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Electric cars are going nowhere

FanboyMctroll
Posts: 5,188
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10/16/2017 1:44:56 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
The whole electric cars phase will die off eventually as it did in the early 1920's. There is too much money involved globally in oil, for electric cars to prosper right now. The electric car will be swept under the rug by the big oil companies soon.

Hope you don't drive a Tesla because you will be stuck with a useless car soon like driving a Saturn or a Yogo or Daewoo.

Tesla will fold under the pressure from the oil industry, as displayed in the article here.

https://www.reuters.com...
linate
Posts: 911
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10/16/2017 4:46:46 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
GM said they were going all electric within a decade. i dont think a major auto maker would stake their future on a whim.
FanboyMctroll
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10/16/2017 5:39:40 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 10/16/2017 4:46:46 PM, linate wrote:
GM said they were going all electric within a decade. i dont think a major auto maker would stake their future on a whim.

They all say they are going electric, like Volkswagen and Volvo and China says they will all go electric, but a decade is a long time, and I can guarantee you that the oil companies and their billion dollar lawyers won't let that happen. In a decade we will still be using gas cars.

And I'm fine with that, I think electric cars suck. They lack enough power to go a significant distance and I don't want to pay $1000/month in hydro bills to keep my car charged, and to go 100 miles before looking for a plug. I will stick to my gas car.
kevin24018
Posts: 5,708
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10/16/2017 5:43:34 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 10/16/2017 1:44:56 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
The whole electric cars phase will die off eventually as it did in the early 1920's. There is too much money involved globally in oil, for electric cars to prosper right now. The electric car will be swept under the rug by the big oil companies soon.

Hope you don't drive a Tesla because you will be stuck with a useless car soon like driving a Saturn or a Yogo or Daewoo.

Tesla will fold under the pressure from the oil industry, as displayed in the article here.

https://www.reuters.com...

sounds right, I would suspect/expect a resurgence in hydrogen and biofuel cars, not sure why it hasn't happened by now other than the electric car manufacturers have better marketing. It's never made sense to spend so much money and subsidize electric cars when hydrogen and bio is so much cheaper and in many ways better, talk about short sighted. California wants to outlaw all gas vehicles and go all electric, but you must consider the source. I'd be they could develop compressed air powered cars with the same range as electric (about 200 miles) with fast recharging and 1/3 of the cost.
Perussi
Posts: 3,687
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10/17/2017 6:19:37 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 10/16/2017 1:44:56 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
The whole electric cars phase will die off eventually as it did in the early 1920's. There is too much money involved globally in oil, for electric cars to prosper right now. The electric car will be swept under the rug by the big oil companies soon.

Hope you don't drive a Tesla because you will be stuck with a useless car soon like driving a Saturn or a Yogo or Daewoo.

Tesla will fold under the pressure from the oil industry, as displayed in the article here.

https://www.reuters.com...

Counterargument: Elon Musk's existence.
kevin24018
Posts: 5,708
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10/17/2017 6:37:50 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 10/17/2017 6:19:37 PM, Perussi wrote:
At 10/16/2017 1:44:56 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
The whole electric cars phase will die off eventually as it did in the early 1920's. There is too much money involved globally in oil, for electric cars to prosper right now. The electric car will be swept under the rug by the big oil companies soon.

Hope you don't drive a Tesla because you will be stuck with a useless car soon like driving a Saturn or a Yogo or Daewoo.

Tesla will fold under the pressure from the oil industry, as displayed in the article here.

https://www.reuters.com...

Counterargument: Elon Musk's existence.

have you looked at the stock and predictions? They MAY break even in 2019, if the next best thing comes along.......have you heard
http://www.foxnews.com...
Perussi
Posts: 3,687
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10/17/2017 7:03:09 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 10/17/2017 6:37:50 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/17/2017 6:19:37 PM, Perussi wrote:
At 10/16/2017 1:44:56 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
The whole electric cars phase will die off eventually as it did in the early 1920's. There is too much money involved globally in oil, for electric cars to prosper right now. The electric car will be swept under the rug by the big oil companies soon.

Hope you don't drive a Tesla because you will be stuck with a useless car soon like driving a Saturn or a Yogo or Daewoo.

Tesla will fold under the pressure from the oil industry, as displayed in the article here.

https://www.reuters.com...

Counterargument: Elon Musk's existence.

have you looked at the stock and predictions? They MAY break even in 2019, if the next best thing comes along.......have you heard
http://www.foxnews.com...

This man made a private space business profitable.

Electric cars are going to be a thing eventually, and maybe soon.
kevin24018
Posts: 5,708
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10/17/2017 7:31:24 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 10/17/2017 7:03:09 PM, Perussi wrote:
At 10/17/2017 6:37:50 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/17/2017 6:19:37 PM, Perussi wrote:
At 10/16/2017 1:44:56 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
The whole electric cars phase will die off eventually as it did in the early 1920's. There is too much money involved globally in oil, for electric cars to prosper right now. The electric car will be swept under the rug by the big oil companies soon.

