At 4/7/2012 10:38:50 AM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
I don't know what to make of this because you see morality as subjective, and that implies these value judgments you're putting on philosophy are in a similar vein. If that's the case you're just saying stuff that's subjective to you, and it leaves me no room to really comment.
You don't see philosophy as a personal endeavor of enriching your own life?
What do you see it as?
That one has a much, much deeper understanding and is more connected with ultimate reality.
Yes, but I think we disagree on which one. And by the way, I think that to suggest that there is a reality outside of the one we readily observe, makes you an idiot.
I'm a firm believer that truth values have to be significant for you to seek them.
Do you really believe you're as much attuned to the universe as Einstein because you believe in his physics, I assume?
I would be just as much attuned to the universe as Einstein even if I didn't believe them. Define "attuned to the universe" because I think you're making up BS terms to validate the significance of being able to read hundreds of pages of Philosophy.
A bold claim, but you've stated you don't want to debate when the fool challenged you. I just want to get back to this argument, because I have a new take on it.
I'll follow through. I don't like the rigidity of an actual debate, but I'd be more than happy to dedicate an entire thread on the forum to it.
You basically believe your own philosophical development is adequate, to say the least. You didn't read much if any of these old dead men, and so you conclude that these old, dead men are unnecessary for philosophical development. This point of development really isn't uncommon, has there been any ideas you've read and adopted? Any? I almost feel like it's someone saying fiction is useless without having read any of it.
Well, let's see. I started off as a Christian, fell in love with Science and consequently rejected Christianity. I became an atheist and I started to go on a very long crusade against Religion. Along the way, I picked up and dropped many things on forums here and there. The things which I believed which were proven wrong, I dropped. That which hasn't, stayed. I eventually learned that the things I came up with all by myself had names and were discovered by other philosophers long before me. I don't take full credit because I was prompted by well-educated people.
I started high-school and refined my arguments. I continued my crusade against religion. I developed a crude version of my views on morality, but couldn't defend it very well. I started to really develop a love for philosophy, being forced to defend answers to the "deep questions" you keep mentioning. I was a huge proponent of reason and logic, of delving for the truth of ultimate reality, and all of those things you BS about now.
I started college, when I took my first Philosophy, Theology, and Ethics core classes alongside my actual major. I was assigned reading which I understood magnificently and excelled in, but which I found boring and a waste of time. None of the questions given were challenging. I enjoyed Theology much more than Philosophy because I had more to learn.
After my undergraduate years came to an end, I had a revelation. That revelation was that Philosophy was a waste of time unless it could be applied to real life. That revelation came at the same time responsibilities came up. Working, interviewing, being judged, learning how to function in a workplace, interacting with professors as equals on projects, rent, family, etc.
What is the purpose in wasting my entire life talking about nonsense when it did not manifest in my actual life? It's easy to worry about 200 pages of nonsense when you don't have a wife or kids, or your boss breathing down your neck, when you don't have a mortgage or a lack of job security. It's easy to be idealistic when you live in a dorm and your meal plans are paid for, and the only thing you need to do is meet the deadline for that next paper.
Happiness is our drive for life, and I used to believe that Philosophy provided that happiness. It didn't. In fact, the things that provide the most happiness are the things that make you feel the most illogical and irrational, the simplest things.
From that point on, I started to rethink everything. I dropped my atheistic viewpoints after mulling over them for a long time. I started to defend theists against atheists using the stance of agnosticism. It fit. It felt good. The theme of practicality manifests itself in every argument I participate in, and for once, I don't feel like I'm full of sh*t.
So the question you have to ask yourself as a Philosophy major is this: How much of what you know is bullsh*t, and how much of it, actually matters?
You seem to have a pretty low view of me because you don't consider me as deep or profound as you are, that I don't seem to *care* about the "deep issues". You're quick to lead a comment off with "Oh, I was like that back when I was your age", so I feel more than justified in doing the same to you. Buddy, I was just like you back when I was your age.
You view me as a layperson. I view you as a garbage collector. It doesn't matter whether or not I've read thousands of pages of nonsense. That shouldn't be a requirement for you to prove their value to me. I should be able to see that manifest in some way in our discussions. If you're truly so much more deep and profound than I am, why can't you, in your depth and profundity, move me with something I haven't considered? Why can't you give me something that matters to me, that I would sit and think about?
Say what you want about my depth and profundity, but I'm not a close-minded person. I may not know as much academic nonsense as your do, but my capacity for understanding and grasping concepts most likely meets or possibly even exceeds yours, because I've never been dependent on having others think for me, and I've been doing that for much, MUCH, MUCH longer than 3 years.
So, I submit to you my challenge. Move me. Flex your knowledge. I'm receptive.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.
: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.