Occupy Weakness

At 12/5/2011 11:13:29 AM, Greyparrot wrote:

At 12/5/2011 8:03:30 AM, Danielle wrote:
Btw the Chinese aren't capitalist.

Interesting theory.

Define capitalist, then we'll talk about my theory.

At 12/5/2011 11:18:54 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
That was a pretty concise explanation of why the leader decided to use Wells Fargo temporarily to avoid harm to members in a jail environment.

The question still remains, if the protestors are not willing to suffer a night in jail, what are they willing to put up with? Why is a night in jail more aggregious to these people than McWall street?

Because spending a night in jail won't help their cause in any way, so there's no point. Further, putting money into a bank temporarily for a matter of hours (days at best) when they are going to immediately remove it does nothing to undermine their message. There is a clear problem of corruption between Wall Street and government politicians. As I said to PL, I will detail this further in another thread. You're once again making the fallacious argument that one's point is not valid if they are not willing to suffer for it.

At 12/6/2011 2:33:11 AM, MarquisX wrote:
I'm trying Danielle but....I just can't. I can't give the OWS crowd any respect. Listen I'm not naive, I know the corporations don't give two flying fucks about me. Something needs to be done. But I've always been a huge believer in "If you're going to do something, do it right" OWS is never going to succeed. The more i read, the less impressed and supportive I am. And it was doomed from the start.

There is a lot of hostility toward OWS, and a lot of unwarranted criticisms. This contributed to it being "doomed from the start" though I guess only time will tell for sure. Some of the criticisms (that you, mongeese and PL) brought up are completely valid. Others are just more zzZZzzz capitalism is so great zzZzzz yawn stuff.

Because they've made this about money. You can not, will not, get people to give up money. Everyone in this thread, if you were a billionaire you'd be selfish and greedy. I know this is the internet so most people are going to reply" Omg i wouldn't. I would share". Shut up. You're a liar. Science says we're greedy people and you can't beat science. Now the fact that we are all greedy still doesn't make it OK but they should have made this about the governments failure to protect us. Not people being greedy.

1) It is completely not true that science necessarily mandates we are greedy. In fact, cooperation has been a huge contributing factor in the evolutionary process.

2) The whole "money is the be-all, end-all" is just the result of capitalist brainwashing. Society's values are based on what one is surrounded with. If someone grew up in a commune, they're not going to be greedy money monsters the way someone who was raised under a capitalist system might be. The point here isn't that one is better than the other (that argument is for another day), but that the only reason you think money is so important is because we have made it important. At the end of the day, you can't eat money.

3) If you agree that the government failed to protect its citizens (and it's blatantly obvious they did, and in fact contributed to the problem significantly) then you agree with the vast majority of OSW. Maybe instead of criticizing what they are doing wrong, if you agree with a significant part of their message then perhaps you can stop being so lazy, employ some activism and go out and suffer yourself in defense of the cause.

At 12/6/2011 3:20:42 AM, Mirza wrote:

At 12/6/2011 2:33:11 AM, MarquisX wrote:
I know the corporations don't give two flying fucks about me. Something needs to be done.

Most corporations cannot be successful without doing something good to people. I think people heavily undervalue the moral aspect of the success of corporations.

They provide a good or service and people want to utilize their good or service, and can afford to do so. That is the only requirement of a successful corporation. They have not one moral obligation whatsoever, and in fact frequently bend and break the rules to avoid moral responsibility.

At 12/6/2011 12:23:35 PM, Danielle wrote:

At 12/6/2011 2:33:11 AM, MarquisX wrote:
I'm trying Danielle but....I just can't. I can't give the OWS crowd any respect. Listen I'm not naive, I know the corporations don't give two flying fucks about me. Something needs to be done. But I've always been a huge believer in "If you're going to do something, do it right" OWS is never going to succeed. The more i read, the less impressed and supportive I am. And it was doomed from the start.

There is a lot of hostility toward OWS, and a lot of unwarranted criticisms. This contributed to it being "doomed from the start" though I guess only time will tell for sure. Some of the criticisms (that you, mongeese and PL) brought up are completely valid. Others are just more zzZZzzz capitalism is so great zzZzzz yawn stuff.

Yes but most arguments for OWS are pretty much zzZZzzz capitalism is so unfair yawn stuff.

