikely

So what do you think the USA would look like today if the Confederates won? I mean they were all for slavery.

To be honest, I don"t know. There are many factors that would have to be considered. I"m just considering if the Confederates could have won. What are your opinions on that specifically?

Like I said before, we would have a bunch of trailer trash in mullets waving confederate flags and whipping black people to be their slaves.

This is kind of like the debate, What if Hitler and Nazi Germany won WWII. I guess we would all be Nazi's and there would be no Jews, mentally ill or visible minorities around. it would just be a society of white, blonde people with blue eyes LOL
Vaarka
Posts: 13,025
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11/28/2017 12:14:54 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 11/27/2017 6:44:19 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/27/2017 6:10:41 PM, ILikePie5 wrote:
At 11/27/2017 3:00:18 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/27/2017 2:48:02 AM, ILikePie5 wrote:
I personally think that they could have, if a few events didn't occur, such as the death of A.S. Johnston at the Battle of Shiloh and Stonewall Jackson at Fredericksburg. There are of course more, but these are to just name a few....

What are y'all's opinions about this?

So are you saying that for a few events, we could have had a country full of black cotton picking slaves and rmullet wearing rednecks in pick-up trucks with gun racks and confederate flags everywhere??

It"s possible, yes, but unlikely

So what do you think the USA would look like today if the Confederates won? I mean they were all for slavery.

Slavery likely would've ended up being abolished by now. In fact, the only reason it was still a big thing during the mid 1800s is b/c of the cotton gin. Slavery was, in fact, losing traction in the US after the Revolutionary War, and only picked back up b/c of the invention of the cotton gin.

ofc I could be wrong, considering the use of them in factories as time went on, but I have a feeling if slavery had lasted past the Civil War, it likely would've ended during the Cold War, or shortly after.
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ILikePie5
Posts: 1,409
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11/28/2017 12:41:16 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 11/27/2017 8:08:27 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/27/2017 7:03:14 PM, ILikePie5 wrote:
At 11/27/2017 6:44:19 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/27/2017 6:10:41 PM, ILikePie5 wrote:
At 11/27/2017 3:00:18 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/27/2017 2:48:02 AM, ILikePie5 wrote:
I personally think that they could have, if a few events didn't occur, such as the death of A.S. Johnston at the Battle of Shiloh and Stonewall Jackson at Fredericksburg. There are of course more, but these are to just name a few....

What are y'all's opinions about this?

So are you saying that for a few events, we could have had a country full of black cotton picking slaves and rmullet wearing rednecks in pick-up trucks with gun racks and confederate flags everywhere??

It"s possible, yes, but unlikely

So what do you think the USA would look like today if the Confederates won? I mean they were all for slavery.

To be honest, I don"t know. There are many factors that would have to be considered. I"m just considering if the Confederates could have won. What are your opinions on that specifically?

Like I said before, we would have a bunch of trailer trash in mullets waving confederate flags and whipping black people to be their slaves.

This is kind of like the debate, What if Hitler and Nazi Germany won WWII. I guess we would all be Nazi's and there would be no Jews, mentally ill or visible minorities around. it would just be a society of white, blonde people with blue eyes LOL

That's not necessarily true. There would be many more factors to consider.
Vaarka
Posts: 13,025
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11/28/2017 1:00:14 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 11/28/2017 12:41:16 AM, ILikePie5 wrote:
At 11/27/2017 8:08:27 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/27/2017 7:03:14 PM, ILikePie5 wrote:
At 11/27/2017 6:44:19 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/27/2017 6:10:41 PM, ILikePie5 wrote:
At 11/27/2017 3:00:18 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/27/2017 2:48:02 AM, ILikePie5 wrote:
I personally think that they could have, if a few events didn't occur, such as the death of A.S. Johnston at the Battle of Shiloh and Stonewall Jackson at Fredericksburg. There are of course more, but these are to just name a few....

What are y'all's opinions about this?

So are you saying that for a few events, we could have had a country full of black cotton picking slaves and rmullet wearing rednecks in pick-up trucks with gun racks and confederate flags everywhere??

It"s possible, yes, but unlikely

So what do you think the USA would look like today if the Confederates won? I mean they were all for slavery.

