God cannot love or be Love.

At 1/16/2012 5:02:17 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:

At 1/15/2012 4:26:20 PM, Physik wrote:

At 1/15/2012 4:20:42 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:

At 1/11/2012 7:35:26 PM, GreatestIam wrote:

At 1/11/2012 5:02:02 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:

At 1/9/2012 7:15:42 AM, GreatestIam wrote:

At 1/9/2012 4:04:30 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Autonomy IS sin!

Autonomy IS death!

Which is why God gave them the strictest possible warning.. Which is why God's word IS life..

The Word became flesh and made His dwelling amongst us!

And you want to debate. How droll.

Regards
DL

Do you see how easily your 'love' -your goodwill, your patience, your grace etc is overcome? We are all so proud that it is easily done!

And this is an important part of the Gospel, the good news: that the world COULD NOT overcome Jesus' love! His best friends betrayed and abandoned Him, His own religion handed Him over to unbelievers who mocked and spat and abused Him and then, finally, stripped Him naked and nailed Him to a shameful cross, fit only for murderers and thieves..

And from that cross what did He do? He prayed for them, that their (ours!) sins might not be held against them..

Try to see that you are only trying to 'offend' me in to not loving you and thereby giving you power over me..

The only thing offensive to me is seeing a grown man with his head up his God's as s and using the bible as his external conscience instead of sheading himself of his genocidal son murderer and looking into his own heart for guidance.



If your God was a God of love, he would not have planned, even before creating man, to have his son murdered.

Would you follow your God's example in this or would you do the right thing yourself and pay the ransom that you yourself put on his head?

Listen to that link and weap for your pathetic God.

Regards
DL

Murdered is the wrong term; Jesus said that He gave His life freely and that 'no one takes it from me' and as John testified 'then He gave up His spirit'..

Gods eternal purpose is to save sinners; the redeemed! Sure He created us weak enough to fall but the alternative would be a billion begotten sons.. A hall of mirrors!

The Lord bless you and yours.

I feel like I can always go back to this with you:

So god/his son sent god/his son down to earth to be killed, thereby saving us from god/his son.

God creates us flawed, blames us for that imperfection, and subsequently sentences us to an eternity of torment if we exhibit the traits he himself put there.

You have no logical argument whatsoever as to how this can be defined as 'love'.

No, to save us from 'unbegotteness'.. from not being perfect and so unable to overcome sin.. the alternative would be a million begotten sons, a hall of mirrors.. an eternal horror!

You're not taking the time to read the posts, but that's ok.. I have access to infinite patience!

At 1/16/2012 3:23:12 PM, Physik wrote:

At 1/16/2012 3:43:49 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:

At 1/15/2012 4:26:20 PM, Physik wrote:

At 1/15/2012 4:20:42 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:

At 1/11/2012 7:35:26 PM, GreatestIam wrote:

At 1/11/2012 5:02:02 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:

At 1/9/2012 7:15:42 AM, GreatestIam wrote:

At 1/9/2012 4:04:30 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Autonomy IS sin!

Autonomy IS death!

Which is why God gave them the strictest possible warning.. Which is why God's word IS life..

The Word became flesh and made His dwelling amongst us!

And you want to debate. How droll.

Regards
DL

Do you see how easily your 'love' -your goodwill, your patience, your grace etc is overcome? We are all so proud that it is easily done!

And this is an important part of the Gospel, the good news: that the world COULD NOT overcome Jesus' love! His best friends betrayed and abandoned Him, His own religion handed Him over to unbelievers who mocked and spat and abused Him and then, finally, stripped Him naked and nailed Him to a shameful cross, fit only for murderers and thieves..

And from that cross what did He do? He prayed for them, that their (ours!) sins might not be held against them..

Try to see that you are only trying to 'offend' me in to not loving you and thereby giving you power over me..

The only thing offensive to me is seeing a grown man with his head up his God's as s and using the bible as his external conscience instead of sheading himself of his genocidal son murderer and looking into his own heart for guidance.



If your God was a God of love, he would not have planned, even before creating man, to have his son murdered.