Hope you don't drive a Tesla because you will be stuck with a useless car soon like driving a Saturn or a Yogo or Daewoo.

Tesla will fold under the pressure from the oil industry, as displayed in the article here.

https://www.reuters.com...

Counterargument: Elon Musk's existence.

have you looked at the stock and predictions? They MAY break even in 2019, if the next best thing comes along.......have you heard
http://www.foxnews.com...

This man made a private space business profitable.

Electric cars are going to be a thing eventually, and maybe soon.

possibly, they've been around for 50+ years? and just now gaining ground, don't know if the hydrogen cars and biofuel get some traction they will be much much cheaper and will bury the electric cars for a good while. My dad has a friend that has a Tesla, goes 200 miles on a charge then requires an hour to recharge, oh they live in Florida.....the hurricane......you see the problem there?
FanboyMctroll
Posts: 5,188
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10/17/2017 8:01:26 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 10/17/2017 7:31:24 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/17/2017 7:03:09 PM, Perussi wrote:
At 10/17/2017 6:37:50 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/17/2017 6:19:37 PM, Perussi wrote:
At 10/16/2017 1:44:56 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
The whole electric cars phase will die off eventually as it did in the early 1920's. There is too much money involved globally in oil, for electric cars to prosper right now. The electric car will be swept under the rug by the big oil companies soon.

Hope you don't drive a Tesla because you will be stuck with a useless car soon like driving a Saturn or a Yogo or Daewoo.

Tesla will fold under the pressure from the oil industry, as displayed in the article here.

https://www.reuters.com...

Counterargument: Elon Musk's existence.

have you looked at the stock and predictions? They MAY break even in 2019, if the next best thing comes along.......have you heard
http://www.foxnews.com...

This man made a private space business profitable.

Electric cars are going to be a thing eventually, and maybe soon.

possibly, they've been around for 50+ years? and just now gaining ground, don't know if the hydrogen cars and biofuel get some traction they will be much much cheaper and will bury the electric cars for a good while. My dad has a friend that has a Tesla, goes 200 miles on a charge then requires an hour to recharge, oh they live in Florida.....the hurricane......you see the problem there?

So you drive 200 miles, then pull over to a charging station and sag there for an hour before continuing your journey again for another 200 miles. Wow at that pace you should be able to make it from Florida to New York in about 5 days, awesome!!!
kevin24018
Posts: 5,708
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10/17/2017 8:14:24 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 10/17/2017 8:01:26 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 10/17/2017 7:31:24 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/17/2017 7:03:09 PM, Perussi wrote:
At 10/17/2017 6:37:50 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/17/2017 6:19:37 PM, Perussi wrote:
At 10/16/2017 1:44:56 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
The whole electric cars phase will die off eventually as it did in the early 1920's. There is too much money involved globally in oil, for electric cars to prosper right now. The electric car will be swept under the rug by the big oil companies soon.

Hope you don't drive a Tesla because you will be stuck with a useless car soon like driving a Saturn or a Yogo or Daewoo.

Tesla will fold under the pressure from the oil industry, as displayed in the article here.

https://www.reuters.com...

Counterargument: Elon Musk's existence.

have you looked at the stock and predictions? They MAY break even in 2019, if the next best thing comes along.......have you heard
http://www.foxnews.com...

This man made a private space business profitable.

Electric cars are going to be a thing eventually, and maybe soon.

possibly, they've been around for 50+ years? and just now gaining ground, don't know if the hydrogen cars and biofuel get some traction they will be much much cheaper and will bury the electric cars for a good while. My dad has a friend that has a Tesla, goes 200 miles on a charge then requires an hour to recharge, oh they live in Florida.....the hurricane......you see the problem there?

So you drive 200 miles, then pull over to a charging station and sag there for an hour before continuing your journey again for another 200 miles. Wow at that pace you should be able to make it from Florida to New York in about 5 days, awesome!!!

ikr, you have to find a charging station first....
it's taken this long just to get a car to go 200 miles????? I think this is not the day and age for them, not yet, I think our focus would be better else where.
FanboyMctroll
Posts: 5,188
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10/17/2017 8:21:26 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 10/17/2017 8:14:24 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/17/2017 8:01:26 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 10/17/2017 7:31:24 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/17/2017 7:03:09 PM, Perussi wrote:
At 10/17/2017 6:37:50 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/17/2017 6:19:37 PM, Perussi wrote:
At 10/16/2017 1:44:56 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
The whole electric cars phase will die off eventually as it did in the early 1920's. There is too much money involved globally in oil, for electric cars to prosper right now. The electric car will be swept under the rug by the big oil companies soon.

Hope you don't drive a Tesla because you will be stuck with a useless car soon like driving a Saturn or a Yogo or Daewoo.

Tesla will fold under the pressure from the oil industry, as displayed in the article here.

https://www.reuters.com...