To be honest, I don"t know. There are many factors that would have to be considered. I"m just considering if the Confederates could have won. What are your opinions on that specifically?

Like I said before, we would have a bunch of trailer trash in mullets waving confederate flags and whipping black people to be their slaves.

This is kind of like the debate, What if Hitler and Nazi Germany won WWII. I guess we would all be Nazi's and there would be no Jews, mentally ill or visible minorities around. it would just be a society of white, blonde people with blue eyes LOL

That's not necessarily true. There would be many more factors to consider.

I agree with this. For example, since it has been 70ish years since WWII, odds are that the Nazi party would have died off, or maybe they would have changed their beliefs. On top of that, there were several countries who were not involved in the war, and as such, there was probably a reason. We can't always predict how much territory Germany could have gained (or even Japan), but it's unlikely they would rule the world or anything.

Different ideologies could pop up, a revolution could happen, basically a lot of factors come into play that could've changed it.

This reminds me of Man in the High Castle lol
Beginner Series Mafia Mod. PM if interested***
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"I bet you're thinking right now 'haha I'm a genius'. well you're not" - Valkrin

"You're too young to be so wise, mate. Tone it down a little." - Devilry

*puffs bubble pipe*
levi_smiles
Posts: 286
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11/28/2017 4:23:15 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 11/27/2017 7:03:14 PM, ILikePie5 wrote:
At 11/27/2017 6:44:19 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/27/2017 6:10:41 PM, ILikePie5 wrote:
At 11/27/2017 3:00:18 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/27/2017 2:48:02 AM, ILikePie5 wrote:
I personally think that they could have, if a few events didn't occur, such as the death of A.S. Johnston at the Battle of Shiloh and Stonewall Jackson at Fredericksburg. There are of course more, but these are to just name a few....

What are y'all's opinions about this?

So are you saying that for a few events, we could have had a country full of black cotton picking slaves and rmullet wearing rednecks in pick-up trucks with gun racks and confederate flags everywhere??

It"s possible, yes, but unlikely

So what do you think the USA would look like today if the Confederates won? I mean they were all for slavery.

To be honest, I don"t know. There are many factors that would have to be considered. I"m just considering if the Confederates could have won. What are your opinions on that specifically?

Consider that Jefferson Davis expected to fight two more wars immediately upon resolution with the North: war with Spain for Cuba and war with Mexico for a Pacific anchorage. If the CSA survived intact then it would almost certainly be war with the North again, perhaps now in league with Canada and Mexico. I just don't see many routes to a positive, sustainable outcome for the CSA in any timeline.
levi_smiles
Posts: 286
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11/28/2017 4:26:54 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
What if the CSA successfully bought Alaska in 1867, outbidding a defeated North? Might that ever have proved sustainable?
ILikePie5
Posts: 1,409
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11/28/2017 5:07:21 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 11/28/2017 4:23:15 AM, levi_smiles wrote:
At 11/27/2017 7:03:14 PM, ILikePie5 wrote:
At 11/27/2017 6:44:19 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/27/2017 6:10:41 PM, ILikePie5 wrote:
At 11/27/2017 3:00:18 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/27/2017 2:48:02 AM, ILikePie5 wrote:
I personally think that they could have, if a few events didn't occur, such as the death of A.S. Johnston at the Battle of Shiloh and Stonewall Jackson at Fredericksburg. There are of course more, but these are to just name a few....

What are y'all's opinions about this?

So are you saying that for a few events, we could have had a country full of black cotton picking slaves and rmullet wearing rednecks in pick-up trucks with gun racks and confederate flags everywhere??

It"s possible, yes, but unlikely

So what do you think the USA would look like today if the Confederates won? I mean they were all for slavery.

To be honest, I don"t know. There are many factors that would have to be considered. I"m just considering if the Confederates could have won. What are your opinions on that specifically?

Consider that Jefferson Davis expected to fight two more wars immediately upon resolution with the North: war with Spain for Cuba and war with Mexico for a Pacific anchorage. If the CSA survived intact then it would almost certainly be war with the North again, perhaps now in league with Canada and Mexico. I just don't see many routes to a positive, sustainable outcome for the CSA in any timeline.

