PSATs

At 10/14/2009 8:50:11 PM, Nags wrote:

At 10/14/2009 8:37:17 PM, mongeese wrote:

At 10/14/2009 3:19:27 PM, untitled_entity wrote:
I found it to be rather easy. But that locker question in the math section as well as the numbers with the number 7 in it were ridiculous.

5*31*2
9*9*9-1
Done.

u_e - The locker one was easy... I forget what the number 7 question was though, remind me?

mongeese - ??? What question was that

For me, the locker one was time consuming because I didn't do the multiplication. Mongeese, I thought it was just 9^3.

Fill in the bubbles, fill in a grid and an essay is all you need for college entry?

We have to answer question by writing out answers. We have to write out essays, not just fill in the blanks, and most of the time there's no A, B, C D choice. That's childs play.

Would a History exam be "Who first explored America?" and then you would have an option of 5 people?

At 10/15/2009 3:28:42 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Fill in the bubbles, fill in a grid and an essay is all you need for college entry?

That's one of the admission factors. Obviously, GPA among many other things determine colllege entry. You also have to write essays to the specific college you are applying to.

We have to answer question by writing out answers. We have to write out essays, not just fill in the blanks, and most of the time there's no A, B, C D choice. That's childs play.

. . .

Would a History exam be "Who first explored America?" and then you would have an option of 5 people?

No. It's critical thinking and reading analysis, and also math, and an essay.

The SATs have nothing to do with the curriculum you learned in high school.

[ SAMPLE ]
Frederick Douglass' skills as ------- were never more evident than when he spoke -------, delivering unrehearsed speeches of unsurpassed elouence and clarity.
(A) an explicator . . belligerently
(B) an orator . . cryptically
(C) an obfuscator . . improvisationally
(D) a diplomat . . censoriously
(E) a rhetorician . . extemporaneously

At 10/15/2009 3:42:59 AM, Nags wrote:

At 10/15/2009 3:28:42 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Fill in the bubbles, fill in a grid and an essay is all you need for college entry?

That's one of the admission factors. Obviously, GPA among many other things determine colllege entry. You also have to write essays to the specific college you are applying to.

We have to answer question by writing out answers. We have to write out essays, not just fill in the blanks, and most of the time there's no A, B, C D choice. That's childs play.

. . .

Would a History exam be "Who first explored America?" and then you would have an option of 5 people?

No. It's critical thinking and reading analysis, and also math, and an essay.

The SATs have nothing to do with the curriculum you learned in high school.

[ SAMPLE ]
Frederick Douglass' skills as ------- were never more evident than when he spoke -------, delivering unrehearsed speeches of unsurpassed elouence and clarity.
(A) an explicator . . belligerently
(B) an orator . . cryptically
(C) an obfuscator . . improvisationally
(D) a diplomat . . censoriously
(E) a rhetorician . . extemporaneously

OH! We had those when we were >12. Anyway, what exams do you do for your curriculum?

@Panda

The standardized examinations in America are a joke compared to what they are in foreign countries, I'm just going to come out and say it.

My year was the first year to take the "New SAT", which has a writing component, a modified English component, and a harder math component. You can get over 700 on every section just by doing a few workbooks by Kaplan or Princeton Review.

I think that the fairer comparison would be the AP examinations we have as students. From ages to 14-18, we have optional "AP" courses, which are academically equivalent to the International Baccalaureate programs offered in foreign countries like the UK. Those are probably the hardest things we have in America for high school.

Public education in America is severely lacking. End of story.

At 10/15/2009 8:43:52 AM, Kleptin wrote:
@Panda

The standardized examinations in America are a joke compared to what they are in foreign countries, I'm just going to come out and say it.

My year was the first year to take the "New SAT", which has a writing component, a modified English component, and a harder math component. You can get over 700 on every section just by doing a few workbooks by Kaplan or Princeton Review.

I think that the fairer comparison would be the AP examinations we have as students. From ages to 14-18, we have optional "AP" courses, which are academically equivalent to the International Baccalaureate programs offered in foreign countries like the UK. Those are probably the hardest things we have in America for high school.

Public education in America is severely lacking. End of story.

Private education is too.

