Location of Heaven Important Question

The universe is described as a triangle, a pyramid if you will, by 4 dimensions(Ephesians 3:18), breadth, length, depth, and height. Its divided into 3 main parts(Heaven above) Water below(Crystal Sea) Empty Space for the Solar System, and Water below our Solar system(Gen 1:7-8). Psalm 148:4 says there is water above us(above space) which is the Crystal Sea. That separates Heaven from Outer Space.

At 7/30/2012 11:31:06 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:

At 7/30/2012 11:04:05 AM, MattDescopa wrote:
I would like an answer from learned christians as this is an issue that arised when thinking about the ressurection. You see Jesus rose from the dead into heaven, but where is heaven? It isn't in the sky so where did Jesus go, space??

If heaven is in another dimension, why did he have to rise so high? He should have just switched dimensions. I'm confused.

I think it's the Black Hole at the center of the galaxy.

Is Stephen Hawking there, too, then? XD

At 7/30/2012 1:46:46 PM, acvavra wrote:
The universe is described as a triangle, a pyramid if you will, by 4 dimensions(Ephesians 3:18), breadth, length, depth, and height. Its divided into 3 main parts(Heaven above) Water below(Crystal Sea) Empty Space for the Solar System, and Water below our Solar system(Gen 1:7-8). Psalm 148:4 says there is water above us(above space) which is the Crystal Sea. That separates Heaven from Outer Space.

crystal sea?? what is breadth?

At 7/30/2012 1:52:18 PM, MattDescopa wrote:

At 7/30/2012 1:46:46 PM, acvavra wrote:
The universe is described as a triangle, a pyramid if you will, by 4 dimensions(Ephesians 3:18), breadth, length, depth, and height. Its divided into 3 main parts(Heaven above) Water below(Crystal Sea) Empty Space for the Solar System, and Water below our Solar system(Gen 1:7-8). Psalm 148:4 says there is water above us(above space) which is the Crystal Sea. That separates Heaven from Outer Space.

crystal sea?? what is breadth?

The frozen sea of Rev 4:6. Breadth is width.

At 7/30/2012 12:24:13 PM, MattDescopa wrote:

At 7/30/2012 12:15:13 PM, Ren wrote:

At 7/30/2012 11:53:04 AM, MattDescopa wrote:

At 7/30/2012 11:47:53 AM, Ren wrote:

At 7/30/2012 11:33:21 AM, MattDescopa wrote:

At 7/30/2012 11:28:07 AM, Ren wrote:

Jesus went to Hell first.

Heaven isn't really described in the Bible, aside from hyperbolic appeals to what's typically considered attractive or suggestive of wealth, such as gold, diamonds, pearls, and large homes.

What I'm saying is where did Jesus rise to after the ressurection?? Heaven isn't in the sky.

Well, none of our presidents ascended into the sky when they rose to presidency, either. :\

What?? I don't understand what your saying.

My point is that you're hinging to much on terminology. If you believe that the Bible is literal, then you might as well become an Atheist, because the Earth was not "created" in 6 days, you can't fit the world's fauna and flora on a single boat made by hand, and you can't prove that God isn't simply a trickster screwing with humanity, as He would clearly be the sort that would wrestle (with Jacob) in the middle of the desert, and cheat (giving Jacob a permanent limp).

I would like to make one point when you say literal. You can't be a true christian if you don't take the bible seriously. Right now, you basically said that Genesis is false. Genesis is the word of God, I guess that means you reject God's word right?

If Genesis is false, How can you call yourself a christian? If the bible is a huge myth as you believe, then whats the difference between you and an atheist other than the labels????

I didn't say that it's false, I said that it isn't literal. Everything requires a contextual interpretation.

Take emergency exits, for example. They are there for emergencies, and are functional during emergencies. Does that mean that they can't be used while there isn't an emergency? Of course not. Does it mean that they're the only exists while there's an emergency?

What about those signs that instruct you to always take the staircase in the event of a fire, and never the elevators -- what if the staircase is on fire, but the elevators are functional? You just gonna sit there however many stories and up and burn to death, and take your chances with the elevator?

Now, lets say you get outside using the elevator. Is that cautionary sign now false?

At 7/30/2012 3:17:15 PM, Ren wrote:
Take emergency exits, for example. They are there for emergencies, and are functional during emergencies. Does that mean that they can't be used while there isn't an emergency? Of course not. Does it mean that they're the only exits while there's an emergency? Of course not.

What about those signs that instruct you to always take the staircase in the event of a fire, and never the elevators -- what if the staircase is on fire, but the elevators are functional? You just gonna sit there however many stories and up and burn to death, or take your chances with the elevator?

Srsly, I'm just going to start filling up thread after thread with correction posts after too long...