Well, the Texan army already defeated Mexico once (I know for a fact, I'm Texan). How does Canada come into play? But again, this is post Civil War. I'm talking about the actual war and whether the CSA could've won
levi_smiles
Posts: 286
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11/28/2017 6:42:03 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 11/28/2017 5:07:21 AM, ILikePie5 wrote:
At 11/28/2017 4:23:15 AM, levi_smiles wrote:
At 11/27/2017 7:03:14 PM, ILikePie5 wrote:
At 11/27/2017 6:44:19 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/27/2017 6:10:41 PM, ILikePie5 wrote:
At 11/27/2017 3:00:18 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/27/2017 2:48:02 AM, ILikePie5 wrote:
I personally think that they could have, if a few events didn't occur, such as the death of A.S. Johnston at the Battle of Shiloh and Stonewall Jackson at Fredericksburg. There are of course more, but these are to just name a few....

What are y'all's opinions about this?

So are you saying that for a few events, we could have had a country full of black cotton picking slaves and rmullet wearing rednecks in pick-up trucks with gun racks and confederate flags everywhere??

It"s possible, yes, but unlikely

So what do you think the USA would look like today if the Confederates won? I mean they were all for slavery.

To be honest, I don"t know. There are many factors that would have to be considered. I"m just considering if the Confederates could have won. What are your opinions on that specifically?

Consider that Jefferson Davis expected to fight two more wars immediately upon resolution with the North: war with Spain for Cuba and war with Mexico for a Pacific anchorage. If the CSA survived intact then it would almost certainly be war with the North again, perhaps now in league with Canada and Mexico. I just don't see many routes to a positive, sustainable outcome for the CSA in any timeline.

Well, the Texan army already defeated Mexico once (I know for a fact, I'm Texan). Asymmetrical warfare vs. strategic invasion. ISIS, for example, was fairly competent in ambush tactics & moving fast but terrible at occupation. I suspect Texas would have been terrible at occupation as indeed the South in general proved in '63.

How does Canada come into play?

A second civil war would have likely revolved around Pacific access & England would have been well motivated to prevent cotton, sugar,etc from flowing east, rather than west via Atlantic & England.

But again, this is post Civil War. I'm talking about the actual war and whether the CSA could've won.

After Fredericksburg? Maybe, if the CSA kept Vicksburg & Richmond. After Chancellorsville? Doubtful. After Gettysburg? No. If Lee had savaged Harrisburg & gone home quickly, perhaps. If Lee had held off invasion until Lincoln was assassinated, perhaps Johnson or another might have sued for peace. My point that even a victory would likely be short-lived.
FanboyMctroll
Posts: 5,239
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11/28/2017 3:12:36 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 11/28/2017 12:14:54 AM, Vaarka wrote:
At 11/27/2017 6:44:19 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/27/2017 6:10:41 PM, ILikePie5 wrote:
At 11/27/2017 3:00:18 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/27/2017 2:48:02 AM, ILikePie5 wrote:
I personally think that they could have, if a few events didn't occur, such as the death of A.S. Johnston at the Battle of Shiloh and Stonewall Jackson at Fredericksburg. There are of course more, but these are to just name a few....

What are y'all's opinions about this?

So are you saying that for a few events, we could have had a country full of black cotton picking slaves and rmullet wearing rednecks in pick-up trucks with gun racks and confederate flags everywhere??

It"s possible, yes, but unlikely

So what do you think the USA would look like today if the Confederates won? I mean they were all for slavery.

Slavery likely would've ended up being abolished by now. In fact, the only reason it was still a big thing during the mid 1800s is b/c of the cotton gin. Slavery was, in fact, losing traction in the US after the Revolutionary War, and only picked back up b/c of the invention of the cotton gin.

ofc I could be wrong, considering the use of them in factories as time went on, but I have a feeling if slavery had lasted past the Civil War, it likely would've ended during the Cold War, or shortly after.

Ok if CSA won, and with the changing times, then black slaves would be working on building Ipads and Iphones now instead of picking cotton. And they would be landscaping instead of the Mexicans
Vaarka
Posts: 13,025
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11/28/2017 3:25:52 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 11/28/2017 3:12:36 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/28/2017 12:14:54 AM, Vaarka wrote:
At 11/27/2017 6:44:19 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/27/2017 6:10:41 PM, ILikePie5 wrote:
At 11/27/2017 3:00:18 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/27/2017 2:48:02 AM, ILikePie5 wrote:
I personally think that they could have, if a few events didn't occur, such as the death of A.S. Johnston at the Battle of Shiloh and Stonewall Jackson at Fredericksburg. There are of course more, but these are to just name a few....

