Pantheism

I know a few prominent members of DDO are now considering themselves "pantheists."

I know the general definition of pantheism - that God is literally all-encompassing, and that the universe, reality, laws of nature, etc., are all really what "God" is, instead of God's creations - but as someone who takes a relatively simple view of God and doesn't try to get caught up in all the complexities of reality (I fail on regular occasions), what can you tell me about the idea of a pantheist God, and how it relates to our reality? What proof of it do you have? Or is this the same deal with a Judeo-Christian God, and is based more on "faith" than anything else?

To opponents of pantheism, what are the arguments against?

Thanks to anyone that answers.

The arguments against Pantheism, is that Pantheism is a copout answer to the question of whether or not a God exists.

If God is simply the universe, then great. Youve just found another word for "The universe". Which is fine, but i find no reason to claim it, since we already have a working word for the universe, which just happens to be "The universe".

Secondly, we find no evidence to believe that any of it is conscious. A non-conscious God would not be a God at all.

At 10/27/2009 12:57:29 PM, tkubok wrote:
The arguments against Pantheism, is that Pantheism is a copout answer to the question of whether or not a God exists.

If God is simply the universe, then great. Youve just found another word for "The universe". Which is fine, but i find no reason to claim it, since we already have a working word for the universe, which just happens to be "The universe".

Secondly, we find no evidence to believe that any of it is conscious. A non-conscious God would not be a God at all.

First and foremost, I AM NOT A PANTHEIST.

Anyway, a few problems with this guy's argument.

First, atheists obviously acknowledge "the universe" but pantheists acknowledge the universe as God or a God, so no, they're not the same or interchangeable terms... mostly because an atheist would tell you that there's no rhyme or reason for the universe, and that it just 'is.' A pantheist would tell you different.

On that note, if you acknowledge the universe, but can't identify a creator or a reason why it exists, then you've got the same problem that theists do. The same way a theist can't explain how God came to be or why God is, atheists can't tell you how the universe came to be or why it is. To say "it just has to logically exist" is the same argument that can be applied to God (albeit not the Abrahamic God, which is just logically impossible).

Also, why does God have to be conscience? I'm not arguing against it, I'd just like your particular explanation.

Edit: Also, why does God have to be conscious? I'm not arguing against it, I'd just like your particular explanation.

At 10/27/2009 12:53:04 PM, Volkov wrote:
I know a few prominent members of DDO are now considering themselves "pantheists."

I know the general definition of pantheism - that God is literally all-encompassing, and that the universe, reality, laws of nature, etc., are all really what "God" is, instead of God's creations - but as someone who takes a relatively simple view of God and doesn't try to get caught up in all the complexities of reality (I fail on regular occasions), what can you tell me about the idea of a pantheist God, and how it relates to our reality? What proof of it do you have? Or is this the same deal with a Judeo-Christian God, and is based more on "faith" than anything else?

To opponents of pantheism, what are the arguments against?

Thanks to anyone that answers.

Oh god... (no pun intended)... if you're talking about me, I'm not a pantheist.

Lwerd, I thought you had mentioned before that you are a pantheist? What, then?

On that note, if you acknowledge the universe, but can't identify a creator or a reason why it exists, then you've got the same problem that theists do. The same way a theist can't explain how God came to be or why God is, atheists can't tell you how the universe came to be or why it is.

This is not a problem. One doesn't need to know why something is there, if one knows that it is. The only reason it's a problem for some theists that they can't explain where God came from is that they believe it to be a problem that atheists cannot explain an origin of a universe and are therefore inconsistent.

A universe coming from anywhere, btw, is also inconsistent.

As for the first post:
Ascribing Godhood to the universe, first, inappropriately defines it as a single entity when both you and I are in the universe and are separate entities, and there are other things that are separate yet.. Second, it demands that the question be asked-- what the hell do you mean by god?

I thought the Danielle-Mimoza house was Pantheism HQ

There are no arguments against pantheism, so don't try. :)

I consider myself to be a pantheist, and I don't use it as just another way to define "Universe" as tkubok suggested. My view is that the Universe (Multiverse actually) has always existed and therefore no creation is necessary. This Universe is in itself, conscious, so I'm not making the same assertion as atheists. Everything is consciousness, just at different levels of it.

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At 10/27/2009 2:56:35 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
I thought the Danielle-Mimoza house was Pantheism HQ

No. This is just more of your lies and propaganda, as I've always said.