Counterargument: Elon Musk's existence.

have you looked at the stock and predictions? They MAY break even in 2019, if the next best thing comes along.......have you heard
http://www.foxnews.com...

This man made a private space business profitable.

Electric cars are going to be a thing eventually, and maybe soon.

possibly, they've been around for 50+ years? and just now gaining ground, don't know if the hydrogen cars and biofuel get some traction they will be much much cheaper and will bury the electric cars for a good while. My dad has a friend that has a Tesla, goes 200 miles on a charge then requires an hour to recharge, oh they live in Florida.....the hurricane......you see the problem there?

So you drive 200 miles, then pull over to a charging station and sag there for an hour before continuing your journey again for another 200 miles. Wow at that pace you should be able to make it from Florida to New York in about 5 days, awesome!!!

ikr, you have to find a charging station first....
it's taken this long just to get a car to go 200 miles????? I think this is not the day and age for them, not yet, I think our focus would be better else where.

I agree, but all the Greenpeace, tree hugging, green conservative, reducing your carbon foot print, cold press juice drinking hipsters think this is the way to go.
kevin24018
Posts: 5,708
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10/17/2017 8:24:12 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 10/17/2017 8:21:26 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 10/17/2017 8:14:24 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/17/2017 8:01:26 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 10/17/2017 7:31:24 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/17/2017 7:03:09 PM, Perussi wrote:
At 10/17/2017 6:37:50 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/17/2017 6:19:37 PM, Perussi wrote:
At 10/16/2017 1:44:56 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
The whole electric cars phase will die off eventually as it did in the early 1920's. There is too much money involved globally in oil, for electric cars to prosper right now. The electric car will be swept under the rug by the big oil companies soon.

Hope you don't drive a Tesla because you will be stuck with a useless car soon like driving a Saturn or a Yogo or Daewoo.

Tesla will fold under the pressure from the oil industry, as displayed in the article here.

https://www.reuters.com...

Counterargument: Elon Musk's existence.

have you looked at the stock and predictions? They MAY break even in 2019, if the next best thing comes along.......have you heard
http://www.foxnews.com...

This man made a private space business profitable.

Electric cars are going to be a thing eventually, and maybe soon.

possibly, they've been around for 50+ years? and just now gaining ground, don't know if the hydrogen cars and biofuel get some traction they will be much much cheaper and will bury the electric cars for a good while. My dad has a friend that has a Tesla, goes 200 miles on a charge then requires an hour to recharge, oh they live in Florida.....the hurricane......you see the problem there?

So you drive 200 miles, then pull over to a charging station and sag there for an hour before continuing your journey again for another 200 miles. Wow at that pace you should be able to make it from Florida to New York in about 5 days, awesome!!!

ikr, you have to find a charging station first....
it's taken this long just to get a car to go 200 miles????? I think this is not the day and age for them, not yet, I think our focus would be better else where.

I agree, but all the Greenpeace, tree hugging, green conservative, reducing your carbon foot print, cold press juice drinking hipsters think this is the way to go.

yeah I haven't bought into all that considering what it takes to make the batteries etc. when you factor hydrogen and biofuel cars don't need the rare metals mined from China etc, they are more environmentally friendly than electric.
levi_smiles
Posts: 286
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10/18/2017 4:36:17 AM
Posted: 6 months ago

So you drive 200 miles, then pull over to a charging station and sag there for an hour before continuing your journey again for another 200 miles. Wow at that pace you should be able to make it from Florida to New York in about 5 days, awesome!!!

You're thinking too small, McT. By 2025, autonomous cars will be commonplace which means that people will have a choice between driving a car that averages 1 accident every 165,000 miles or riding a self-driving car that averages 1 accident every 4 or 5 million miles. Very quickly, driving yourself will be seen as inherently risky activity accompanied by relatively high insurance requirements. Meanwhile, self-driving cars will not only be safer but much cheaper if don't own a car but just order a car on demand like Uber. The efficiencies of not having to store, clean, fill up, park will be tremendous. Uber & Google anticipate that the cost of riding will be 10% the current cost of owning & driving- pennies per mile. Consider also that that driverless roads means far fewer deaths, no traffic jams, no need for stop signs, lights, etc. In ten years the demand for all-driverless infrastructure is going to be tremendous & cities are going to rapidly convert. That mean a huge number of new cars, probably electric. People will probably still rely on fossil fuels for long distance- trains, planes, buses, but the cities, the commuters are going to use electric self-driving cars for which 200 mile limits are very workable, especially you won't be doing the recharging, the cab services will. I think this model is coming much faster than most people realize- many trucking co's, delivery services, etc are already buying vehicles & lobbying statehouses. Stand by for a fundamental shift in our society & infrastructure.
FanboyMctroll
Posts: 5,188
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10/18/2017 1:32:38 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 10/18/2017 4:36:17 AM, levi_smiles wrote:

So you drive 200 miles, then pull over to a charging station and sag there for an hour before continuing your journey again for another 200 miles. Wow at that pace you should be able to make it from Florida to New York in about 5 days, awesome!!!