What are y'all's opinions about this?

So are you saying that for a few events, we could have had a country full of black cotton picking slaves and rmullet wearing rednecks in pick-up trucks with gun racks and confederate flags everywhere??

It"s possible, yes, but unlikely

So what do you think the USA would look like today if the Confederates won? I mean they were all for slavery.

Slavery likely would've ended up being abolished by now. In fact, the only reason it was still a big thing during the mid 1800s is b/c of the cotton gin. Slavery was, in fact, losing traction in the US after the Revolutionary War, and only picked back up b/c of the invention of the cotton gin.

ofc I could be wrong, considering the use of them in factories as time went on, but I have a feeling if slavery had lasted past the Civil War, it likely would've ended during the Cold War, or shortly after.

Ok if CSA won, and with the changing times, then black slaves would be working on building Ipads and Iphones now instead of picking cotton. And they would be landscaping instead of the Mexicans

Times change. We might still have a mentality towards blacks that was similar to the 1930s, but I doubt we'd still have slavery at this point in time.
Beginner Series Mafia Mod. PM if interested***
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"I bet you're thinking right now 'haha I'm a genius'. well you're not" - Valkrin

"You're too young to be so wise, mate. Tone it down a little." - Devilry

*puffs bubble pipe*
FanboyMctroll
Posts: 5,239
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11/28/2017 3:43:22 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 11/28/2017 3:25:52 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 11/28/2017 3:12:36 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/28/2017 12:14:54 AM, Vaarka wrote:
At 11/27/2017 6:44:19 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/27/2017 6:10:41 PM, ILikePie5 wrote:
At 11/27/2017 3:00:18 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/27/2017 2:48:02 AM, ILikePie5 wrote:
I personally think that they could have, if a few events didn't occur, such as the death of A.S. Johnston at the Battle of Shiloh and Stonewall Jackson at Fredericksburg. There are of course more, but these are to just name a few....

What are y'all's opinions about this?

So are you saying that for a few events, we could have had a country full of black cotton picking slaves and rmullet wearing rednecks in pick-up trucks with gun racks and confederate flags everywhere??

It"s possible, yes, but unlikely

So what do you think the USA would look like today if the Confederates won? I mean they were all for slavery.

Slavery likely would've ended up being abolished by now. In fact, the only reason it was still a big thing during the mid 1800s is b/c of the cotton gin. Slavery was, in fact, losing traction in the US after the Revolutionary War, and only picked back up b/c of the invention of the cotton gin.

ofc I could be wrong, considering the use of them in factories as time went on, but I have a feeling if slavery had lasted past the Civil War, it likely would've ended during the Cold War, or shortly after.

Ok if CSA won, and with the changing times, then black slaves would be working on building Ipads and Iphones now instead of picking cotton. And they would be landscaping instead of the Mexicans

Times change. We might still have a mentality towards blacks that was similar to the 1930s, but I doubt we'd still have slavery at this point in time.

Well there are still places in Africa that have slavery, so times don't always change. I believe the Taliban uses slaves to harvest opium in Pakistan too
Vaarka
Posts: 13,025
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11/28/2017 5:20:04 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 11/28/2017 3:43:22 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/28/2017 3:25:52 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 11/28/2017 3:12:36 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/28/2017 12:14:54 AM, Vaarka wrote:
At 11/27/2017 6:44:19 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/27/2017 6:10:41 PM, ILikePie5 wrote:
At 11/27/2017 3:00:18 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/27/2017 2:48:02 AM, ILikePie5 wrote:
I personally think that they could have, if a few events didn't occur, such as the death of A.S. Johnston at the Battle of Shiloh and Stonewall Jackson at Fredericksburg. There are of course more, but these are to just name a few....

What are y'all's opinions about this?

So are you saying that for a few events, we could have had a country full of black cotton picking slaves and rmullet wearing rednecks in pick-up trucks with gun racks and confederate flags everywhere??

