Proof of an Intelligent Creator and

According to science our universe (space-time) has a beginning (http://arxiv.org...).This paper is written by the cosmologist Alexander Vilenkin of the Tufts university and Arvind Bonde.)

It is a fundamental law of physics (causality) that every physical occurrence in the universe has a cause. Since space-time has a beginning there was a first physical occurrence. Causality requires that the first physical occurrence had a cause. Causality and the fact that space-time has a beginning implies that this Prime Cause is non-dimensional and independent of space-time, i.e. a Creator.

To conclude the above paragraphs:
Fact: No thing nor event in the known universe or laws of physics lacks a cause.
Assume: There is no Prime Cause (Creator).
Ergo: There is no universe.
Fact: There is a universe.
Therefore: the statement that was assumed is proven to be a false statement by reduction ad absurdum (proof by disproof).
(Since "There is no Creator" is proven false, the opposite is true: There is a Creator.)

Being logically consistent (orderly), our (to say perfectly-orderly would be a tautology) orderly universe must mirror its Prime Cause / Singularity-Creator—Who must be Orderly; i.e. Perfect. An orderly—"not capricious," as Einstein put it—Creator (also implying Just), therefore, necessarily had an Intelligent Purpose in creating this universe and us within it and, being Just and Orderly, necessarily placed an explanation, a "Life's Instruction Manual," within the reach of His subjects—humankind.

It defies the orderliness (logic / mathematics) of both the universe and Perfection of its Creator to assert that humanity was (contrary to His Torah, see below) without any means of rapproachment until millennia after the first couple in recorded history as well as millennia after Abraham, Moses and the prophets. Therefore, the Creator's "Life's Instruction Manual" has been available to man at least since the beginning of recorded history. The only enduring document of this kind is the Torah —which, interestingly, translates to "Instruction" (not "law" as popularly alleged). (Some of the text is a quote from www.netzarim.co.il)

The fact that the Creator is perfect implies that He isn't self-contradictory. Therefore any religion, and all religions contradicts each other (otherwise they would be identical), that contradicts Torah is the antithesis to the Creator.

The most common counter arguments are answered here: http://bloganders.blogspot.com...)

Anders Branderud

God of the Gaps. You are using the concept of God to fill in the gap we have in our understanding of the origin of the Universe.

Furthermore, your argument fails because the Creator must itself have been created by something before (as per your citation of the laws of physics). Therefore, your Deity runs into the same problem.

Let me also note that your second argument does not necessarily follow the first. If, for the sake of argument, we assume that there indeed MUST have been a creator, it is not necessarily true that that creator is the one that you claim (presumably, Yahweh).

This is probably one of the most complicated subjects to discuss in the field of creationism/evolution. Whatever you believe in, it is hard to explain when it all began. I believe that it didn't begin anywhere, and I can explain it by definition, but logically, it would meet evolution, because evolution supports the theory that there must've been a beginning, but we don't know when it all began, why, how, out of what etcetera.

You can call this a point where creationism and evolution meet logically. I think that if we find out that the universe is finite, which I personally believe it is, then we may also find out whether or not this universe had a beginning.

1) If you accept the law of causality, you must accept God needs a cause, ad infinitum - infinite regress.

2) Your argument is a non-sequitor as your conclusion does not follow. Why conclude a God of a religion or any God for that matter - all your argument concludes is that there is some form an intelligent designer.

3) God has no reason to create anything.

Alternatives to an intelligent designer as a first cause

- Matter eternal, no cause needed.

- Multiverse theory.

- Visual particles and quantum physics/mechanics.

At 10/29/2009 3:08:47 PM, JBlake wrote:
Furthermore, your argument fails because the Creator must itself have been created by something before (as per your citation of the laws of physics). Therefore, your Deity runs into the same problem.

Not true, if those laws of physics were created along with the rest of the universe. Causality is an observable truth about the physical universe; we have no reason to assume that any of the laws that govern our universe have any bearing whatsoever on things spiritual.

I get annoyed at sloppy arguments like this one, that assume baselessly that:
a) God is physically bound by the universe, whether He created it or not;
b) God has a specific time/space location;
or c) spiritual things can be observed, measured, seen, recorded, or explained by physical science.

By definition, Spiritual =/= Physical.

Ahh, the causality proof. There is one major problem here - causality requires time to exist (because without time, cause/effect is meaningless). However, before the existence of the universe, time didn't exist (neither did space). Causality was invalid until the universe came into existence, and thus a 'first cause' is not needed.

According to science our universe (space-time) has a beginning (http://arxiv.org......).

According to logic, this is a contradiction.

Further, your source doesn't establish your claim. Rebutting steady state theory does not mean demonstrating finite time.

At 10/29/2009 3:44:31 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:

According to science our universe (space-time) has a beginning (http://arxiv.org......).

According to logic, this is a contradiction.

Only if your first premise is that nothing could exist before time.