Because they've made this about money. You can not, will not, get people to give up money. Everyone in this thread, if you were a billionaire you'd be selfish and greedy. I know this is the internet so most people are going to reply" Omg i wouldn't. I would share". Shut up. You're a liar. Science says we're greedy people and you can't beat science. Now the fact that we are all greedy still doesn't make it OK but they should have made this about the governments failure to protect us. Not people being greedy.

1) It is completely not true that science necessarily mandates we are greedy. In fact, cooperation has been a huge contributing factor in the evolutionary process.

My apologies. I didn't mean it this way. What I meant was we are programmed to keep more than we need.

2) The whole "money is the be-all, end-all" is just the result of capitalist brainwashing. Society's values are based on what one is surrounded with. If someone grew up in a commune, they're not going to be greedy money monsters the way someone who was raised under a capitalist system might be. The point here isn't that one is better than the other (that argument is for another day), but that the only reason you think money is so important is because we have made it important. At the end of the day, you can't eat money.

I wouldn't call it brain washing but yes money is important to capitalism. And no you can't eat money but I'd much rather be a hungry billionaire than a fat hobo.

3) If you agree that the government failed to protect its citizens (and it's blatantly obvious they did, and in fact contributed to the problem significantly) then you agree with the vast majority of OSW. Maybe instead of criticizing what they are doing wrong, if you agree with a significant part of their message then perhaps you can stop being so lazy, employ some activism and go out and suffer yourself in defense of the cause.

Whoa. OK so me working my butt off to make money and NOT standing around is being lazy? Because i won't suffer for a cause with people who also who suffer for their cause? They won't give up their electronic gadgets, won't stand in the rain, won't spend the night in jail, and uses a big bank because its "easier". Pathetic. My great grandmother faced attack dogs and powerful water hoses. So yep. I am content with letting the corporations run the world rather than be thrown in with thier idiotic and hypocritical opposition. Life's not fair. Next lesson

At 12/6/2011 2:57:14 PM, MarquisX wrote:
Yes but most arguments for OWS are pretty much zzZZzzz capitalism is so unfair yawn stuff.

In general, I completely agree. However talk to someone who is knowledgeable and articulate, and they will be able to vocalize what the majority of people are frustrated with.

My apologies. I didn't mean it this way. What I meant was we are programmed to keep more than we need.

True, but I think there's a difference between keeping more than you need for legitimate survival and exploiting a ton of people unconscionably for your own gain. I'm pretty sure we hold humans to a particular standard of morality, or at least we claim to.

I wouldn't call it brain washing but yes money is important to capitalism. And no you can't eat money but I'd much rather be a hungry billionaire than a fat hobo.

But it is brainwashing. First, I can go into a whole rant about how/why economics is taught solely from a pro-capitalist stance in this country, but I digress. When I said you can't eat money, I meant to say that money is not an inherent resource; it's only important because we give it value. In other words, there are other value systems we can use without assuming that money is the be-all and end-all. I really dunno what your hungry billionaire analogy was about.

Whoa. OK so me working my butt off to make money and NOT standing around is being lazy? Because i won't suffer for a cause with people who also who suffer for their cause? They won't give up their electronic gadgets, won't stand in the rain, won't spend the night in jail, and uses a big bank because its "easier". Pathetic. My great grandmother faced attack dogs and powerful water hoses.

No. What I said was that if you agree that the government should have been doing more to protect its citizens (i.e., regulate the banks so they didn't run the economic system into financial ruin, only to be bailed out by the taxpayers) then you agree with the majority of OSW's message. As such, if you agree with their message, then you shouldn't stand there pointing fingers and calling them lazy or whatever. You should be joining them and helping to support their cause. Otherwise, what you're saying is that you do want change, but you don't want to be part of the catalyst for change. I think it's embarrassing that people who actually do side with OWS are brainwashed to speak against them, because they are being portrayed as weak and lazy, and people don't want to be associated with that.

If you only have a problem with the way OSW is being run (lack of resolution, lack of organization, or any other problem you might have) then why not join them and try to IMPROVE the movement so as to have a better chance for success? In other words, I don't see the point in you sitting there on your high horse talking down on other people for actually doing something. I don't see you doing anything. Sure, there tactics and approach may not be perfect (nobody would say it is!), but at least they're not turning a blind eye like most sheeple. At least they're acknowledging that we're slaves to the system.