It"s possible, yes, but unlikely

So what do you think the USA would look like today if the Confederates won? I mean they were all for slavery.

Slavery likely would've ended up being abolished by now. In fact, the only reason it was still a big thing during the mid 1800s is b/c of the cotton gin. Slavery was, in fact, losing traction in the US after the Revolutionary War, and only picked back up b/c of the invention of the cotton gin.

ofc I could be wrong, considering the use of them in factories as time went on, but I have a feeling if slavery had lasted past the Civil War, it likely would've ended during the Cold War, or shortly after.

Ok if CSA won, and with the changing times, then black slaves would be working on building Ipads and Iphones now instead of picking cotton. And they would be landscaping instead of the Mexicans

Times change. We might still have a mentality towards blacks that was similar to the 1930s, but I doubt we'd still have slavery at this point in time.

Well there are still places in Africa that have slavery, so times don't always change. I believe the Taliban uses slaves to harvest opium in Pakistan too

That's Africa. In many cases, these tribes don't possess the same technology that we do.

Besides, the main reason to own slaves was because of their value, which was why slavery was soon to disappear before the cotton gin. With the ending of the trans-atlantic slave trade, it would've only been a matter of time before a slave's value was so low that it inevitably would have ended.

Obviously they don't have to worry about the trans-atlantic slave laws in Africa...
Beginner Series Mafia Mod. PM if interested***
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"I bet you're thinking right now 'haha I'm a genius'. well you're not" - Valkrin

"You're too young to be so wise, mate. Tone it down a little." - Devilry

*puffs bubble pipe*
ILikePie5
Posts: 1,409
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11/28/2017 11:09:15 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 11/28/2017 6:42:03 AM, levi_smiles wrote:
At 11/28/2017 5:07:21 AM, ILikePie5 wrote:
At 11/28/2017 4:23:15 AM, levi_smiles wrote:
At 11/27/2017 7:03:14 PM, ILikePie5 wrote:
At 11/27/2017 6:44:19 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/27/2017 6:10:41 PM, ILikePie5 wrote:
At 11/27/2017 3:00:18 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 11/27/2017 2:48:02 AM, ILikePie5 wrote:
I personally think that they could have, if a few events didn't occur, such as the death of A.S. Johnston at the Battle of Shiloh and Stonewall Jackson at Fredericksburg. There are of course more, but these are to just name a few....

What are y'all's opinions about this?

So are you saying that for a few events, we could have had a country full of black cotton picking slaves and rmullet wearing rednecks in pick-up trucks with gun racks and confederate flags everywhere??

It"s possible, yes, but unlikely

So what do you think the USA would look like today if the Confederates won? I mean they were all for slavery.

To be honest, I don"t know. There are many factors that would have to be considered. I"m just considering if the Confederates could have won. What are your opinions on that specifically?

Consider that Jefferson Davis expected to fight two more wars immediately upon resolution with the North: war with Spain for Cuba and war with Mexico for a Pacific anchorage. If the CSA survived intact then it would almost certainly be war with the North again, perhaps now in league with Canada and Mexico. I just don't see many routes to a positive, sustainable outcome for the CSA in any timeline.

Well, the Texan army already defeated Mexico once (I know for a fact, I'm Texan). Asymmetrical warfare vs. strategic invasion. ISIS, for example, was fairly competent in ambush tactics & moving fast but terrible at occupation. I suspect Texas would have been terrible at occupation as indeed the South in general proved in '63.

How does Canada come into play?

A second civil war would have likely revolved around Pacific access & England would have been well motivated to prevent cotton, sugar,etc from flowing east, rather than west via Atlantic & England.

But again, this is post Civil War. I'm talking about the actual war and whether the CSA could've won.

After Fredericksburg? Maybe, if the CSA kept Vicksburg & Richmond.

Agreed

After Chancellorsville? Doubtful.

Still a chance if JEB Stuart was with Lee and Lee had listened to Longstreet.

After Gettysburg? No.

Still possible if the CSA held Atlanta by the 1864 election. Davis, decided to go on the offensive with John Bell Hood, instead of defending with Joe Johnston who said that he could defend Atlanta for years.