Would you follow your God's example in this or would you do the right thing yourself and pay the ransom that you yourself put on his head?

Listen to that link and weap for your pathetic God.

Regards
DL

Murdered is the wrong term; Jesus said that He gave His life freely and that 'no one takes it from me' and as John testified 'then He gave up His spirit'..

Gods eternal purpose is to save sinners; the redeemed! Sure He created us weak enough to fall but the alternative would be a billion begotten sons.. A hall of mirrors!

The Lord bless you and yours.

I feel like I can always go back to this with you:

So god/his son sent god/his son down to earth to be killed, thereby saving us from god/his son.

God creates us flawed, blames us for that imperfection, and subsequently sentences us to an eternity of torment if we exhibit the traits he himself put there.

You have no logical argument whatsoever as to how this can be defined as 'love'.

God gave man free will, which is not flawed or inherently bad. Nor did God give us a predisposition to sin. Like money or power it can lead man to do bad things but it is not inherently bad. While God is not create a perfect creature, as I have never met a man who is omnipotent, omniscient ect. What God did create was GOOD .

If he did not create a perfect creature, and had the capability to, then to blame us for imperfection is straight up evil. How on earth are you defining good?

Who also make another flaw. God never punished us for being imperfect. God punishes us for our disobedience. God, having authority over his creation, laid out clearly set laws and rules. Adam and Eve, knowing what awaited them should they disobey, chose to do so anyway. They always had the choice to do the opposite.

In the face of an omnipotent and omniscient being, free will is an illusion, as everything that has occurred or ever will occur is done with the approval of this being.

So god laid out some rules, created a disobedient Adam and Eve, then got so angry at their disobedience (which he himself put there), that he sentenced the entire human race to hell unless individuals say "I love you god". This is not 'good' by any sane definition of the word. This is cruel, terrible, malevolent and a touch narcissistic.

Now you could say that all people would have disobeyed God event eventually. However we then bring up the case of Mary, the mother of God. She was born without original sin and, according to Christian theology never sinned. She always choose to follow God's command. This goes to show that God did not punish us for our flaws. It also shows that sinning was not inevitable. It shows that we go to hell because of our sins.

I think I pretty much made this irrelevant in the last paragraphs.

Question. Think, for example, of all the people of, say, China, at around 100 A.D.

These people must all be in hell, simply because their geographical location did not allow them to hear the 'good' news quickly enough. Hell, people around the world today die without hearing a mention of your god, they must therefore be going to hell through absolutely no fault of their own. Why on earth do you call this 'good'?

At 1/16/2012 7:34:57 AM, GreatestIam wrote:

At 1/16/2012 3:43:49 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:

Murdered is the wrong term; Jesus said that He gave His life freely and that 'no one takes it from me' and as John testified 'then He gave up His spirit'..

Murder is the right term when a killing is planned well in advance.
Jesus also said---my father who sent me.
Do not try to cheery pick because I can as well.

Gods eternal purpose is to save sinners; the redeemed! Sure He created us weak enough to fall but the alternative would be a billion begotten sons.. A hall of mirrors!

Then he is doing a poor job as many are called and few accepted. He is quite incompetent.

At 1/16/2012 11:39:59 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:

At 1/16/2012 3:23:12 PM, Physik wrote:

At 1/16/2012 3:43:49 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:

At 1/15/2012 4:26:20 PM, Physik wrote:

At 1/15/2012 4:20:42 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:

At 1/11/2012 7:35:26 PM, GreatestIam wrote:

At 1/11/2012 5:02:02 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:

At 1/9/2012 7:15:42 AM, GreatestIam wrote:

At 1/9/2012 4:04:30 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Autonomy IS sin!

Autonomy IS death!

Which is why God gave them the strictest possible warning.. Which is why God's word IS life..

The Word became flesh and made His dwelling amongst us!

And you want to debate. How droll.

Regards
DL

Do you see how easily your 'love' -your goodwill, your patience, your grace etc is overcome? We are all so proud that it is easily done!