You admit you don't want to suffer for a cause, but chastise them for not suffering enough for their cause. Interesting. I think it's interesting that people think suffering must occur in order to give something merit. Just because black people endured police brutality and violent dogs during the Civil Rights Movement doesn't mean they should have had to. They did endure it, just like OSW has endured MULTIPLE instances of police brutality... so your point is nonsense.

So yep. I am content with letting the corporations run the world rather than be thrown in with thier idiotic and hypocritical opposition. Life's not fair. Next lesson

So you'd rather be an oppressed slave to the system rather than get off your a$s and actually try to contribute positively to a movement that may need your help. Lol, interesting. I also think it's hilarious that you just said "Life's not fair. Next lesson" right after talking about your grandmother getting attacked by dogs. Okay, genius, maybe black people should just shut the fvck up, sit at the back of the bus, serve me and kiss my white a$s because hey - life's just not fair. Next lesson.

Oh where to begin. First and foremost, you want to talk race, racism is different from. They were fighting for their own rights. Their own freedom. OWS is mad about others having too much money. Not the same thing. This ain't liberation, its a rich people lynch mob. You want to talk brainwashing? I don't appreciate OWS trying to brainwash me." We are the 99%" fukk you. You don't know me. Don't group me in with you. And that's what makes angry. Cause, just like the corporations, they don't give a sh1t about me or my family. Where the hell where you when i struggled to get out of Compton? Where were you when I was using outdated textbooks? You aren't me. We ain't family. If i stopped working, for your fuckin protest, would you buy me food? Would you buy my son diapers? He has a doctors appointment coming up, you going to pay for that? No? Then f*ck off. I'm not a slave to the system. I'm above the system. I'm above you. I'm above bill gates and the rest of the 1%. I choose my destiny, my fate. And i will NOT put it in the hands of a bunch of college kids who don't know the true meaning of poor. Who don't know the true meaning of inequality. If OWS had or somehow does get its sh!t together, I will support them. But it will still be from the sidelines. Because you people didn't really think about the majority of the 99%. The mothafuckas that have to grind every goddamn day. If you truly represented us, then you wouldn't fail so hard. You're in a position to make history. You're blowing it. So I'm going to ride my high horse right to the bank. My son needs new shoes.

At 12/6/2011 4:06:27 PM, MarquisX wrote:
Oh where to begin. First and foremost, you want to talk race, racism is different from. They were fighting for their own rights. Their own freedom. OWS is mad about others having too much money. Not the same thing. This ain't liberation, its a rich people lynch mob.

Oh, where to begin. Racism is actually not that different. The links between racism and classism are innumerable. You say blacks fought for "freedom." Actually, blacks were not enslaved during the 1960s when they fought for Civil Rights. They fought to not have to sit at the back of the bus, to not have to drink from separate water fountains, etc. However if you truly believed in capitalism, then you would say that blacks should have to drink from a different water fountain if whites owned the water fountain and didn't want black people drinking from it. Fail.

You're wrong in saying this isn't about "liberation." That is absolutely what it is about: libertarian from the endless cycle of corruption between Wall Street fat cats and the politicians they pay to deregulate commerce, so that they can continue their shoddy business practices and get rich at the taxpayer's expense, ultimately fvcking the middle and working class up the a$s while you sit there and make fun of the people smart and passionate enough to draw attention to this unsuccessful, scummy model that our government operates on. Please - it is absolutely about liberation.

You want to talk brainwashing? I don't appreciate OWS trying to brainwash me." We are the 99%" fukk you. You don't know me. Don't group me in with you.

Lol, are you part of the 1% of people who own 42% of the country's wealth? No. So you are in fact part of the 99% they are referring to.

I have seen you react very emotionally in this thread. That is what your "arguments" are based on - not logic. You are so defensive that these people are trying to define you, that you are senselessly attacking them while they attempt to fight the current system that hurts you (and if you think it doesn't then you are seriously, seriously ignorant).

Actually, throughout this thread you have said silly things ("I don't care if corporations run the world so long as I am not seen as part of that idiotic group!"). You care more about your own ego and how you think you come off to other people rather than attempt to put the pieces together and figure out right from wrong. You seem insecure. You are probably brainwashed into thinking it's a masculinity thing or strength of character thing to be so individualistic and cut-throat (the "life's just not fair" bullsh!t).