You're thinking too small, McT. By 2025, autonomous cars will be commonplace which means that people will have a choice between driving a car that averages 1 accident every 165,000 miles or riding a self-driving car that averages 1 accident every 4 or 5 million miles. Very quickly, driving yourself will be seen as inherently risky activity accompanied by relatively high insurance requirements. Meanwhile, self-driving cars will not only be safer but much cheaper if don't own a car but just order a car on demand like Uber. The efficiencies of not having to store, clean, fill up, park will be tremendous. Uber & Google anticipate that the cost of riding will be 10% the current cost of owning & driving- pennies per mile. Consider also that that driverless roads means far fewer deaths, no traffic jams, no need for stop signs, lights, etc. In ten years the demand for all-driverless infrastructure is going to be tremendous & cities are going to rapidly convert. That mean a huge number of new cars, probably electric. People will probably still rely on fossil fuels for long distance- trains, planes, buses, but the cities, the commuters are going to use electric self-driving cars for which 200 mile limits are very workable, especially you won't be doing the recharging, the cab services will. I think this model is coming much faster than most people realize- many trucking co's, delivery services, etc are already buying vehicles & lobbying statehouses. Stand by for a fundamental shift in our society & infrastructure.

Your post just made me very depressed, thank god I won't be around when all this happens. I love driving my fast muscle car, I love just driving, I will never get into a self driving car. Driving a car has been an American hobby for 120 years, I'm not giving into technology, robots are stupid, they are only as smart as their programmer. I wish I was back in the 60's when you would hop in your car head out to a drive-in or go to a drive thru and the waitress would bring the food tray to your car window, the simple times, when driving a car was cool.
levi_smiles
Posts: 286
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10/19/2017 1:01:30 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 10/18/2017 1:32:38 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 10/18/2017 4:36:17 AM, levi_smiles wrote:

So you drive 200 miles, then pull over to a charging station and sag there for an hour before continuing your journey again for another 200 miles. Wow at that pace you should be able to make it from Florida to New York in about 5 days, awesome!!!

You're thinking too small, McT. By 2025, autonomous cars will be commonplace which means that people will have a choice between driving a car that averages 1 accident every 165,000 miles or riding a self-driving car that averages 1 accident every 4 or 5 million miles. Very quickly, driving yourself will be seen as inherently risky activity accompanied by relatively high insurance requirements. Meanwhile, self-driving cars will not only be safer but much cheaper if don't own a car but just order a car on demand like Uber. The efficiencies of not having to store, clean, fill up, park will be tremendous. Uber & Google anticipate that the cost of riding will be 10% the current cost of owning & driving- pennies per mile. Consider also that that driverless roads means far fewer deaths, no traffic jams, no need for stop signs, lights, etc. In ten years the demand for all-driverless infrastructure is going to be tremendous & cities are going to rapidly convert. That mean a huge number of new cars, probably electric. People will probably still rely on fossil fuels for long distance- trains, planes, buses, but the cities, the commuters are going to use electric self-driving cars for which 200 mile limits are very workable, especially you won't be doing the recharging, the cab services will. I think this model is coming much faster than most people realize- many trucking co's, delivery services, etc are already buying vehicles & lobbying statehouses. Stand by for a fundamental shift in our society & infrastructure.

Your post just made me very depressed, thank god I won't be around when all this happens. I love driving my fast muscle car, I love just driving, I will never get into a self driving car. Driving a car has been an American hobby for 120 years, I'm not giving into technology, robots are stupid, they are only as smart as their programmer. I wish I was back in the 60's when you would hop in your car head out to a drive-in or go to a drive thru and the waitress would bring the food tray to your car window, the simple times, when driving a car was cool.

I've always enjoyed driving across the American West but I'm not so sorry to see the end of driving. Most of driving is being stuck in traffic which is voluntary imprisonment for an hr or two each day. I think we over-romanticize the past. I guess drive-in restaurants were novel fun but there's more drive-in restaurants in my city now than then & I seldom go. Driving in the '60's was also breathing smoggy clouds of leaded fuel down roads lined with cigarette butts & discarded beer cans. And driving was drunk and deadly and dangerous.
I've never understood the American culture of connecting transport to identity- fast cars that never exceed the speed limit, 4-wheel drives that never leave the city, expensive cars that don't outperform or outlast the cheaper cars. Even the idea of muscle cars is so strange- that the number of cylinders in an engine somehow speaks to the owner's physical endowment. I don't deny that these ideas are popular or characteristically American, I just don't find them particularly appealing or rational.
Swagnarok
Posts: 1,557
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10/19/2017 1:08:13 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 10/16/2017 1:44:56 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
The whole electric cars phase will die off eventually as it did in the early 1920's. There is too much money involved globally in oil, for electric cars to prosper right now. The electric car will be swept under the rug by the big oil companies soon.