At 10/15/2009 8:43:52 AM, Kleptin wrote:
@Panda

The standardized examinations in America are a joke compared to what they are in foreign countries, I'm just going to come out and say it.

My year was the first year to take the "New SAT", which has a writing component, a modified English component, and a harder math component. You can get over 700 on every section just by doing a few workbooks by Kaplan or Princeton Review.

I think that the fairer comparison would be the AP examinations we have as students. From ages to 14-18, we have optional "AP" courses, which are academically equivalent to the International Baccalaureate programs offered in foreign countries like the UK. Those are probably the hardest things we have in America for high school.

Public education in America is severely lacking. End of story.

Wut? lol. So anyone can do a history course in college or do they have to have passed the History curriculum in HS?

At 10/15/2009 8:43:52 AM, Kleptin wrote:
@Panda

The standardized examinations in America are a joke compared to what they are in foreign countries, I'm just going to come out and say it.

My year was the first year to take the "New SAT", which has a writing component, a modified English component, and a harder math component. You can get over 700 on every section just by doing a few workbooks by Kaplan or Princeton Review.

I think that the fairer comparison would be the AP examinations we have as students. From ages to 14-18, we have optional "AP" courses, which are academically equivalent to the International Baccalaureate programs offered in foreign countries like the UK. Those are probably the hardest things we have in America for high school.

Public education in America is severely lacking. End of story.

Interesting. AP programs that we have over in Canada are specifically aimed for credit in Universities. i.e. if you finish AP Chemistry with a mark of 4 or higher, you get credit for it in university and thus never have to take first year Chemistry for your university.

At 10/15/2009 12:12:12 PM, tkubok wrote:
Interesting. AP programs that we have over in Canada are specifically aimed for credit in Universities. i.e. if you finish AP Chemistry with a mark of 4 or higher, you get credit for it in university and thus never have to take first year Chemistry for your university.

It has that effect here too, but many of the brighter students are using AP scores of 4 or 5 as indicators that they stand above the norm. In the highschool that I went to, I didn't know anyone that scored below 650 on any of the sections for the SAT. The only thing that could differentiate between students were the number of AP courses you take. Our school offers 31 AP classes and a typical student takes an average of 3 AP classes.

At 10/15/2009 1:11:59 PM, Kleptin wrote:
It has that effect here too, but many of the brighter students are using AP scores of 4 or 5 as indicators that they stand above the norm. In the highschool that I went to, I didn't know anyone that scored below 650 on any of the sections for the SAT. The only thing that could differentiate between students were the number of AP courses you take. Our school offers 31 AP classes and a typical student takes an average of 3 AP classes.

Did you go to a public or private school? The students in said high school have impressive statistics, much better than the average high school anyway.

At 10/15/2009 8:43:52 AM, Kleptin wrote:
@Panda

The standardized examinations in America are a joke compared to what they are in foreign countries, I'm just going to come out and say it.

My year was the first year to take the "New SAT", which has a writing component, a modified English component, and a harder math component. You can get over 700 on every section just by doing a few workbooks by Kaplan or Princeton Review.

Heck, you can do it without them. Except maybe the writing section, you also need readable handwriting, which I lack :P.

At 10/15/2009 1:13:21 PM, Nags wrote:

At 10/15/2009 1:11:59 PM, Kleptin wrote:
It has that effect here too, but many of the brighter students are using AP scores of 4 or 5 as indicators that they stand above the norm. In the highschool that I went to, I didn't know anyone that scored below 650 on any of the sections for the SAT. The only thing that could differentiate between students were the number of AP courses you take. Our school offers 31 AP classes and a typical student takes an average of 3 AP classes.

Did you go to a public or private school? The students in said high school have impressive statistics, much better than the average high school anyway.

I went to a public school.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

It isn't that much better than an average high school. Frankly, I don't see how a public school education could be more dumbed down. If you aren't living in a ghetto, chances are that you're receiving an education that's just as good as you would from any other public school.

Not necessarily. You can also be bussed to a ghetto as an exception to that rule.

I was for one year. I learned absolutely nothing except further confirmation that forced busing is bad :P.