And that's what makes angry. Cause, just like the corporations, they don't give a sh1t about me or my family. Where the hell where you when i struggled to get out of Compton? Where were you when I was using outdated textbooks? You aren't me. We ain't family. If i stopped working, for your fuckin protest, would you buy me food? Would you buy my son diapers? He has a doctors appointment coming up, you going to pay for that? No? Then f*ck off.

First of all, the group isn't out to support you or anyone. It's trying to call attention to a bad system that needs fixing. Period. Second of all, everyone knows that OSW gives out free food, sleeping bags and shelter (albeit tents lol - nothing extravagant). That is more than super rich corporations will offer you, despite the people at OSW just being lower to working class volunteers with not much to spare.

Regardless, your perception is so completely warped that I don't even know where to begin. I guess I'm trying to be patient in the hopes that you can actually take something positive away from this dialog. Basically, I have no idea why you think you should side with the group more likely to give something to you or your family, personally. The debate is about the merit of the system and what solutions would be better - not which side cares more about your family.

Each side are comprised of nothing but individuals - strangers who know nothing about you or your family, so of course don't care about you personally. However, it'd be silly and dishonest for you to suggest that corporations care more about your well-being than the people of the OSW movement.

Besides, I really think this is about the banking system and corruption (money in politics). I think the whole "Corporations are evil" thing is really just being highlighted by a minority from the movement; probably the communists. They don't speak for the entire movement, and nothing official I've seen (in terms of goals) said anything about bringing down corporations. Perhaps OSW is against corporate personhood or something like that (where corporations are given the same rights as humans, which is ridiculously problematic).

I'm not a slave to the system. I'm above the system. I'm above you. I'm above bill gates and the rest of the 1%. I choose my destiny, my fate.

I really don't want to be disrespectful, but all I can say to this is L...O...L.

I could go into so0o many points easily arguing against this. I'd love to just debate it with you formally, but I couldn't even think of a proper resolution off the top of my head. Basically, it's completely ignorant to think that you have so much control of your destiny. Not only do I NOT believe in free will from a philosophical and quantum physics perspective (lol, that's another story), but you yourself negated this very idea. Just a few sentences ago you complained about having bad textbooks. Right there, you're acknowledging that kids from poor areas have far less access to quality education and therefore a plethora of other opportunities.

You are born into a situation of advantages and disadvantages. You can certainly make choices that impact your fate, but you are still shackled by your environment: your biological make-up, your community, your networking opportunities, etc. For instance, someone who was born mentally retarded cannot "choose their own fate" to the extent that you think you can. Obviously they are disadvantaged. Similarly, people born into poor economic situations, bad family situations, etc. are disadvantaged. It would be silly for you to say you are above the system. You are in the thick of it lol, supporting it blindly.

And i will NOT put it in the hands of a bunch of college kids who don't know the true meaning of poor.

It's fallacious to say an argument doesn't have merit based on who supports it (so-called "college kids"). Further, you're spewing more Fox News propoganda about how the OWS movement is nothing but a bunch of spoiled, young, lazy hippies. Yawn. This has been disproven many times over. Have you actually been to an Occupy site? NOPE. So you have no idea who is there protesting. There are a bunch of economists who support the movement too. Moreover, young people are usually at the heart of EVERY movement. They are the ones with the time to invest (no career, kids or obligations).

Who don't know the true meaning of inequality.

Terribly presumptuous of you to say. You know nothing about them, hypocrite.

If OWS had or somehow does get its sh!t together, I will support them.

But you won't do anything to help them get their sh!t together, I see. Nice.

But it will still be from the sidelines. Because you people didn't really think about the majority of the 99%. The mothafuckas that have to grind every goddamn day. If you truly represented us, then you wouldn't fail so hard. You're in a position to make history. You're blowing it.

You're talking to the wrong side, my friend.

So I'm going to ride my high horse right to the bank. My son needs new shoes.

Lol, you work hard and are lucky if you can buy your son shoes. Wall St. fat cats operate on illegal pyramid schemes that fvck the entire economy while they get rich at your expense and you sit there defending it. Hilarious :)

At 12/6/2011 4:51:44 PM, Danielle wrote:

At 12/6/2011 4:06:27 PM, MarquisX wrote:

Oh, where to begin. Racism is actually not that different. The links between racism and classism are innumerable. You say blacks fought for "freedom." Actually, blacks were not enslaved during the 1960s when they fought for Civil Rights. They fought to not have to sit at the back of the bus, to not have to drink from separate water fountains, etc. However if you truly believed in capitalism, then you would say that blacks should have to drink from a different water fountain if whites owned the water fountain and didn't want black people drinking from it. Fail.