If Lee had savaged Harrisburg & gone home quickly, perhaps. If Lee had held off invasion until Lincoln was assassinated, perhaps Johnson or another might have sued for peace. My point that even a victory would likely be short-lived.

Possibly.
xus00HAY
Posts: 2,259
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12/13/2017 4:49:25 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
Oh c'mon, The Confederates were fighting against the U.S.A , a country with unlimited resources that doesn't lose wars.
xus00HAY
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12/13/2017 4:59:18 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
What the south should have done was get all their citizens to vote for Stephen Douglas in the election of 1860. Instead. they had a 4 way race with Lincoln and Douglas as the Northern republican and democrat, and in the south they had 2 of their own candiddates, Breckinridge, and some other cracker.
Lincoln got 40% of the vote. The other guys got their share of what was left and nobody else got more than 39%.
levi_smiles
Posts: 286
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12/14/2017 4:44:18 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 12/13/2017 4:59:18 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
What the south should have done was get all their citizens to vote for Stephen Douglas in the election of 1860. Instead. they had a 4 way race with Lincoln and Douglas as the Northern republican and democrat, and in the south they had 2 of their own candiddates, Breckinridge, and some other cracker.
Lincoln got 40% of the vote. The other guys got their share of what was left and nobody else got more than 39%.

WIN: most cogent analysis
xus00HAY
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12/15/2017 4:55:56 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
"Still possible if the CSA held Atlanta by the 1864 election. Davis, decided to go on the offensive with John Bell Hood, instead of defending with Joe Johnston who said that he could defend Atlanta for years."
Yeah, Oddly enough General Sherman knew both Johnston and Hood. They were all in the U.S. Army before Johnston and Hood deserted and joined the enemy. Sherman thought Johnston was 1st class, when Bill Sherman learned that Jeff Davis relieved him of command and put Hood in charge, Uncle Billy told his friends something about the good news and this battle would be over soon.
Falkman
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12/15/2017 9:58:58 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 12/13/2017 4:49:25 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
Oh c'mon, The Confederates were fighting against the U.S.A , a country with unlimited resources that doesn't lose wars.

I'm a Civil War and military history buff and am a member of several other forums where this subject is discussed at length.

Being a Texan, there's not much doubt about which side I would have been fighting on if I had been born 100 years earlier. I think the best the CSA could have hoped for would have been for the South to force a costly stalemate on the Union, leading to an armistice and possibly some degree of independence for them.

Jefferson Davis really didn't have much of a military strategy IMO. He should have made his #1 goal the defense of the Mississippi river and New Orleans. Once New Orleans was taken in April, 1862 and Vicksburg fell in July, 1863 the war was effectively over. With the Confederacy cut in half and no military and food supplies possible from the Trans-Mississippi states, attrition from the more powerful Union forces gradually ground down the Confederate army.
ILikePie5
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1/11/2018 1:58:48 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 12/15/2017 9:58:58 PM, Falkman wrote:
At 12/13/2017 4:49:25 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
Oh c'mon, The Confederates were fighting against the U.S.A , a country with unlimited resources that doesn't lose wars.

I'm a Civil War and military history buff and am a member of several other forums where this subject is discussed at length.

Being a Texan, there's not much doubt about which side I would have been fighting on if I had been born 100 years earlier. I think the best the CSA could have hoped for would have been for the South to force a costly stalemate on the Union, leading to an armistice and possibly some degree of independence for them.

Jefferson Davis really didn't have much of a military strategy IMO. He should have made his #1 goal the defense of the Mississippi river and New Orleans. Once New Orleans was taken in April, 1862 and Vicksburg fell in July, 1863 the war was effectively over. With the Confederacy cut in half and no military and food supplies possible from the Trans-Mississippi states, attrition from the more powerful Union forces gradually ground down the Confederate army.

I agree...Defense should have been the strategy. Protect the land that you know..
Leaning
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1/11/2018 5:10:49 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
I think the South had the short end military and economy wise, not that that was unsurmountable.
Their best chance was war weariness in the North in my opinion.
xus00HAY
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2/12/2018 4:56:47 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
Crackers are losers. Their adversary was a country with unlimited resources that doesn't lose wars.
The best the south could hope was to lose quickly, instead of having a long war of attriton.