At 7/30/2012 11:31:10 AM, MattDescopa wrote:

At 7/30/2012 11:18:02 AM, phantom wrote:
Sorry.

As a former Christian, I'll try to answer from that standpoint.

I would say heaven would most likely be in another dimension. Possibly a dimension totally seperate from time so that when we died we did not neccessarily go to heaven, because that would assume heaven followed the time flow of earth. When Jesus asscended into the sky it could be likely that he did not actually go up to heaven but the recorders of the event just saw it that way.

Where did jesus ascend to then? space? Where did he go in space? If he went into space, why didn't he tell the whole world about this important knowledge?

Every Christian believes that the rising of Jesus was into Heaven. This somehow presupposes that heaven is in the sky when it isn't.

I can't really take your answer at the end because that would mean the gospels are false.

The Fool:LOL.

At 7/30/2012 11:35:24 AM, phantom wrote:

At 7/30/2012 11:31:10 AM, MattDescopa wrote:

At 7/30/2012 11:18:02 AM, phantom wrote:
Sorry.

As a former Christian, I'll try to answer from that standpoint.

I would say heaven would most likely be in another dimension. Possibly a dimension totally seperate from time so that when we died we did not neccessarily go to heaven, because that would assume heaven followed the time flow of earth. When Jesus asscended into the sky it could be likely that he did not actually go up to heaven but the recorders of the event just saw it that way.

Where did jesus ascend to then? space? Where did he go in space?

Maybe he ascended into the skies and then into a different dimension, heaven.

If he went into space, why didn't he tell the whole world about this important knowledge?

Why is it important?

Every Christian believes that the rising of Jesus was into Heaven. This somehow presupposes that heaven is in the sky when it isn't.

No it doesn't. He didn't have to float into heaven.

The Fool: but with what justification do you pick and choose what God means? What method are you using to demarcate what he "really means" from what he said. It says that he went up to heaven the SKIES were refered to as the Heavens at the time of the bible. How do know when you change the meaning to something else. ??? Its seem that you need pretty divine powers to know his secret codes.

I can't really take your answer at the end because that would mean the gospels are false.

Parts of it yep. Humans are prone to error, especially emperical knowledge.

The Fool: but we are self correcting overtime.

At 7/30/2012 12:28:41 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:

At 7/30/2012 11:47:09 AM, stubs wrote:
Yeah the bible says Jesus ascended into heaven so best biblical guess is it is up somewhere haha:

Where is "up" when the world is round?

The Fool: Exacly because they thought the earth was flat!!! Because it made up by humans who were ignorance of how the world work. Theolgins just keep changing the meanings when they feel fit to make it make sense with what we are learning. But if the bible is Gods word NOBODY has a right to change ANY meaning what so ever. There is no way to know what God really meant to say but didn't say. They also thought you go to heaven as you are. There is not reason for God to leave a dead carcous with him into another dimension. The BIBLE was mean to be literal. To say that he his word was in secret riddles that only theologins can know about whenever we learn of something new.

The Fool: There is no logical reason for god to take a dead physical body into another dimensions of no bodies. THey BIBLE was literal, It was just a mythology like all the other mythologies which were all used at the times for the very same purpose. Making it easier to controll and unite mass populations. Even Socrates who was of Greek, and thus part of the elitist Greek knowledge,. , in This one worked a little to well, into a disaster of Humanity, They didnt' have policing, or education sytstems like now. They only had Martial Law. With left over solders they may have around. . the Republic says specifacally that the perfect state must have Great MYTH, To keep the state together. It is the Greek portion of eastern Roman empire whos Goverment just happen to hand pick a bunch of mythological stories to create the cannon of the BIBLE. They were also in control the Jews making it all to convenient to Throw in the OLD testimate to gain nire authority over them. The original Orthadox Christian BIBLE just happen to have the Emperor as the direct connection to God. HOW CONVIENIENT. it wasn't till 100's of years later the western Empire came up with thier latin remix of the Orignal Greek bible. Most commandments made sense for the times. Don't have sex before you married made sense when there was no birth control and woman got married at 14/15 year of age. Population was really important for a state to survive. The male population could get wiped out Fast after a war. Town needed to be replenished. IF They were lucky they had a town philosopher, with a stone circle. HE was the university. Many trades were of family traditions and connections. But large cities like Rome would have Academies. LIbraries in Alexanderia, Rome and Conistantinople. end of rant.

At 7/30/2012 11:04:05 AM, MattDescopa wrote:
I would like an answer from learned christians as this is an issue that arised when thinking about the ressurection. You see Jesus rose from the dead into heaven, but where is heaven? It isn't in the sky so where did Jesus go, space??

If heaven is in another dimension, why did he have to rise so high? He should have just switched dimensions. I'm confused.