I could compare the sun to a light bulb. That don't make it the same thing. And no don't come at me with that idiocy. If i truly believed in capitalism i would say that if a white man owned a water fountain then its his property and he should use it, how he sees fit.

You're wrong in saying this isn't about "liberation." That is absolutely what it is about: libertarian from the endless cycle of corruption between Wall Street fat cats and the politicians they pay to deregulate commerce, so that they can continue their shoddy business practices and get rich at the taxpayer's expense, ultimately fvcking the middle and working class up the a$s while you sit there and make fun of the people smart and passionate enough to draw attention to this unsuccessful, scummy model that our government operates on. Please - it is absolutely about liberation.

Smart people. Are you fuckin serious? Dollars to donuts the average OWS protester is a moron. But I'll say this I support the very few intelligent members who actually know they're doing.

Lol, are you part of the 1% of people who own 42% of the country's wealth? No. So you are in fact part of the 99% they are referring to.

True. But I'm still not them. Don't say " we are the 99%" if you are aren't.

I have seen you react very emotionally in this thread. That is what your "arguments" are based on - not logic. You are so defensive that these people are trying to define you, that you are senselessly attacking them while they attempt to fight the current system that hurts you (and if you think it doesn't then you are seriously, seriously ignorant).

I'm not attacking anything. This thread is about my problems with OWS. I can't criticize the people who supposedly represent me? I don't want it to stop, i want it to be better.

Actually, throughout this thread you have said silly things ("I don't care if corporations run the world so long as I am not seen as part of that idiotic group!"). You care more about your own ego and how you think you come off to other people rather than attempt to put the pieces together and figure out right from wrong. You seem insecure. You are probably brainwashed into thinking it's a masculinity thing or strength of character thing to be so individualistic and cut-throat (the "life's just not fair" bullsh!t).

Funny. You're trying to brainwash me into thinking I've been brainwashed. Maybe i just have an opinion.

First of all, the group isn't out to support you or anyone. It's trying to call attention to a bad system that needs fixing. Period. Second of all, everyone knows that OSW gives out free food, sleeping bags and shelter (albeit tents lol - nothing extravagant). That is more than super rich corporations will offer you, despite the people at OSW just being lower to working class volunteers with not much to spare.

My 11 month old child in a tent. Where do i sign up?

Regardless, your perception is so completely warped that I don't even know where to begin. I guess I'm trying to be patient in the hopes that you can actually take something positive away from this dialog. Basically, I have no idea why you think you should side with the group more likely to give something to you or your family, personally. The debate is about the merit of the system and what solutions would be better - not which side cares more about your family.

Each side are comprised of nothing but individuals - strangers who know nothing about you or your family, so of course don't care about you personally. However, it'd be silly and dishonest for you to suggest that corporations care more about your well-being than the people of the OSW movement.

I didn't.

Besides, I really think this is about the banking system and corruption (money in politics). I think the whole "Corporations are evil" thing is really just being highlighted by a minority from the movement; probably the communists. They don't speak for the entire movement, and nothing official I've seen (in terms of goals) said anything about bringing down corporations. Perhaps OSW is against corporate personhood or something like that (where corporations are given the same rights as humans, which is ridiculously problematic).
.

I really don't want to be disrespectful, but all I can say to this is L...O...L.

I could go into so0o many points easily arguing against this. I'd love to just debate it with you formally, but I couldn't even think of a proper resolution off the top of my head. Basically, it's completely ignorant to think that you have so much control of your destiny. Not only do I NOT believe in free will from a philosophical and quantum physics perspective (lol, that's another story), but you yourself negated this very idea. Just a few sentences ago you complained about having bad textbooks. Right there, you're acknowledging that kids from poor areas have far less access to quality education and therefore a plethora of other opportunities.

Resolution: You have no control over the outcome of your life.

You are born into a situation of advantages and disadvantages. You can certainly make choices that impact your fate, but you are still shackled by your environment: your biological make-up, your community, your networking opportunities, etc. For instance, someone who was born mentally retarded cannot "choose their own fate" to the extent that you think you can. Obviously they are disadvantaged. Similarly, people born into poor economic situations, bad family situations, etc. are disadvantaged. It would be silly for you to say you are above the system. You are in the thick of it lol, supporting it blindly.

