Born Again Christians

Sorry if this offends anyone but from my limited exposure to born again Christians I have found the following tendencies.

1: A history of drug and/or alchohol abuse.
2: Low achievement professionally and educationally.
3: A lack of logical ability.
4: Contempt for 'book smarts' in favour of faith and intuition.
5: An inability to empathise.
6: Hatred of women (if male).
7: Superiority complex/egomania/narcissism.
8: A masochistic desire for personal abuse.
9: Statements that imply a lack of understanding of sexuality, especially homosexuality, or belie repressed homosexual feelings.

I am beginning to wonder if many of them suffer from some sort of classifiable personality disorder?

Not to mention most Born-again christians were raised christian, but they just didnt practice their beleifs much after they left high school/elementary school.

You're not offensive, just an idiot.

This is a debating site, so the fact that you decided to make a thread to brag about your logical fallacy is sort of sadly ironic.

At 1/8/2010 11:31:03 AM, MistahKurtz wrote:
You're not offensive, just an idiot.

This is a debating site, so the fact that you decided to make a thread to brag about your logical fallacy is sort of sadly ironic.

Replies like that are beneath the dignity of a debating site, if you found my post offensive you did not have to troll, if you disagreed with it you could attempt a cogent response. Resorting to empty unfounded personal abuse makes you come across poorly, please strive to improve the quality of your posts in future.

I don't like Christianists either. But this really isn't a good way to approach an argument. In fact, it reminds me of an article a Christian friend of mine wrote. Here's an excerpt:

I've found, through many years of debate, that Liberal Atheists commonly have large egos. Perhaps they feel they must rely on their intelligence to be religiously correct. Or perhaps it all boils down to yet another case of a common insecurity. Humans must be social, or we experience many mental problems. I've noticed that Liberal Atheists usually have horrid social lives and also have horrible luck with the ladies. When humans are unsociable it is often due to insecurity. Perhaps Liberal Atheists are Atheist because they have nobody to crawl to. Maybe Atheists are Atheist, so they can have praise. Without people to praise them, Atheists praise themselves. They crawl into a corner and become self-worshiping communist. What do you think? Are Atheists insecure, or are they brilliant.

I have since learned to keep a calm head. But a year ago when my friend published this, I felt attacked, as if I were being persecuted. Subsequently, my rational mind left the building, and I became very emotional when rebutting his article. Then, my friend also become emotional, and the argument ultimately went no where.

Thus, I recommend keeping strictly with nonpersonal arguments. If your goal is to truly convince people, then ease them into your argument. Bait them. Don't attack. Attacks don't lead anywhere.

I don't really see what CN said that was wrong or offensive here. Even if you disagree with him, he didn't say that Born Again Christians suffer from a mental illness but rather just noted certain tendencies that he's picked up on (and, to be honest, I noticed them as well). If someone said to me, "Well I've noticed that lesbians don't shave their legs..." I might consider that generalization a little ignorant. However, I know a lot of lesbians that don't in fact shave their legs, so how can I be mad at someone for making that kind of judgment without knowing or being exposed to the culture? An open mind is what's important. Similarly, if CN is wrong about this assessment, as long as he's open-minded to hearing a counter, then I don't see why this is so "offensive." Most BACs that I know readily admit a former problem with drugs, self esteem, sexuality issues, etc.

At 1/8/2010 4:32:43 PM, PoeJoe wrote:

Thus, I recommend keeping strictly with nonpersonal arguments. If your goal is to truly convince people, then ease them into your argument. Bait them. Don't attack. Attacks don't lead anywhere.

What personal attack are you speaking of? I truly didn't notice one... 'splain?

At 1/8/2010 4:41:33 PM, theLwerd wrote:
I don't really see what CN said that was wrong or offensive here. Even if you disagree with him, he didn't say that Born Again Christians suffer from a mental illness but rather just noted certain tendencies that he's picked up on (and, to be honest, I noticed them as well). If someone said to me, "Well I've noticed that lesbians don't shave their legs..." I might consider that generalization a little ignorant. However, I know a lot of lesbians that don't in fact shave their legs, so how can I be mad at someone for making that kind of judgment without knowing or being exposed to the culture? An open mind is what's important. Similarly, if CN is wrong about this assessment, as long as he's open-minded to hearing a counter, then I don't see why this is so "offensive." Most BACs that I know readily admit a former problem with drugs, self esteem, sexuality issues, etc.

At 1/8/2010 4:32:43 PM, PoeJoe wrote:

Thus, I recommend keeping strictly with nonpersonal arguments. If your goal is to truly convince people, then ease them into your argument. Bait them. Don't attack. Attacks don't lead anywhere.

What personal attack are you speaking of? I truly didn't notice one... 'splain?

I've noticed some of the points CN noted, as well. His points may or may not be true. Insofar as this discussion extends, I don't really care.

My main contention here is that such discussion doesn't hold much relevancy in a board like this. Among sociologists or psychologists? Maybe. But if CN's goal is to convert BNCs, he better avoid such discussion, regardless of how real these statements seem to him or how objectively valid they are. Such discussion only repels BNCs, and perpetuates the POV that atheist are big meanies who they should not mess with.

Again, I'll repeat my main contention. These are not the arguments that CN should be using to convert BNCs. It hurts CN's cause than it helps. It's better simply not to mention these observations.