There are three heavens:

The first Heaven, which is the Earths atmosphere.

The second Heaven, which is the Universe.

The third heaven, which is where God, the Son, the angels and the saved go.

So, as the second heaven is outside and surrounding the first, we may suppose that the third has a similar relation to the second.

Acts 7:49
"‘Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. What kind of house will you build for me? says the Lord. Or where will my resting place be?

Hebrews 1:13
To which of the angels did God ever say, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet" ?

==> It is simply a description of how heaven looks like, how this is contradictory to the idea of spirits or souls in heaven doesn't follow.:

So "spirits" which contain no mass, live in a place that has mass?

==> You says that souls in heaven don't have needs for gold, metals etc. Once again no one claimed that they need gold in heaven. It is simply how the place looks.:

So then why create it with precious metals and gold if it wasn't necessary? You really can't read between the lines? This is obviously an invention of the human mind, not the invention of God. Precious metals are arbitrarily important man. What relevance would they have to God?

At 7/31/2012 12:07:14 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:

At 7/30/2012 11:04:05 AM, MattDescopa wrote:
I would like an answer from learned christians as this is an issue that arised when thinking about the ressurection. You see Jesus rose from the dead into heaven, but where is heaven? It isn't in the sky so where did Jesus go, space??

If heaven is in another dimension, why did he have to rise so high? He should have just switched dimensions. I'm confused.

There are three heavens:

The first Heaven, which is the Earths atmosphere.

The second Heaven, which is the Universe.

The third heaven, which is where God, the Son, the angels and the saved go.

So, as the second heaven is outside and surrounding the first, we may suppose that the third has a similar relation to the second.

Acts 7:49
"‘Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. What kind of house will you build for me? says the Lord. Or where will my resting place be?

Hebrews 1:13
To which of the angels did God ever say, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet" ?

The Fool: The main problem here is why bother using the same terms for difference things. It doesn't make sense that God would speak in encrypted language. Left to be figured out from such lowly humans are we are accused of being. It seems that you woudl have to have the authority of God him self to to re-interpret anything from the original meaning.

At 7/30/2012 11:47:53 AM, Ren wrote:

At 7/30/2012 11:33:21 AM, MattDescopa wrote:

At 7/30/2012 11:28:07 AM, Ren wrote:

Jesus went to Hell first.

Heaven isn't really described in the Bible, aside from hyperbolic appeals to what's typically considered attractive or suggestive of wealth, such as gold, diamonds, pearls, and large homes.

What I'm saying is where did Jesus rise to after the ressurection?? Heaven isn't in the sky.

Well, none of our presidents ascended into the sky when they rose to presidency, either. :\

The Fool: That not the same use of the words. Prsidency is not a location. ANd never was. The heaven in Greek had always refered to the sky. THe Second majore problem is with what justifaction can anybody reinterprete God Original 'word'. He is God. Why not just tell it is it is. why play trick or games. If he was reveal to people in there dreams. Why not just reveal him self in all our dreams. not of this makes sense with out presupposing the BIble. Which is and always was Circular. This suggest that he didn't mean what he said and yet mean what he didn't say. Its not just in a few case BUT ALL CASES> Remember Spirit Just mean BREATH AIR> Actual AIR They thought AIR was incorpareal at the time. But now we know better. Inspiration comes from God breathing his PHSYCAL air into you. IT was AIR> A Ghost was stronge noisy wind. So Which at the tiem they THOUGHT was mystical at the time. We know better. He is BREATH AIR, and NOisy strong AIR and his own father and son, at the same time. There is nothing rational going on at all here. Its called peopel who were ignorant about how the word works. Writing a mythology like all the just so happen mythology from Islam. And before. IT was a very popular goverment tactic to police the people. To fear them into doing what they thought was good at the time.

At 7/31/2012 2:09:50 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:

At 7/31/2012 12:07:14 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:

At 7/30/2012 11:04:05 AM, MattDescopa wrote:
I would like an answer from learned christians as this is an issue that arised when thinking about the ressurection. You see Jesus rose from the dead into heaven, but where is heaven? It isn't in the sky so where did Jesus go, space??

If heaven is in another dimension, why did he have to rise so high? He should have just switched dimensions. I'm confused.

There are three heavens:

The first Heaven, which is the Earths atmosphere.

The second Heaven, which is the Universe.

The third heaven, which is where God, the Son, the angels and the saved go.

So, as the second heaven is outside and surrounding the first, we may suppose that the third has a similar relation to the second.

Acts 7:49
"‘Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. What kind of house will you build for me? says the Lord. Or where will my resting place be?

Hebrews 1:13
To which of the angels did God ever say, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet" ?