Just because i born disadvantaged, doesn't mean i gave in. Grew up in Compton, CA. Never been in a gang, never been to jail. I'm in school, I work and i live in one of the most expensive places in America. Bullsh*t i don't control my destiny.

It's fallacious to say an argument doesn't have merit based on who supports it (so-called "college kids"). Further, you're spewing more Fox News propoganda about how the OWS movement is nothing but a bunch of spoiled, young, lazy hippies.

Nope. I just called them weak for not giving up their luxuries. "College kids" wasn't an insult. I meant they are not smarter than me so i won't put my destiny in their hands. Yes. I think highly of myself. As do you Danielle.

Yawn. This has been disproven many times over. Have you actually been to an Occupy site? NOPE. So you have no idea who is there protesting. There are a bunch of economists who support the movement too. Moreover, young people are usually at the heart of EVERY movement. They are the ones with the time to invest (no career, kids or obligations).

Yes i have. There is one here in Hawaii. It was after meeting them that i made this thread.

Terribly presumptuous of you to say. You know nothing about them, hypocrite.

True dat.

But you won't do anything to help them get their sh!t together, I see. Nice.

That's what this thread is about. You think every black person did the march on Washington? Some niggas had sh*t to do.

You're talking to the wrong side, my friend.

What?

No luck. I earned every bit of that money.

At 12/6/2011 5:53:41 PM, MarquisX wrote:
I could compare the sun to a light bulb. That don't make it the same thing.

No, but the analogy is accurate. You said, "Life's not fair" as if we should accept injustice for that reason alone. So, I pointed out that we have absolutely no reason to accept the concept of racial equality. Non-whites should just stfu because too bad - life's not fair. You clearly acknowledge that injustice ought to be challenged. Whether or not you view current government and economic policy as injustice is the question (and if you don't, like I said, you're just ignorant).

And no don't come at me with that idiocy. If i truly believed in capitalism i would say that if a white man owned a water fountain then its his property and he should use it, how he sees fit.

Ummmm yep. That's exactly what I said.

Smart people. Are you fuckin serious? Dollars to donuts the average OWS protester is a moron. But I'll say this I support the very few intelligent members who actually know they're doing.

I love how you're generalizing and making assumptions even though you've never been to a protest. How the fvck do you know ANYTHING about people's intelligence whom you've never even met or spoken to? That's like saying the majority of black people are retarded. Because they're black. And obviously that's a big enough reason to generalize someone, just like saying supporting OSW is a big enough reason to assume someone is a moron... right? The idiocy astounds me.

Additionally, you've just continued to make my point further. If you agree with the "few smart ones" then you agree a part of the movement has merit, and I don't see why you wouldn't help make it better... buuuut I guess that actually requires some action and not just criticizing and finger pointing. It's easy to do that from the outside, innit?

True. But I'm still not them. Don't say " we are the 99%" if you are aren't.

Except you just admitted you are.

I'm not attacking anything. This thread is about my problems with OWS. I can't criticize the people who supposedly represent me? I don't want it to stop, i want it to be better.

I'm genuinely very glad to see you say that. However they don't claim to represent you...? They don't say they speak for the entire 99% they are referring to.

Funny. You're trying to brainwash me into thinking I've been brainwashed. Maybe i just have an opinion.

Yeah, and all opinions are based on something. I'm trying to show you the other side so that you can make an informed decision, so that you aren't limited to right-wing propaganda.

My 11 month old child in a tent. Where do i sign up?

If you were homeless, a tent would be better than nothing... which is what corporations are offering you for free, so your sarcasm falls upon deaf ears.

I didn't.

Yes you did. You went on a whole rant about OSW doesn't care about you because they don't help support your family. Considering corporations don't either (and the goal of the movement itself has nothing whatsoever to do with helping people individually) then this is not a strong point against them.

Resolution: You have no control over the outcome of your life.

I would gladly accept this debate.

Be forewarned that it would become a debate about free will, which may delve into philosophical or scientific concepts you're not comfortable with. However you did not respond to one of my points in this regard, which is the more important issue.