Well, technically not busing. Despite being assigned to that school rather than the one three blocks away, they wouldn't bus me because I was outside the range of the bus. I had to be driven.

At 10/15/2009 9:27:13 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Well, technically not busing. Despite being assigned to that school rather than the one three blocks away, they wouldn't bus me because I was outside the range of the bus. I had to be driven.

Lol. Sucks.

On another note, damn you, Kleptin, for getting to take the new SATs! The old ones sucked BALLS. I was in the last class that took those >.<

Irish system:

No busing, most schools are run by the Edmund Rice Trustee blah blah blah (I.e. Catholic Church). It sucks but they have a stronghold on education. Public schools do exist but there are none near where I live. There is a school near me, but it's less than reputable so I go to this one: http://en.wikipedia.org...

There are other ones, but most a run by Edmund Rice Trustee whatever, and then slight subsidised by the government (Which I oppose, they're funding the teaching of Catholicism), but still my school goes out with a tin can begging for money, and the spends it on ridiculous things .

Anyway, they're tow exams, Junior Certificate and Leaving Certificate.

The Junior Cert. is what I'm doing at the moment, the exam is in June, and we have a test run in February. Each student has to do 5 subjects: English [Shakespeare + Media studies + Functional Writing], Irish [>.<], Maths, Civics Social Political Education (common sense) and a Continental language (French, Italian, German, Spanish, etc).

Most students do optional subjects on top of that. I do History, Religion, Geography, Science These are mandatory in mah school) and then Woodwork and Business Studies as my true options. Each exam is marked out of 100, and basically involved short question or Long Question\ Essays. Strangely you're only given A, B, C, D, or NG (No Grade), and not told e specific amount (E.g. B is anywhere from 70 to 84)

Then, in Leaving Certificate, you have to do Irish, English and Maths, and need to do (on paper) three extra subjects, as the system is marked out of 600 points. In my school you get 4 options, and I want to do French, Economics, History and Geography, but willing to fall back on Biology or Business studies (I heard there's a Sociology course being introduced in 2010\ 2011, so :D). Depending on what you get out of 600, that is a gauge for college.

Sample Examinations for Junior Cert.:

English:
Paper I: http://www.examinations.ie...
Paper II:http://www.examinations.ie...

Maths:
Paper I: http://www.examinations.ie...
Paper II:http://www.examinations.ie...

At 10/15/2009 7:46:12 PM, Kleptin wrote:

At 10/15/2009 1:13:21 PM, Nags wrote:

At 10/15/2009 1:11:59 PM, Kleptin wrote:
It has that effect here too, but many of the brighter students are using AP scores of 4 or 5 as indicators that they stand above the norm. In the highschool that I went to, I didn't know anyone that scored below 650 on any of the sections for the SAT. The only thing that could differentiate between students were the number of AP courses you take. Our school offers 31 AP classes and a typical student takes an average of 3 AP classes.

Did you go to a public or private school? The students in said high school have impressive statistics, much better than the average high school anyway.

I went to a public school.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

It isn't that much better than an average high school. Frankly, I don't see how a public school education could be more dumbed down. If you aren't living in a ghetto, chances are that you're receiving an education that's just as good as you would from any other public school.

'Stuy' is hardly an average high school.

Stuyvesant High School commonly referred to as Stuy, is a New York City public high school that specializes in mathematics and science. It is one of the most competitive public high schools in the United States, sending more students to some of the nation's most prestigious universities than most other public or private schools. ... Stuyvesant is noted for its strong academic programs, having produced many notable alumni including four Nobel laureates. U.S. News & World Report ranked it twenty-third in their 2008 list of America's best "Gold-Medal" high schools.

I go to the 5th Best High School (Private) in Massachusetts. The public high school is atrocious.

@ Panda. Thank. You. So. Much. I'm totally pulling those standardized tests for the current LD topic and saying that free response tests that measure critical thinking are possible.

Lol, those look like they suck to take. I long free response tests. Answering orally would be way easier than writing hat much.

The SATs and ACTs are a joke. I got some cheap prep books and ran 1/2 a practice test on each, 34 (out of 36) on ACT + 760s (out of 800s) on SAT. They're pointless, and score inflation due to test prep invalidates them. Still, they give some form of measurement.