The Fool: The main problem here is why bother using the same terms for difference things. It doesn't make sense that God would speak in encrypted language. Left to be figured out from such lowly humans are we are accused of being. It seems that you woudl have to have the authority of God him self to to re-interpret anything from the original meaning.

It makes sense to me; before we had telescopes etc we could understand that outside the first heaven (enclosed space/reality) there is a second heaven, like, but different from, the first..

Now, we can imagine another heaven, like, but different from, the first two..

So "spirits" which contain no mass, live in a place that has mass?

That is assumption.

So then why create it with precious metals and gold if it wasn't necessary? You really can't read between the lines? This is obviously an invention of the human mind, not the invention of God. Precious metals are arbitrarily important man. What relevance would they have to God?

Where do you think the ability to form and have precious stones came from? God! God is formed of presious stones- 12 to exzact- 12 tribes of Israel and they also had one presious stone that represented them. As like Lucifer or satan was made up 10 stones- 2 shy from God. This is in the Bible.

At 7/30/2012 11:04:05 AM, MattDescopa wrote:
I would like an answer from learned christians as this is an issue that arised when thinking about the ressurection. You see Jesus rose from the dead into heaven, but where is heaven? It isn't in the sky so where did Jesus go, space??

If heaven is in another dimension, why did he have to rise so high? He should have just switched dimensions. I'm confused.

There could be many interpretations here but I will give the two that I have heard. The first is kinda believable, The Hollow earth, Were the lost go to await judgement and also the saved go to await judgement. This is the frozen sea in Rev. The polar caps are the frozen sea. Many people believe that we have a hollow earth. Many civilizations say they came from within the earth- Cain's lineage.
The second is what I tend to believe more. Jesus went to hell and gained the keys to hades and on the third day reentered his body. He asend into heaven but to mortals that what it would look like. I imagine that heaven is beyond(outside) our earth and space. Though God can be inside creation, He is ultimately outside of it, therefore His kingdom would be also.

At 8/1/2012 1:20:12 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:

So "spirits" which contain no mass, live in a place that has mass?

That is assumption.

The Fool: Spirits is a 'word' which means Breath AIR. They thought air was had not mass because AIR was invisible. This is where the incorpereal comes from. And it is this very same meaning in the Original Christian Bible. That is the Greek Orthadox(as in True) Christiain BIBLE. From which all Christain BIBLEs get the thier mythology from.

So then why create it with precious metals and gold if it wasn't necessary? You really can't read between the lines? This is obviously an invention of the human mind, not the invention of God. Precious metals are arbitrarily important man. What relevance would they have to God?

Where do you think the ability to form and have precious stones came from?

The Fool: yeah. that guy most be stupid for not thinking of that.

God! God is formed of presious stones- 12 to exzact- 12 tribes of Israel and they also had one presious stone that represented them.

The Fool: lets be honest there is an indefinite definitions of God. But if there is a true God. He can't change eveytime someone assigns different meaning to the physical symbol aka the 'word' God. Also we really have to imagine God as being some kind of Prankster. To Speaking of percievable thinks and yet meaning non of these things when every its convient to a theologin.

As like Lucifer or satan was made up 10 stones- 2 shy from God. This is in the Bible.

At 8/1/2012 1:20:12 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:

So "spirits" which contain no mass, live in a place that has mass?

That is assumption.:

Uh, yeah, an assumption based on the bible's OWN descriptions!

Where do you think the ability to form and have precious stones came from? God! God is formed of presious stones- 12 to exzact- 12 tribes of Israel and they also had one presious stone that represented them. As like Lucifer or satan was made up 10 stones- 2 shy from God. This is in the Bible.:

I find that really amusing considering Jesus went out of his way to dissuade people from hoarding mammon (money) and explicitly told them to give away all their possessions.

At 7/30/2012 1:46:46 PM, acvavra wrote:
The universe is described as a triangle, a pyramid if you will, by 4 dimensions(Ephesians 3:18), breadth, length, depth, and height. Its divided into 3 main parts(Heaven above) Water below(Crystal Sea) Empty Space for the Solar System, and Water below our Solar system(Gen 1:7-8). Psalm 148:4 says there is water above us(above space) which is the Crystal Sea. That separates Heaven from Outer Space.

No response on this?

At 8/1/2012 10:08:18 AM, acvavra wrote:

At 7/30/2012 1:46:46 PM, acvavra wrote:
The universe is described as a triangle, a pyramid if you will, by 4 dimensions(Ephesians 3:18), breadth, length, depth, and height. Its divided into 3 main parts(Heaven above) Water below(Crystal Sea) Empty Space for the Solar System, and Water below our Solar system(Gen 1:7-8). Psalm 148:4 says there is water above us(above space) which is the Crystal Sea. That separates Heaven from Outer Space.

No response on this?

That all sounds about right.