As a Labor Studies major, my entire realm of study focuses on disparities between the elite and the working class. While it's entirely possible to move upward financially, the reality is that these rags-to-riches stories are few and far between. In fact, upward financial mobility used to be the norm in this country; each generation was better off than the last. However, that is no longer the case today. Study after study shows that the vast majority of people are born into a particular class and stay there.

"Because the streets is a short stop. Either you're slinging crack rock or you got a wicked jump shot." -- Biggie has it right. If you're from the ghetto, you better hope to gawd you're a good athlete or else your opportunities kind of end there.

Just because i born disadvantaged, doesn't mean i gave in. Grew up in Compton, CA. Never been in a gang, never been to jail. I'm in school, I work and i live in one of the most expensive places in America. Bullsh*t i don't control my destiny.

I never said you didn't. I responded to your claim, "I'm not a slave to the system. I'm above the system. I'm above you. I'm above bill gates and the rest of the 1%. I choose my destiny, my fate."

Obviously you're not above the system. You literally live within the system - every part of it. You buy into capitalist consumerism (we all do). You pay taxes. I mean, how you can say you are above the system is laughable. Nobody is. Saying you're above me and Bill Gates...? Um, I guess? I dunno what you mean, but sure, if that's how you feel. By saying you are above Bill Gates, it may mean you don't care about his money... and that's fine? Good for you? That doesn't mean the system is a good one. Like I said, you do make choices that determine your fate, but I don't see what that has to do with your criticism of the Movement at all. Everyone makes choices, but that doesn't mean the system isn't inherently unfair by any means.

Nope. I just called them weak for not giving up their luxuries. "College kids" wasn't an insult. I meant they are not smarter than me so i won't put my destiny in their hands. Yes. I think highly of myself. As do you Danielle.

It's funny to me that you think age is a prerequisite for intelligence, LOL. I know plenty of college kids who are smarter than the vast majority of older people. The fact that they are college educated shouldn't be used to put them down. Further, I already negated your argument about why "not giving up their luxuries" is a terrible argument; I guess you forgot that part. If you can't negate it (which you can't, and haven't) then you can keep repeating it but it won't make your point any more true.

Yes i have. There is one here in Hawaii. It was after meeting them that i made this thread.

Which one? What were they doing? I know every city is different. Oakland and New York City have been the most prominent; I know nothing about Hawaii. I do know about Chicago and Madison as I have friends there.

True dat.

I do appreciate your honesty. I can respect that.

That's what this thread is about. You think every black person did the march on Washington? Some niggas had sh*t to do.

Lol, so why are you complaining about the college kids out there? Who else do you think has time for that ish?! Obviously the people who don't have obligations or mouths to feed are going to be the ones making a racket. More power to em.

Honestly, I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm trying to show how a lot of the criticisms are unwarranted. I've already acknowledged the ones that have merit -- that OSW lacks a clear goal or something specific that they'd like to accomplish. However aside from that, I think they are being represented very unfairly. It's in my nature to feel compelled to protect and stand up for those I think are being bullied.

At 12/6/2011 7:45:39 PM, Danielle wrote:

-sigh- this is getting boring.

No, but the analogy is accurate. You said, "Life's not fair" as if we should accept injustice for that reason alone. So, I pointed out that we have absolutely no reason to accept the concept of racial equality. Non-whites should just stfu because too bad - life's not fair. You clearly acknowledge that injustice ought to be challenged. Whether or not you view current government and economic policy as injustice is the question (and if you don't, like I said, you're just ignorant).

Its still not the same thing. A bus and a motorcycle are both motor vehicles. You can't for 25 people, comfortably on a motorcycle. Again just because they are similar don't make them the exact same.

Ummmm yep. That's exactly what I said.

So that's a fail how? You would command people to give up their own property?

I love how you're generalizing and making assumptions even though you've never been to a protest. How the fvck do you know ANYTHING about people's intelligence whom you've never even met or spoken to? That's like saying the majority of black people are retarded. Because they're black. And obviously that's a big enough reason to generalize someone, just like saying supporting OSW is a big enough reason to assume someone is a moron... right? The idiocy astounds me.

So i have to meet every single OWS person, in order to have an opinion? Man what the hell is wrong with you? I'm sticking to generalizations. You want to believe all blacks are retarded? Go ahead. Some of them probably are.

Additionally, you've just continued to make my point further. If you agree with the "few smart ones" then you agree a part of the movement has merit, and I don't see why you wouldn't help make it better... buuuut I guess that actually requires some action and not just criticizing and finger pointing. It's easy to do that from the outside, innit?

