Most Founding Fathers not Deists

Most of the Founding Fathers of the USA were NOT Deists

I am trying to correct what I believe to be a commonly held misconception. I had kind of wanted to debate this with someone and still might, but the topic seems to lend itself more to a forum topic than a debate(?)
-----------
Deism

a movement or system of thought advocating natural religion, emphasizing morality, and in the 18th century denying the interference of the Creator with the laws of the universe

http://www.merriam-webster.com...

Deist
Noun
1. A person who believes that God created the universe and then abandoned it.
http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org...

To state it in very simple terms a Deist is a person who believes that God exists but that He does NOT intervene in the affairs of men.

I think the main misunderstanding people have is that they believe that Deism means that a person simply believes in God. But there is that additional part of the actual definition that makes all difference, there is one key important distinction that needs to be made: Deists believe that God will not intervene to help mankind!
And I believe most of the Founding Fathers believed in a God who DOES intervene!
=================
I wanted to start with 15 Famous Founding Fathers:

Famous Signers of the Declaration of Independence:
1. Benjamin Franklin
2. John Hancock
3. John Adams
4. Samuel Adams
5. Thomas Jefferson
-------------
Famous Delegates to the Constitutional Convention (who were not previously identified as a FF)
Delegates who signed:
6. Alexander Hamilton
7. George Washington (president of the Convention)
8. James Madison

Delegates who refused to sign:
9. George Mason
------------------------

10. James Monroe, Continental Congressman and fifth President of the United States
11. John Jay, the first Chief Justice of the United States
12. John Marshall, the fourth Chief Justice of the United States.
13. Patrick Henry
14. Thomas Paine, who went on to champion the French Revolution in his Rights of Man.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

15. DANIEL BOONE, REVOLUTIONARY OFFICER; LEGISLATOR
http://toulonbaptist.com...
============================
Founding Fathers Beliefs:

1. Benjamin Franklin
He suggested to the Constitutional Congress to pray for God's help. A deist would not believe that God would intervene. Franklin did believe God intervenes. Therefore he was not a Deist (remember the definition of deism!).

"...how has it happened, Sir, that we have not hitherto once thought of humbly applying to the Father of lights to illuminate our understandings? In the beginning of the contest with G. Britain, when we were sensible of danger we had daily prayer in this room for the Divine Protection. -- Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered. All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances of a Superintending providence in our favor. To that kind providence we owe this happy opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of establishing our future national felicity. And have we now forgotten that powerful friend? or do we imagine that we no longer need His assistance.

I have lived, Sir, a long time and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- that God governs in the affairs of men."
http://www.americanrhetoric.com...

2. John Hancock
John Hancock was identified as a Congregationalist by The Congregationalist Library.
http://www.adherents.com...

Congregationalism
2. Congregationalism The system of government and religious beliefs of a Protestant denomination in which each member church is self-governing.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com...

3. John Adams
President John Adams was a devout Unitarian, which was a non-trinitarian Protestant Christian denomination during the Colonial era.

He was identified as a Congregationalist by The Congregationalist Library.
http://www.adherents.com...

4. Samuel Adams
While he was governor he called for a day of public fasting and prayer for God's grace and intervention in behalf of the nation:

"THE supreme Ruler of the Universe, having been pleased, in the course of His Providence, to establish the Independence of the United States of America, and to cause them to assume their rank, amount the nations of the Earth, and bless them with Liberty, Peace and Plenty; we ought to be led by Religious feelings of Gratitude; and to walk before Him, in all Humility, according to His most Holy Law. - But, as the depravity of our Hearts has, in so many instances drawn us aside from the path of duty, so that we have frequently offended our Divine and Merciful Benefactor; it is therefore highly incumbent on us, according to the ancient and laudable practice of our pious Ancestors, to open the year by a public and solemn Fast. - That with true repentance and contrition of Heart, we may unitedly implore the forgiveness of our Sins, through the merits of Jesus Christ, and humbly supplicate our Heavenly Father, to grant us the aids of His Grace, for the amendment of our Hearts and Lives, and vouchsafe His smiles upon our temporal concerns:..."
http://www.revolutionary-war-and-beyond.com...