Hope you don't drive a Tesla because you will be stuck with a useless car soon like driving a Saturn or a Yogo or Daewoo.

Tesla will fold under the pressure from the oil industry, as displayed in the article here.

https://www.reuters.com...

Nah.
The heart has its reasons which reason knows nothing of.
-Blaise Pascal
FanboyMctroll
Posts: 5,188
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10/19/2017 1:05:09 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 10/19/2017 1:01:30 AM, levi_smiles wrote:
At 10/18/2017 1:32:38 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 10/18/2017 4:36:17 AM, levi_smiles wrote:

So you drive 200 miles, then pull over to a charging station and sag there for an hour before continuing your journey again for another 200 miles. Wow at that pace you should be able to make it from Florida to New York in about 5 days, awesome!!!

You're thinking too small, McT. By 2025, autonomous cars will be commonplace which means that people will have a choice between driving a car that averages 1 accident every 165,000 miles or riding a self-driving car that averages 1 accident every 4 or 5 million miles. Very quickly, driving yourself will be seen as inherently risky activity accompanied by relatively high insurance requirements. Meanwhile, self-driving cars will not only be safer but much cheaper if don't own a car but just order a car on demand like Uber. The efficiencies of not having to store, clean, fill up, park will be tremendous. Uber & Google anticipate that the cost of riding will be 10% the current cost of owning & driving- pennies per mile. Consider also that that driverless roads means far fewer deaths, no traffic jams, no need for stop signs, lights, etc. In ten years the demand for all-driverless infrastructure is going to be tremendous & cities are going to rapidly convert. That mean a huge number of new cars, probably electric. People will probably still rely on fossil fuels for long distance- trains, planes, buses, but the cities, the commuters are going to use electric self-driving cars for which 200 mile limits are very workable, especially you won't be doing the recharging, the cab services will. I think this model is coming much faster than most people realize- many trucking co's, delivery services, etc are already buying vehicles & lobbying statehouses. Stand by for a fundamental shift in our society & infrastructure.

Your post just made me very depressed, thank god I won't be around when all this happens. I love driving my fast muscle car, I love just driving, I will never get into a self driving car. Driving a car has been an American hobby for 120 years, I'm not giving into technology, robots are stupid, they are only as smart as their programmer. I wish I was back in the 60's when you would hop in your car head out to a drive-in or go to a drive thru and the waitress would bring the food tray to your car window, the simple times, when driving a car was cool.

I've always enjoyed driving across the American West but I'm not so sorry to see the end of driving. Most of driving is being stuck in traffic which is voluntary imprisonment for an hr or two each day. I think we over-romanticize the past. I guess drive-in restaurants were novel fun but there's more drive-in restaurants in my city now than then & I seldom go. Driving in the '60's was also breathing smoggy clouds of leaded fuel down roads lined with cigarette butts & discarded beer cans. And driving was drunk and deadly and dangerous.
I've never understood the American culture of connecting transport to identity- fast cars that never exceed the speed limit, 4-wheel drives that never leave the city, expensive cars that don't outperform or outlast the cheaper cars. Even the idea of muscle cars is so strange- that the number of cylinders in an engine somehow speaks to the owner's physical endowment. I don't deny that these ideas are popular or characteristically American, I just don't find them particularly appealing or rational.

I totally understand what you are saying and it's true, but what about people who live in rural areas, what you described is city folks and congestion, I live in a small rural town, it's all pick-up trucks here, we have no traffic, I can go for a drive in the mountains and not see anyone for an hour on the road, I don't want some robot driving me around, I enjoy cruising, taking in the smell of the pine trees with the window down, listening to some music. A lot of people have big 4X4 vehicles because we do get a lot of snow in the winter time, the small cars can't get around some of the rural roads in the winter, out in the open country we don't have technology like in the big cities. No WiFi some places, no cell phone service, just quiet and nature. So an electric car would be a dud here. And there are plenty of rural places, Nebraska, Idaho, Iowa, West Virginia, every state has remote areas where people live and they need a dependable gas powered car to get around.
kevin24018
Posts: 5,708
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10/19/2017 1:16:37 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 10/19/2017 1:05:09 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 10/19/2017 1:01:30 AM, levi_smiles wrote:
At 10/18/2017 1:32:38 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 10/18/2017 4:36:17 AM, levi_smiles wrote:

So you drive 200 miles, then pull over to a charging station and sag there for an hour before continuing your journey again for another 200 miles. Wow at that pace you should be able to make it from Florida to New York in about 5 days, awesome!!!