My high school is pretty average, but we've got nice extracurriculars + course options. 2 AP classes is pretty standard for even B students at my school, but you only really see people taking 3 in junior year. The top 3 percentile (maybe 10 kids?) would hit 5 in junior year.

Side note: I opted out of answering religion. No way am I letting colleges discriminate =). I found it funny that Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Atheist/Agnostic/Ignostic/General Non-theist each had one category, and Christianity had like 28. Also, there was no 'general theist' choice, which I feel would help their purpose.

At 10/14/2009 1:45:53 PM, B-Rock wrote:
On the PSATs, I had to put down a religion that I was. To do this, I had to fill in the religion code that was my religion. There were approximately 30 religions, none of them being any sort of non theist religion so I had to put "Other" what would you do?

I am atheist. I put 99 (no religious affiliation).

At 10/14/2009 1:52:13 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Why would you have to fill out your religion? So the fundamentalist markers have a reason to harshly grade you?

I think it's so only religious schools of the right type will try to offer you scholarships.

At 10/16/2009 12:06:00 PM, Nags wrote:
'Stuy' is hardly an average high school.

Stuyvesant High School commonly referred to as Stuy, is a New York City public high school that specializes in mathematics and science. It is one of the most competitive public high schools in the United States, sending more students to some of the nation's most prestigious universities than most other public or private schools. ... Stuyvesant is noted for its strong academic programs, having produced many notable alumni including four Nobel laureates. U.S. News & World Report ranked it twenty-third in their 2008 list of America's best "Gold-Medal" high schools.

It's not that good, seriously. And it churns out socially awkward people like nobody's business.

I forgot what I put. Other, I think.

I never know which branch of Christianity I'm in. I don't even identify myself with any particular branch. I wish there was a "Christianity - General" category.

At 10/20/2009 6:38:13 PM, wjmelements wrote:
I forgot what I put. Other, I think.

Why not Christianity?

At 10/20/2009 6:42:02 PM, mongeese wrote:
I never know which branch of Christianity I'm in. I don't even identify myself with any particular branch. I wish there was a "Christianity - General" category.

I thought there was a 'Christianity' category. But how don't you know what branch of Christianity who are? Don't you go to Church?

Churches don't exactly foster noticing anything real, even the sign that tells you the denomination, Nags. It's a metaphysical accident if you manage it.

At 10/20/2009 9:13:38 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Churches don't exactly foster noticing anything real, even the sign that tells you the denomination, Nags. It's a metaphysical accident if you manage it.

Still... they should no what cult, erm, branch they belong to.

At 10/20/2009 9:17:43 PM, Nags wrote:

At 10/20/2009 9:13:38 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Churches don't exactly foster noticing anything real, even the sign that tells you the denomination, Nags. It's a metaphysical accident if you manage it.

Still... they should no what cult, erm, branch they belong to.

Not all of us claim any particular branch, Nags. The church I attend doesn't even have a name, much less a "denomination."

At 10/17/2009 11:34:17 PM, ToastOfDestiny wrote:
@ Panda. Thank. You. So. Much. I'm totally pulling those standardized tests for the current LD topic and saying that free response tests that measure critical thinking are possible.

Lol, those look like they suck to take. I hate long free response tests. Answering orally would be way easier than writing that much.

Wow, this was full of phail.

It's not that good, seriously. And it churns out socially awkward people like nobody's business.

If you want to get into M.I.T. you have to learn how to be socially awkward *somewhere*

The SAT was originally a straight IQ test. (verbal score + math score)/10 = IQ They didn't quite get the test calibrated right, so there were correction curves (now on the Internet). The idea was to measure the mental ability to do college work, independent of achievement. High school grades provided information on what you achieved. This would help admission boards determine if you overachieved or underachieved. The goal was to admit more students who had underachieved because they were going to bad high schools.

In the early 90s the tests were changed to make them more of an achievement test.

I recommend taking a lot of practice tests, and taking the actual test at least a couple of times. The test designers have a limited bag of tricks, and it's good to learn those. Of course when I took it, it was on parchment and we used quill pens, so maybe things have changed.