Islam and Misunderstanding

I am a Muslim, and therefore it is an honour for me to defend my religion. I do not not want to "promote" Islam by creating this topic. Rather, I want to clear any misconceptions. Banker is one of those who need some explanation.

If any of you have any questions regarding Islam, e.g. terrorism and Islam, then feel free to ask me about it.

-Quran 5:33-
The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

Do you believe that the banker or people like George Bush should be executed, crucified, or that their hands and feet should be cut off? Why or why not? If no, then you disagree with the Quran - which makes you an infidel. And you know what happens to infidels. That shall be all.

At 11/16/2009 6:26:05 PM, Nags wrote:
-Quran 5:33-
The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

Do you believe that the banker or people like George Bush should be executed, crucified, or that their hands and feet should be cut off? Why or why not? If no, then you disagree with the Quran - which makes you an infidel. And you know what happens to infidels. That shall be all.

pretty tuff words for a unicorn

At 11/16/2009 6:26:05 PM, Nags wrote:
-Quran 5:33-
The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

Do you believe that the banker or people like George Bush should be executed, crucified, or that their hands and feet should be cut off? Why or why not? If no, then you disagree with the Quran - which makes you an infidel. And you know what happens to infidels. That shall be all.

Is "banker" waging war against Muslims? No he is not. As for George Bush, how do you justify what he did to 1.5 million innocent people?

That verse is not promoting violence towads innocent people at all. It is simply stating how people should be executed. Don't you think Mussolini was punished fairly by getting haged? Yes he was. The same way, when someone wages war against Muslims, do you think the Qur'an will tell us to run away? Thank God it doesn't.

Also, infidels are not to be killed. Who told you that? The Qur'an or CNN? The Qur'an on Fox News? The Qur'an or your neighbour? Nowhere in the Qur'an does it promote killing on any innocent human being, whether he be a Christian, Muslims, or something else.

At 11/16/2009 6:41:19 PM, Mirza wrote:

At 11/16/2009 6:26:05 PM, Nags wrote:
-Quran 5:33-
The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

Do you believe that the banker or people like George Bush should be executed, crucified, or that their hands and feet should be cut off? Why or why not? If no, then you disagree with the Quran - which makes you an infidel. And you know what happens to infidels. That shall be all.

Is "banker" waging war against Muslims? No he is not. As for George Bush, how do you justify what he did to 1.5 million innocent people?

That verse is not promoting violence towads innocent people at all. It is simply stating how people should be executed. Don't you think Mussolini was punished fairly by getting haged? Yes he was. The same way, when someone wages war against Muslims, do you think the Qur'an will tell us to run away? Thank God it doesn't.

Also, infidels are not to be killed. Who told you that? The Qur'an or CNN? The Qur'an on Fox News? The Qur'an or your neighbour? Nowhere in the Qur'an does it promote killing on any innocent human being, whether he be a Christian, Muslims, or something else.

What constitutes an "innocent human being" that shouldn't be killed and what constitutes not?

At 11/16/2009 7:24:47 PM, Harlan wrote:
What constitutes an "innocent human being" that shouldn't be killed and what constitutes not?

[Qur'an 60:8] "Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just."

There are many verse similar to this one. An innocent human being is one who does not wage war against Muslims. Also, the beloved prophet used to eat with Jews, take loans from them, and from other non-Muslims, so how do you think he thought of non-Muslims? Peacefully, of course. If the Qur'an instructed him to kill infidels, he would do it, and not help them out, and receive help from them.

[Qur'an 60:2-3] Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had bowed (to Allah's will) in Islam. (3)Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves: let (false) hope amuse them: soon will knowledge (undeceive them).

[Qur'an 2:256] "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things."

[Qur'an 10:99] "And if your Lord had pleased, surely all those who are in the earth would have believed, all of them; will you then force men till they become believers?"

[Qur'an 5:28] "If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear Allah, the cherisher of the worlds."

[Qur'an 5:32] "On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land."

We Muslims gain peace in our hearts, not hate, when we recite the Qur'an and listen to a recitation. Watch the video and see what feelings come us near; hateful or peaceful.

At 11/17/2009 3:10:07 AM, Mirza wrote:
There are many verse similar to this one. An innocent human being is one who does not wage war against Muslims. Also, the beloved prophet used to eat with Jews, take loans from them, and from other non-Muslims, so how do you think he thought of non-Muslims? Peacefully, of course. If the Qur'an instructed him to kill infidels, he would do it, and not help them out, and receive help from them.
[Qur'an 60:2-3] Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had bowed (to Allah's will) in Islam. (3)Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves: let (false) hope amuse them: soon will knowledge (undeceive them).

[Qur'an 2:256] "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things."

[Qur'an 10:99] "And if your Lord had pleased, surely all those who are in the earth would have believed, all of them; will you then force men till they become believers?"

[Qur'an 5:28] "If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear Allah, the cherisher of the worlds."

[Qur'an 5:32] "On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land."

We Muslims gain peace in our hearts, not hate, when we recite the Qur'an and listen to a recitation. Watch the video and see what feelings come us near; hateful or peaceful.

Sure, the quran does not force religion upon others. However, they are very clear about how Muslims should treat believers.

"The disbelievers are an open enemy to you. 4:101"

"So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them. 4:89"

This quote shows how anyone who has ill feelings against you should be killed.

"Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah. 9:29"

"Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you. 9:123

At 11/17/2009 8:17:21 AM, tkubok wrote:
Sure, the quran does not force religion upon others. However, they are very clear about how Muslims should treat believers.

Out of context, out of context, out of context ad infinitum.

My message to DDO-members:

(1)I will never fight anybody, except when somebody starts fighting me. (2)So if any of you people use violence against me- (3)I will fight you wherever you are; (4)All until you promise not to hurt me anymore.