You're thinking too small, McT. By 2025, autonomous cars will be commonplace which means that people will have a choice between driving a car that averages 1 accident every 165,000 miles or riding a self-driving car that averages 1 accident every 4 or 5 million miles. Very quickly, driving yourself will be seen as inherently risky activity accompanied by relatively high insurance requirements. Meanwhile, self-driving cars will not only be safer but much cheaper if don't own a car but just order a car on demand like Uber. The efficiencies of not having to store, clean, fill up, park will be tremendous. Uber & Google anticipate that the cost of riding will be 10% the current cost of owning & driving- pennies per mile. Consider also that that driverless roads means far fewer deaths, no traffic jams, no need for stop signs, lights, etc. In ten years the demand for all-driverless infrastructure is going to be tremendous & cities are going to rapidly convert. That mean a huge number of new cars, probably electric. People will probably still rely on fossil fuels for long distance- trains, planes, buses, but the cities, the commuters are going to use electric self-driving cars for which 200 mile limits are very workable, especially you won't be doing the recharging, the cab services will. I think this model is coming much faster than most people realize- many trucking co's, delivery services, etc are already buying vehicles & lobbying statehouses. Stand by for a fundamental shift in our society & infrastructure.

Your post just made me very depressed, thank god I won't be around when all this happens. I love driving my fast muscle car, I love just driving, I will never get into a self driving car. Driving a car has been an American hobby for 120 years, I'm not giving into technology, robots are stupid, they are only as smart as their programmer. I wish I was back in the 60's when you would hop in your car head out to a drive-in or go to a drive thru and the waitress would bring the food tray to your car window, the simple times, when driving a car was cool.

I've always enjoyed driving across the American West but I'm not so sorry to see the end of driving. Most of driving is being stuck in traffic which is voluntary imprisonment for an hr or two each day. I think we over-romanticize the past. I guess drive-in restaurants were novel fun but there's more drive-in restaurants in my city now than then & I seldom go. Driving in the '60's was also breathing smoggy clouds of leaded fuel down roads lined with cigarette butts & discarded beer cans. And driving was drunk and deadly and dangerous.
I've never understood the American culture of connecting transport to identity- fast cars that never exceed the speed limit, 4-wheel drives that never leave the city, expensive cars that don't outperform or outlast the cheaper cars. Even the idea of muscle cars is so strange- that the number of cylinders in an engine somehow speaks to the owner's physical endowment. I don't deny that these ideas are popular or characteristically American, I just don't find them particularly appealing or rational.

I totally understand what you are saying and it's true, but what about people who live in rural areas, what you described is city folks and congestion, I live in a small rural town, it's all pick-up trucks here, we have no traffic, I can go for a drive in the mountains and not see anyone for an hour on the road, I don't want some robot driving me around, I enjoy cruising, taking in the smell of the pine trees with the window down, listening to some music. A lot of people have big 4X4 vehicles because we do get a lot of snow in the winter time, the small cars can't get around some of the rural roads in the winter, out in the open country we don't have technology like in the big cities. No WiFi some places, no cell phone service, just quiet and nature. So an electric car would be a dud here. And there are plenty of rural places, Nebraska, Idaho, Iowa, West Virginia, every state has remote areas where people live and they need a dependable gas powered car to get around.

Having lived up north in the land of snow and ice, heat is rather important. Electric heaters use a LOT of electricity and car batteries don't like the cold as it is now. Given the current storms etc, having experienced an ice storm where we didn't have electricity for 12 days (some people over 30 days) I'm not too keen on electric cars.
FanboyMctroll
Posts: 5,188
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10/19/2017 1:20:02 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
Having lived up north in the land of snow and ice, heat is rather important. Electric heaters use a LOT of electricity and car batteries don't like the cold as it is now. Given the current storms etc, having experienced an ice storm where we didn't have electricity for 12 days (some people over 30 days) I'm not too keen on electric cars.

Studies have also shown that electric cars lose 30% of their battery life in the cold, now where I live it's -15 for about 2 months a year, that would mean that electric car would only go what 100 miles and then I would have to charge, not practical, maybe for city hipsters sure, but not in the wild north.
kevin24018
Posts: 5,708
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10/19/2017 1:28:23 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 10/19/2017 1:20:02 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
Having lived up north in the land of snow and ice, heat is rather important. Electric heaters use a LOT of electricity and car batteries don't like the cold as it is now. Given the current storms etc, having experienced an ice storm where we didn't have electricity for 12 days (some people over 30 days) I'm not too keen on electric cars.

Studies have also shown that electric cars lose 30% of their battery life in the cold, now where I live it's -15 for about 2 months a year, that would mean that electric car would only go what 100 miles and then I would have to charge, not practical, maybe for city hipsters sure, but not in the wild north.

yeah wind chill off of lake Ontario makes it worse, before I moved south we had some days of -30
the tiny cars like the Smart car were suppose to be the answer for city drivers, yet they don't get as good a gas mileage as a regular car. Seems companies lost so much money on the hybrids they've all but given up on those, not sure when going full electric makes more sense.
FanboyMctroll
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10/19/2017 2:15:59 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 10/19/2017 1:28:23 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/19/2017 1:20:02 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
Having lived up north in the land of snow and ice, heat is rather important. Electric heaters use a LOT of electricity and car batteries don't like the cold as it is now. Given the current storms etc, having experienced an ice storm where we didn't have electricity for 12 days (some people over 30 days) I'm not too keen on electric cars.