And this is an important part of the Gospel, the good news: that the world COULD NOT overcome Jesus' love! His best friends betrayed and abandoned Him, His own religion handed Him over to unbelievers who mocked and spat and abused Him and then, finally, stripped Him naked and nailed Him to a shameful cross, fit only for murderers and thieves..

And from that cross what did He do? He prayed for them, that their (ours!) sins might not be held against them..

Try to see that you are only trying to 'offend' me in to not loving you and thereby giving you power over me..

The only thing offensive to me is seeing a grown man with his head up his God's as s and using the bible as his external conscience instead of sheading himself of his genocidal son murderer and looking into his own heart for guidance.



If your God was a God of love, he would not have planned, even before creating man, to have his son murdered.

Would you follow your God's example in this or would you do the right thing yourself and pay the ransom that you yourself put on his head?

Listen to that link and weap for your pathetic God.

Regards
DL

Murdered is the wrong term; Jesus said that He gave His life freely and that 'no one takes it from me' and as John testified 'then He gave up His spirit'..

Gods eternal purpose is to save sinners; the redeemed! Sure He created us weak enough to fall but the alternative would be a billion begotten sons.. A hall of mirrors!

The Lord bless you and yours.

I feel like I can always go back to this with you:

So god/his son sent god/his son down to earth to be killed, thereby saving us from god/his son.

God creates us flawed, blames us for that imperfection, and subsequently sentences us to an eternity of torment if we exhibit the traits he himself put there.

You have no logical argument whatsoever as to how this can be defined as 'love'.

God gave man free will, which is not flawed or inherently bad. Nor did God give us a predisposition to sin. Like money or power it can lead man to do bad things but it is not inherently bad. While God is not create a perfect creature, as I have never met a man who is omnipotent, omniscient ect. What God did create was GOOD .

If he did not create a perfect creature, and had the capability to, then to blame us for imperfection is straight up evil. How on earth are you defining good?

God is perfection. However when he created us, did he create a race of gods. No as we are subservient to a higher power. Not only that but we lack the qualities that our God has. We are neither omniscient and omnipotent. These are attributes that cannot fit the mortal realm and thus cannot be given to mortal creatures. These imperfections do not cause evil.

Who also make another flaw. God never punished us for being imperfect. God punishes us for our disobedience. God, having authority over his creation, laid out clearly set laws and rules. Adam and Eve, knowing what awaited them should they disobey, chose to do so anyway. They always had the choice to do the opposite.

In the face of an omnipotent and omniscient being, free will is an illusion, as everything that has occurred or ever will occur is done with the approval of this being.

Prove that free will does not exist. Prove that is does not exist in the face of the Christian God. You have given me no reason to believe you are doing anything other than asserting unproven points to make an argument.

So god laid out some rules, created a disobedient Adam and Eve, then got so angry at their disobedience (which he himself put there), that he sentenced the entire human race to hell unless individuals say "I love you god". This is not 'good' by any sane definition of the word. This is cruel, terrible, malevolent and a touch narcissistic.

God did not create a disobedient Adam and Eve. God gave them a choice and they chose to go against God. Adam and Eve were not created with the tendency to sin. Free will does not create evil. As I have stated in the following paragraph, Mary was born the same way as Adam and Eve. She had free will but no original sin. However she never sinned.

Now you could say that all people would have disobeyed God event eventually. However we then bring up the case of Mary, the mother of God. She was born without original sin and, according to Christian theology never sinned. She always choose to follow God's command. This goes to show that God did not punish us for our flaws. It also shows that sinning was not inevitable. It shows that we go to hell because of our sins.

I think I pretty much made this irrelevant in the last paragraphs.

No you haven't

Question. Think, for example, of all the people of, say, China, at around 100 A.D.

These people must all be in hell, simply because their geographical location did not allow them to hear the 'good' news quickly enough. Hell, people around the world today die without hearing a mention of your god, they must therefore be going to hell through absolutely no fault of their own. Why on earth do you call this 'good'?

Who is to say that God would reveal himself to them at the moments of their death? Besides, according to Vatican 2, those who seek God and do good works may still receive God's salvation, regardless of whether or not their search leads them to Christianity.