At 1/8/2010 4:32:43 PM, PoeJoe wrote:

My main contention here is that such discussion doesn't hold much relevancy in a board like this. Among sociologists or psychologists? Maybe. But if CN's goal is to convert BNCs, he better avoid such discussion, regardless of how real these statements seem to him or how objectively valid they are. Such discussion only repels BNCs, and perpetuates the POV that atheist are big meanies who they should not mess with.

Again, I'll repeat my main contention. These are not the arguments that CN should be using to convert BNCs. It hurts CN's cause than it helps. It's better simply not to mention these observations.

Okay... but where was it implied that CN was trying to "convert" anyone?

He said: I am beginning to wonder if many of them suffer from some sort of classifiable personality disorder?

It seems as if he wasn't even addressing 'them' directly but rather asking if anyone else had noticed these trends or tendencies. So why is this type of question appropriate for psychologists or sociologists but not for us? It seems to me as if in offering our opinions - educated or not - we all act as sociologists or psychologists. You said he should avoid these points "regardless of how real these statements seem to him or how objectively valid they are." Uh, then what the hell is anyone supposed to say that others might not find offensive? It seems to me that you're admitting his points were pretty objective. Do you really think that people's comments around here are generally objective? Regardless, your whole "point" stems from the fact that you think his approach won't be effective at converting anyone, but I don't think conversion is his goal - I think discussion is - and so far I don't notice anything too impolite (just some seemingly objective generalizations, most of which I agree with... at least until further discussion).

At 1/8/2010 5:11:59 PM, theLwerd wrote:

At 1/8/2010 4:32:43 PM, PoeJoe wrote:

My main contention here is that such discussion doesn't hold much relevancy in a board like this. Among sociologists or psychologists? Maybe. But if CN's goal is to convert BNCs, he better avoid such discussion, regardless of how real these statements seem to him or how objectively valid they are. Such discussion only repels BNCs, and perpetuates the POV that atheist are big meanies who they should not mess with.

Again, I'll repeat my main contention. These are not the arguments that CN should be using to convert BNCs. It hurts CN's cause than it helps. It's better simply not to mention these observations.

Okay... but where was it implied that CN was trying to "convert" anyone?

He said: I am beginning to wonder if many of them suffer from some sort of classifiable personality disorder?

It seems as if he wasn't even addressing 'them' directly but rather asking if anyone else had noticed these trends or tendencies. So why is this type of question appropriate for psychologists or sociologists but not for us? It seems to me as if in offering our opinions - educated or not - we all act as sociologists or psychologists. You said he should avoid these points "regardless of how real these statements seem to him or how objectively valid they are." Uh, then what the hell is anyone supposed to say that others might not find offensive? It seems to me that you're admitting his points were pretty objective. Do you really think that people's comments around here are generally objective? Regardless, your whole "point" stems from the fact that you think his approach won't be effective at converting anyone, but I don't think conversion is his goal - I think discussion is - and so far I don't notice anything too impolite (just some seemingly objective generalizations, most of which I agree with... at least until further discussion).

I was mainly responding to CN's: "Replies like that are beneath the dignity of a debating site, if you found my post offensive you did not have to troll, if you disagreed with it you could attempt a cogent response. Resorting to empty unfounded personal abuse makes you come across poorly, please strive to improve the quality of your posts in future."

See what I mean?

Besides, it's not like anyone on this board is actually qualified to diagnose personality disorders--much less professionally assign a personality disorder to a large body of people. It would appear as if CN's opening post was made to provoke people, particularly Christians who feel they're being attacked.

At 1/8/2010 12:15:02 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Sorry if this offends anyone but from my limited exposure to born again Christians I have found the following tendencies.

1: A history of drug and/or alchohol abuse.
2: Low achievement professionally and educationally.
3: A lack of logical ability.
4: Contempt for 'book smarts' in favour of faith and intuition.
5: An inability to empathise.
6: Hatred of women (if male).
7: Superiority complex/egomania/narcissism.
8: A masochistic desire for personal abuse.
9: Statements that imply a lack of understanding of sexuality, especially homosexuality, or belie repressed homosexual feelings.

I am beginning to wonder if many of them suffer from some sort of classifiable personality disorder?

I really hate to say this, because I know it isn't true of everyone and I'm afraid it may be taken out of context, but I have found that deeply religious Christians may be so devout because 1) Faith is a virtue, 2) Other virtues besides faith are harder to work at and 3) the devout wants to feel virtuous. I've known a number of religious people who have converted simply because they had failed at being kind, generous, thoughtful, considerate people, and had suffered for it, and wanted something to be proud of that they knew they could achieve. One such thing is faith -- which is easy to achieve because it basically makes a virtue out of being close-minded. I think I can sum it up this way: faith gives you a psychological excuse for failure. It also helps those with moral inferiority complexes feel better about themselves (sure I drink too much and abuse my children, but at least I know God!) As I have said before, this doesn't apply to everyone ... but it does apply to some people, and I've seen it in a large number of zealous Christians, including 'Born Again' Christians ... even in my own family.

And you would be right to link lack of education with such a mentality ... it's an overall product of that person's general lack of effort in contemplating actions and attempt to justify the same.