5. Thomas Jefferson
Thomas Jefferson offered public prayers to Almighty God, in the name of Jesus Christ, praying for God to bless our nation. These actions show that Jefferson believed in a God who can and does intervene in the lives of men, thus making him not a deist.

"Almighty God, Who has given us this good land for our heritage, we humbly beseech Thee that we may always prove ourselves a people mindful of Thy favor and glad to do Thy will. Bless our land with honorable ministry, sound learning, and pure manners. Save us from violence, discord, and confusion, from pride and arrogance, and from every evil way. Defend our liberties, and fashion into one united people the multitude brought hither out of many kindreds and tongues.
Endow with Thy spirit of wisdom those to whom in Thy Name we entrust the authority of government, that there may be justice and peace at home, and that through obedience to Thy law, we may show forth Thy praise among the nations of the earth. In time of prosperity fill our hearts with thankfulness, and in the day of trouble, suffer not our trust in Thee to fail; all of which we ask through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen."
-Thomas Jefferson, The Life and Selected Writings of Thomas Jefferson
http://www.prayercampaign2008.com...

6. Alexander Hamilton
"I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man." -Alexander Hamilton

His last words were:
"I have a tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a sinner. I look to Him for mercy; pray for me."
http://www.faithofourfathers.net...

7. George Washington
It is clear that George Washington believed that God intervened in the affairs of men. His first official act was to ask God to bless the nation.

George Washington took the oath of office for the presidency on April 30, 1789. From his inaugural address:
"Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station, it would be peculiarly improper to omit, in this first official act, my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the universe, who presides in the councils of nations and whose providential aide can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the

Here is the rest of the George Washington quote (I ran out of characters...)

George Washington took the oath of office for the presidency on April 30, 1789. From his inaugurational address:

"Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station, it would be peculiarly improper to omit, in this first official act, my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the universe, who presides in the councils of nations and whose providential aide can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States a Government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes; and may enable every instrument employed in its administration to execute with success, the functions allotted to his charge...."

http://www.ushistory.org...

I never did get around to research the others belief's yet...(maybe somebody else could)(?)

8. James Madison -
9. George Mason -
10. James Monroe -
11. John Jay -
12. John Marshall -
13. Patrick Henry -
14. Thomas Paine -
15. Daniel Boone -

anyway, so there it is....why I don't think calling the Founding Fathers "Deists" is accurate.

I don't think it really matters whether they believe God intervenes or not. The point is that they disbelieve any God of the religions, and even detested religious gods. I still consider them Deists, despite some definitions. I think Deist is the best way to describe anyone who merely believes in God with no theology attached.

.

You know something I've wondered.... who cares?

So George Washington and others weren't deists. What does it matter? How do the religious beliefs of men that lives hundreds of years matter now? Because they wrote the Constitution and etc.?

Well, thats all well and fine, but when I'm looking for answers to questions of state legitimacy, I don't ask myself whether or not Franklin was a Christian, because it has basically zero bearing upon what is occurring today.

The only reason for ever being curious about it is because of interpretation, so there is a status quo to work from, and then break. Otherwise, who gives a flying f*ck other than those too stunted to seek answers in the present, rather than the past.

At 10/30/2009 12:06:16 AM, Volkov wrote:

Well, thats all well and fine, but when I'm looking for answers to questions of state legitimacy, I don't ask myself whether or not Franklin was a Christian, because it has basically zero bearing upon what is occurring today.

That's because you're a rational human being. You'd be surprised at how many people still define the U.S. as a "Christian nation" simply because our founding father were Christian (according to them!). Plus, determining that they were Christian is used as the basis for interpreting certain laws and the Constitution a bunch of the time. It's bogus.

At 10/29/2009 11:55:06 PM, heart_of_the_matter wrote:
Here is the rest of the George Washington quote (I ran out of characters...)

George Washington took the oath of office for the presidency on April 30, 1789. From his inaugurational address:

"Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station, it would be peculiarly improper to omit, in this first official act, my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the universe, who presides in the councils of nations and whose providential aide can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States a Government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes; and may enable every instrument employed in its administration to execute with success, the functions allotted to his charge...."

http://www.ushistory.org...