Studies have also shown that electric cars lose 30% of their battery life in the cold, now where I live it's -15 for about 2 months a year, that would mean that electric car would only go what 100 miles and then I would have to charge, not practical, maybe for city hipsters sure, but not in the wild north.

yeah wind chill off of lake Ontario makes it worse, before I moved south we had some days of -30
the tiny cars like the Smart car were suppose to be the answer for city drivers, yet they don't get as good a gas mileage as a regular car. Seems companies lost so much money on the hybrids they've all but given up on those, not sure when going full electric makes more sense.

I think Tesla is realizing that now, that's why they just laid off 400 employees, their cars make sense in warm congested cities like Dubai, or LA or Mexico City, but not in northern New York.
kevin24018
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10/19/2017 2:31:57 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 10/19/2017 2:15:59 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 10/19/2017 1:28:23 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/19/2017 1:20:02 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
Having lived up north in the land of snow and ice, heat is rather important. Electric heaters use a LOT of electricity and car batteries don't like the cold as it is now. Given the current storms etc, having experienced an ice storm where we didn't have electricity for 12 days (some people over 30 days) I'm not too keen on electric cars.

Studies have also shown that electric cars lose 30% of their battery life in the cold, now where I live it's -15 for about 2 months a year, that would mean that electric car would only go what 100 miles and then I would have to charge, not practical, maybe for city hipsters sure, but not in the wild north.

yeah wind chill off of lake Ontario makes it worse, before I moved south we had some days of -30
the tiny cars like the Smart car were suppose to be the answer for city drivers, yet they don't get as good a gas mileage as a regular car. Seems companies lost so much money on the hybrids they've all but given up on those, not sure when going full electric makes more sense.

I think Tesla is realizing that now, that's why they just laid off 400 employees, their cars make sense in warm congested cities like Dubai, or LA or Mexico City, but not in northern New York.

that's true, I hope progress is being made with hydrogen and biofuel, though I haven't heard anything about them in a long while. They are probably being paid to NOT develop them any further.
FanboyMctroll
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10/19/2017 2:55:24 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 10/19/2017 2:31:57 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/19/2017 2:15:59 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 10/19/2017 1:28:23 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/19/2017 1:20:02 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
Having lived up north in the land of snow and ice, heat is rather important. Electric heaters use a LOT of electricity and car batteries don't like the cold as it is now. Given the current storms etc, having experienced an ice storm where we didn't have electricity for 12 days (some people over 30 days) I'm not too keen on electric cars.

Studies have also shown that electric cars lose 30% of their battery life in the cold, now where I live it's -15 for about 2 months a year, that would mean that electric car would only go what 100 miles and then I would have to charge, not practical, maybe for city hipsters sure, but not in the wild north.

yeah wind chill off of lake Ontario makes it worse, before I moved south we had some days of -30
the tiny cars like the Smart car were suppose to be the answer for city drivers, yet they don't get as good a gas mileage as a regular car. Seems companies lost so much money on the hybrids they've all but given up on those, not sure when going full electric makes more sense.

I think Tesla is realizing that now, that's why they just laid off 400 employees, their cars make sense in warm congested cities like Dubai, or LA or Mexico City, but not in northern New York.

that's true, I hope progress is being made with hydrogen and biofuel, though I haven't heard anything about them in a long while. They are probably being paid to NOT develop them any further.

I have a friend who works for an oil and gas company, they spend billions of dollars on their lawyers and paying people, buying out new companies that are going green and burying them. When you are making billions of dollars of oil and gas, you will do whatever it takes to keep the money flowing, that is why all the other technology is being buried. Oil and Gas giants have billions of dollars, no other corporation or small business stands a chance against them in court, their lawyers can file injunctions so fast your head will spin.
kevin24018
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10/19/2017 2:59:35 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 10/19/2017 2:55:24 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 10/19/2017 2:31:57 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/19/2017 2:15:59 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 10/19/2017 1:28:23 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/19/2017 1:20:02 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
Having lived up north in the land of snow and ice, heat is rather important. Electric heaters use a LOT of electricity and car batteries don't like the cold as it is now. Given the current storms etc, having experienced an ice storm where we didn't have electricity for 12 days (some people over 30 days) I'm not too keen on electric cars.

Studies have also shown that electric cars lose 30% of their battery life in the cold, now where I live it's -15 for about 2 months a year, that would mean that electric car would only go what 100 miles and then I would have to charge, not practical, maybe for city hipsters sure, but not in the wild north.

yeah wind chill off of lake Ontario makes it worse, before I moved south we had some days of -30
the tiny cars like the Smart car were suppose to be the answer for city drivers, yet they don't get as good a gas mileage as a regular car. Seems companies lost so much money on the hybrids they've all but given up on those, not sure when going full electric makes more sense.