See, there is nothing wrong with what I said. However, if you want to imitate a fool, you pick verse 3 out of context, and use it against me.

"Mirza is violent! Look what he wrote in his message to DDO-members: '(3)I will fight you wherever you are'"

"The disbelievers are an open enemy to you. 4:101"

[Qur'an 4:101] "When ye travel through the earth, there is no blame on you if ye shorten your prayers, for fear the Unbelievers May attack you: For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies."

This verse speaks about travelers who are allowed to shorten their prayer, if they fear that the enemy should attack them. How about the disbelievers? When are they enemies to us? Let us see what the next verses say.

[Qur'an 4:102] "When thou (O Messenger) art with them, and standest to lead them in prayer, Let one party of them stand up (in prayer) with thee, Taking their arms with them: When they finish their prostrations, let them Take their position in the rear. And let the other party come up which hath not yet prayed - and let them pray with thee, Taking all precaution, and bearing arms: the Unbelievers wish, if ye were negligent of your arms and your baggage, to assault you in a single rush. But there is no blame on you if ye put away your arms because of the inconvenience of rain or because ye are ill; but take (every) precaution for yourselves. For the Unbelievers Allah hath prepared a humiliating punishment."

This verse continues speaking about travelling and prayer, but it explains about the situation too. The other situation is wartime. When in wartime, we are allowed to shorten our prayers because we may be in the battlefield, and might fear an attack from the enemy. In conclusion, it simply means that the unbelievers are enemies to Muslims when they pose a danger to us. This is explained further in the next verse.

[Qur'an 4:103] "When ye pass (Congregational) prayers, celebrate Allah's praises, standing, sitting down, or lying down on your sides; but when ye are free from danger, set up Regular Prayers: For such prayers are enjoined on believers at stated times."

It clearly speaks about Muslims being in danger, because it speaks about prayers just like verse 102 does, but it says, "...when you are free from danger, set up Regular Prayers..." which means that it is a situation of danger posed by the disbelievers, which at that time are our enemies [note that it mentions disbelievers who pose a danger to us, not all of them]. The bottom line is that the Qur'an does not just tell us that non-Muslims are our enemies, but it speaks about wartime, or when they pose a danger to us [i.e. threatening us].

"So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them. 4:89"

Out of context again. The next verse helps a great deal in understanding.

[Qur'an 4:90] "Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them)."

You're trying to turn a peaceful message into a violent one, but you will never succeed. This verse is so peaceful, and explains that if the enemies do not wage war against us, and want peace, then God does not open any way for us to war against them.

This quote shows how anyone who has ill feelings against you should be killed.

Let's see...

"Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah. 9:29"

This is chapter 9, the one I've explained about many times. It speaks about treaties, and other things related to conflict between Muslims and non-Muslims back in the days of the Prophet (peace be upon him). This verse is like verse 5 of chapter 9 which I have explained several times.

[Qur'an 9:28] "O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise."

When the beloved prophet had spread the message of Islam, the non-Muslims went into conflicts with him, and waged war against him and other Muslims. These verses (and others in chapter 9) speak about events of that time. When the non-Muslims broke treaties [i.e. peace-treaties, as 9:1-5 speak about], the Muslims were commanded to defend themselves, and fight the non-believers who waged war against them, until the non-believers called for cease fire.

"Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you. 9:123

This verse, just like all others, are quoted out of context. As you can see, it is found in chapter 9, which generally speaks about the Muslims and non-Muslims in the era of the beloved prophet. In order to understand some verses of the Qur'an, you must read them in context, and some of them have a historical background of revelation, so they need historical explanations. For example, chapter 105 speaks about "the possessors of the elephant", and how God sent forces of birds dropping clay on them, so that their "plan" goes astray. If we want to know what their plan was, we will not find it in that chapter.

[Qur'an 105] "Seest thou not how thy Lord dealt with the Companions of the Elephant? (2)Did He not make their treacherous plan go astray? (3)And He sent against them Flights of Birds, (4)Striking them with stones of baked clay. (5)Then did He make them like an empty field of stalks and straw, (of which the corn) has been eaten up.

From authentic hadith, we know that this chapter speaks about some people who prepared a war against Muslims, and they had some elephants. On their way, God sent forces of birds to destroy them, in order to protect Muslims. Therefore, looking at historical evidence [i.e. when the chapter was revealed], and information from authentic hadith, we know what this chapter speaks about, and what other chapters and verses speak about.

You should understand that Muslims are not allowed to kill innocent people, for if they were allowed to do so, we would not have seen any verse in the Qur'an calling for peace, if the non-Muslims want peace. Also, there are numerous authentic hadith where the prophet (peace be upon him) said that when the enemy is met in battle, innocent people, which are old ones, children etc., are to be saved, not killed. Also, I do not know of one single fair-minded Muslim scholar who has ever promoted violence on innocent people. If you read a translation of the Qur'an in English, translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali, you can read his comments on every single verse, and he did not say that any verse promotes violence on innocent people at all, but explained the historical context etc.

Serious point to bring up here:
You say you would like to separate terrorism from Islam?
Then why did the sect known as Wahabism (that's how you pronounce it, but not how you spell it) steer airliners into the World Trade Centers, when Wahabism claims to be an America loving peaceful sect and is 90% of all muslims in America?

Next issue.
My brother is a translator and a linguist in Europe. He came across and read an Arabic version of the Quran printed and sold in Iraq. When he compared it to a later printed version of the Quran from America he noticed than not just small gramatical changes had been made, but total changes in ideology that altered the text in a way that most definitly made it more pleasing to the standards of Western culture. Why do Muslims do this if they are a peaceful people with no hateful intentions to hide?