I never did get around to research the others belief's yet...(maybe somebody else could)(?)

8. James Madison -
9. George Mason -
10. James Monroe -
11. John Jay -
12. John Marshall -
13. Patrick Henry -
14. Thomas Paine -
15. Daniel Boone -

anyway, so there it is....why I don't think calling the Founding Fathers "Deists" is accurate.

Cool story bro.

Heres something you missed:
"My parents had early given me religious impressions, and brought me through my childhood piously in the Dissenting way. But I was scarce fifteen, when, after doubting by turns of several points, as I found them disputed in the different books I read, I began to doubt of Revelation itself. Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's Lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."-Benjamin Franklin

First off, when people start claiming "The Founding Fathers were Christians" they have already missed the point. The Founding Fathers intended for a separation of church and state, so their religion is irrelevant. They did not intend for their religion to be integrated with the government or its laws.

Well, here is a correction for two more:

Thomas Jefferson -

Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.
-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

Now Thomas Paine. Well he wrote "The Age of Reason", so I guess it is obvious what he thought about religion. He was by far the most outspoken of the founding fathers about religion (given that he published a book about it) and you could probably consider "The Age of Reason" almost a deist Bible.

But like I said, the Founding Father's religion doesn't really matter... what matters is what influence and connection they thought proper between religion and state. Perhaps the best reading on that can be found in Locke's "A Letter Concerning Toleration" which clearly defines where the line should be drawn between the two.

At 10/29/2009 11:52:15 PM, heart_of_the_matter wrote:
Famous Signers of the Declaration of Independence:
1. Benjamin Franklin
2. John Hancock
3. John Adams
4. Samuel Adams
5. Thomas Jefferson
-------------
Famous Delegates to the Constitutional Convention (who were not previously identified as a FF)
Delegates who signed:
6. Alexander Hamilton
7. George Washington (president of the Convention)
8. James Madison

Delegates who refused to sign:
9. George Mason
------------------------

10. James Monroe, Continental Congressman and fifth President of the United States
11. John Jay, the first Chief Justice of the United States
12. John Marshall, the fourth Chief Justice of the United States.
13. Patrick Henry
14. Thomas Paine, who went on to champion the French Revolution in his Rights of Man.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

15. DANIEL BOONE, REVOLUTIONARY OFFICER; LEGISLATOR
http://toulonbaptist.com...

I am not going to engage in quote mining, as you have done. The explanation for why one or two quotations by these men exist that sound Christian is because at the time this is what was expected from them. I don't have the time to once again research this topic and correct you. Instead:

1. Definitely Deist
2. Deist leaning
3. Deist
4. Christian
5. Definitely Deist (He r published the Christian bible and took out all miracles and claims of Jesus' divinity)
6. Christian
7. Deist leaning
8. Deist
9. Deist leaning
10. Not a founding father.
11. Christian
12. Not a founding father.
13. Christian
14. Definitely Deist
15. Not a founding father

@Volkov
The agenda for anyone claiming the religion of the founding fathers as Christians is clear - the pronouncement of the U.S. as a 'Christian Nation'. I agree you that their religion does not and should not matter. But if we allow theists to hijack history like this, we essentially concede the point.

Floid makes a great point. Regardless of their religious beliefs, the founders intended the government to be secular and divorced of religion. That much is quite clear.

At 10/30/2009 12:03:16 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I don't think it really matters whether they believe God intervenes or not. The point is that they disbelieve any God of the religions, and even detested religious gods. I still consider them Deists, despite some definitions. I think Deist is the best way to describe anyone who merely believes in God with no theology attached.

.

Some definitely believed in the "God of the religions" and others believed in a more "generic God" (who is over all) ---BUT who DOES intervene ---thus my point!

I don't think there is evidence that they "detested religious gods" (?)

I don't think it would be logical to call them "Deists" if they believe God intervenes in the affairs of men...Wouldn't the term "Theist" be more appropriate?.