I think Tesla is realizing that now, that's why they just laid off 400 employees, their cars make sense in warm congested cities like Dubai, or LA or Mexico City, but not in northern New York.

that's true, I hope progress is being made with hydrogen and biofuel, though I haven't heard anything about them in a long while. They are probably being paid to NOT develop them any further.

I have a friend who works for an oil and gas company, they spend billions of dollars on their lawyers and paying people, buying out new companies that are going green and burying them. When you are making billions of dollars of oil and gas, you will do whatever it takes to keep the money flowing, that is why all the other technology is being buried. Oil and Gas giants have billions of dollars, no other corporation or small business stands a chance against them in court, their lawyers can file injunctions so fast your head will spin.

you are so right, have you seen the car engine that runs off of compressed air? there are far better and cheaper city car alternatives than electric, electric is pure hype
kevin24018
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10/19/2017 3:00:01 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 10/16/2017 4:46:46 PM, linate wrote:
GM said they were going all electric within a decade. i dont think a major auto maker would stake their future on a whim.

better dump their stock
FanboyMctroll
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10/19/2017 3:09:37 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 10/19/2017 3:00:01 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/16/2017 4:46:46 PM, linate wrote:
GM said they were going all electric within a decade. i dont think a major auto maker would stake their future on a whim.

better dump their stock

What scares me is when they force you to not drive gas powered cars, like levi_smiles mentioned, if they raise everyone's insurance if it's not an electric car to the point that you can't afford insurance on a gas car, then people will have to buy the lame electric cars. Kind of like after the 77 energy crisis, everybody had to downsize their cars because gas became so expensive, all those nice big cars just disappeared after that.
kevin24018
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10/19/2017 3:12:31 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 10/19/2017 3:09:37 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 10/19/2017 3:00:01 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/16/2017 4:46:46 PM, linate wrote:
GM said they were going all electric within a decade. i dont think a major auto maker would stake their future on a whim.

better dump their stock

What scares me is when they force you to not drive gas powered cars, like levi_smiles mentioned, if they raise everyone's insurance if it's not an electric car to the point that you can't afford insurance on a gas car, then people will have to buy the lame electric cars. Kind of like after the 77 energy crisis, everybody had to downsize their cars because gas became so expensive, all those nice big cars just disappeared after that.

California is saying they are going all electric. What about all the shops not equipped to work on them, the gas stations, lack of recharge stations, the cold etc
talk about the land of fruits and nuts.
FanboyMctroll
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10/19/2017 4:11:51 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 10/19/2017 3:12:31 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/19/2017 3:09:37 PM, FanboyMctroll wrote:
At 10/19/2017 3:00:01 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 10/16/2017 4:46:46 PM, linate wrote:
GM said they were going all electric within a decade. i dont think a major auto maker would stake their future on a whim.

better dump their stock

What scares me is when they force you to not drive gas powered cars, like levi_smiles mentioned, if they raise everyone's insurance if it's not an electric car to the point that you can't afford insurance on a gas car, then people will have to buy the lame electric cars. Kind of like after the 77 energy crisis, everybody had to downsize their cars because gas became so expensive, all those nice big cars just disappeared after that.

California is saying they are going all electric. What about all the shops not equipped to work on them, the gas stations, lack of recharge stations, the cold etc
talk about the land of fruits and nuts.

Exactly, that is why I'm never switching, I figure by the time they get the electric car to be as dependable as a gas car I will be dead anyways, so I really don't concern myself about it too much. I just blow past those hipster tesla driving green carbon foot print, bubble wrapped, $7.00 starbucks coffee drinking, skinny jeans wearing, conservatives hipster millenials in my muscle car!!!
Archaholic
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10/19/2017 4:49:12 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
FanBoy, the world will run out of gas at any moment so we have to be prepared. That is why enginneers are developing better and more efficient electric cars. So far it's still expensive, but if we take this technology out of the market there will be no chance to get it better and less expensive.

Biofuel is a good option as well but it requires a good deal of surface which is used to feed the world. I expect people get less dependent on cars so we reduce the energy consumption, especially Americans that waste too much.
FanboyMctroll
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10/19/2017 5:29:48 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 10/19/2017 4:49:12 PM, Archaholic wrote:
FanBoy, the world will run out of gas at any moment so we have to be prepared. That is why enginneers are developing better and more efficient electric cars. So far it's still expensive, but if we take this technology out of the market there will be no chance to get it better and less expensive.

Biofuel is a good option as well but it requires a good deal of surface which is used to feed the world. I expect people get less dependent on cars so we reduce the energy consumption, especially Americans that waste too much.

Archaholic, don't buy into this propaganda from Greenpeace about running out of gas, they have been saying that since the 80's. There are new oil fields found all the time around the world, but because of the climate change and the weather becoming more drastic all the millennials are up in arms over going green. That's fine by me, I will still drive my big muscle car burning 5 gallons per mile, throwing grease ball burger containers out the window because I don't care, this is America home of gluttony and freedom!!! Conserving is for the religious who think the world is coming to an end. I don't have a worry in the world. I'm living the American Dream and loving it.