Sheriff Joe Arpaio

I'm sure many of you know who this guy is. He's a sheriff in Arizona who's being investigated for racial profiling. Basically, he rounds up Mexicans and asks them to show ID. When they can't, he sends them to ICE and has them deported. I've seen him on CNN and even Fox News (I watch it from time to time literally for a laugh); surprisingly even that joke of a station noted that what he was doing was wrong.

The sheriff maintains that he's merely upholding the law and that he's doing NOTHING wrong. When asked about why he stops these people, he literally cited them wearing trashy clothing as enough indication that they're probably illegal immigrants. He admitted that he doesn't only detain those who have committed other crimes (other than being here illegally). To me, it seems like he's obviously doing something wrong. However, I'm sure there must be at least a few supporters here. Thoughts?

Ick, enforcing oppressive immigration law. Whether he's a racist or not is largely irrelevant next to that.

If he does what you describe then he's clearly breaking the 4th amendment. Personally I think we should pass laws that state that legislators and law enforcers who knowingly violate the constitution ought to go to prison, and not simply liable to civil suit, which is often the only recourse for police misconduct.

How is what he is doing wrong?

At 10/27/2009 5:18:44 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
How is what he is doing wrong?

Read the Constitution :)

But asking someone for ID is not a violation of the fourth amendment is it?

At 10/27/2009 7:47:52 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
But asking someone for ID is not a violation of the fourth amendment is it?

Yes, it is. We have a reasonable expectation of privacy. You are allowed to do this kind of thing (ask for a SS card, etc.) if you have probable cause. In other words, say you saw a Mexican engage in what looked like a drug deal. A cop would have every right to stop him and question him, ask for ID, etc. But if they're just walking down the street and someone does this, it could be considered harassment. Joe has been getting away with this because he targets Mexicans. When asked how or why he stops them, he says "you can just tell" they're illegal immigrants because of how they're dressed and whatnot. That's not probable cause. If he did this to an American citizen (and he has), that's a violation of our protections. You can't just stop someone on the street because they look Mexican and infringe upon their rights, even if they are illegal immigrants. We can't forfeit our rights and privacy expectations; doing so would lead a slippery slope towards our own loss.

If you have a system of ID it is implied that someone may have the right to ask to see it at some point otherwise what is the point?

The fourth amendment only covers a reasonable expectation of privacy. It does not seem unreasonable to challenge someone for ID unless you argue that ID itself is unconstitutional.

How is this sheriff expected to clamp down on illegal immigrants?

At 10/27/2009 8:18:02 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
If you have a system of ID it is implied that someone may have the right to ask to see it at some point otherwise what is the point?

The fourth amendment only covers a reasonable expectation of privacy. It does not seem unreasonable to challenge someone for ID unless you argue that ID itself is unconstitutional.

How is this sheriff expected to clamp down on illegal immigrants?

I lost my SS card years ago. If I were asked for it on the street, I wouldn't be able to produce it. Does that mean they should take me down to ICE and hold me there for hours until I can prove that I'm a citizen? That's what you're arguing for. The only difference is that like Joe, you seem to think that this is okay so long as the individual looks Mexican. That's discrimination. It's not his job to crackdown on illegal immigrants; it's his job to protect the citizens of his county.

At 10/27/2009 8:24:42 AM, theLwerd wrote:

At 10/27/2009 8:18:02 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
If you have a system of ID it is implied that someone may have the right to ask to see it at some point otherwise what is the point?

The fourth amendment only covers a reasonable expectation of privacy. It does not seem unreasonable to challenge someone for ID unless you argue that ID itself is unconstitutional.

How is this sheriff expected to clamp down on illegal immigrants?

I lost my SS card years ago. If I were asked for it on the street, I wouldn't be able to produce it. Does that mean they should take me down to ICE and hold me there for hours until I can prove that I'm a citizen? That's what you're arguing for.

If those are the rules then shouldn't you get a new card? If they aren't the rules then why is this occurring?

The only difference is that like Joe, you seem to think that this is okay so long as the individual looks Mexican. That's discrimination. It's not his job to crackdown on illegal immigrants; it's his job to protect the citizens of his county.

It is clearly his job to do both, what I don't understand is that you seem to be demanding either that he does do his job, or that he pretends to be somehow handicapped whilst doing so.

If there is a problem with illegal mexican immigrants surely you can expect law enforcement agents to do a double take on mexicans?

Again what is he meant to do?