What do you want from me? Does criticism not count as help?

Except you just admitted you are.

OK. I'm start to think your being annoying on purpose. Check this. I said Mark Zuckerburg was your enemy because he's a billionaire....a 1%er. You said he wasn't. So why is he exempt but I'm not?

I'm genuinely very glad to see you say that. However they don't claim to represent you...? They don't say they speak for the entire 99% they are referring to.

"We are the 99%" sounds like they, in fact, are trying to represent me.

Yeah, and all opinions are based on something. I'm trying to show you the other side so that you can make an informed decision, so that you aren't limited to right-wing propaganda.

I know both sides sweetie.

If you were homeless, a tent would be better than nothing... which is what corporations are offering you for free, so your sarcasm falls upon deaf ears.

The ows here aren't offering tents to the homeless. Which is a huge problem here. And since I'm typing this, its a good thing the deaf can read.

I didn't.

Yes you did. You went on a whole rant about OSW doesn't care about you because they don't help support your family. Considering corporations don't either (and the goal of the movement itself has nothing whatsoever to do with helping people individually) then this is not a strong point against them.

Not that they don't. They WONT. Which is why i can not protest with you. Someone needs to provide for my kid and it won't be you people obviously.

I would gladly accept this debate.

Let's do it.

Be forewarned that it would become a debate about free will, which may delve into philosophical or scientific concepts you're not comfortable with.

God that sounds boring.

However you did not respond to one of my points in this regard, which is the more important issue.

As a Labor Studies major, my entire realm of study focuses on disparities between the elite and the working class. While it's entirely possible to move upward financially, the reality is that these rags-to-riches stories are few and far between. In fact, upward financial mobility used to be the norm in this country; each generation was better off than the last. However, that is no longer the case today. Study after study shows that the vast majority of people are born into a particular class and stay there.

"Because the streets is a short stop. Either you're slinging crack rock or you got a wicked jump shot." -- Biggie has it right. If you're from the ghetto, you better hope to gawd you're a good athlete or else your opportunities kind of end there.

No he doesn't. Jesus Christ. Are you saying that if i don't play sports, my chances to be someone goes away? If we were having this conversation in person, I'd smack the shet out of you. Never have i heard something so idiotic.

I never said you didn't. I responded to your claim, "I'm not a slave to the system. I'm above the system. I'm above you. I'm above bill gates and the rest of the 1%. I choose my destiny, my fate."

Obviously you're not above the system. You literally live within the system - every part of it. You buy into capitalist consumerism (we all do). You pay taxes. I mean, how you can say you are above the system is laughable. Nobody is. Saying you're above me and Bill Gates...? Um, I guess? I dunno what you mean, but sure, if that's how you feel. By saying you are above Bill Gates, it may mean you don't care about his money... and that's fine? Good for you? That doesn't mean the system is a good one. Like I said, you do make choices that determine your fate, but I don't see what that has to do with your criticism of the Movement at all. Everyone makes choices, but that doesn't mean the system isn't inherently unfair by any means.

I mean this entire war over money is beneath me. The system is money. I'm above money. I like money sure.

It's funny to me that you think age is a prerequisite for intelligence, LOL. I know plenty of college kids who are smarter than the vast majority of older people. The fact that they are college educated shouldn't be used to put them down. Further, I already negated your argument about why "not giving up their luxuries" is a terrible argument; I guess you forgot that part. If you can't negate it (which you can't, and haven't) then you can keep repeating it but it won't make your point any more true.

Naw. I just trust experience more. I'd trust an average veteran over a genius newbie. 20 year old kids don't have much experience. And you didn't negate anything.

Which one? What were they doing? I know every city is different. Oakland and New York City have been the most prominent; I know nothing about Hawaii. I do know about Chicago and Madison as I have friends there.

Some want Hawaii to be its own country again but the majority complained about unfair corporations while playing on laptops.

That's what this thread is about. You think every black person did the march on Washington? Some niggas had sh*t to do.

Lol, so why are you complaining about the college kids out there? Who else do you think has time for that ish?! Obviously the people who don't have obligations or mouths to feed are going to be the ones making a racket. More power to em.

Then why are you telling me to go out there?

Honestly, I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm trying to show how a lot of the criticisms are unwarranted. I've already acknowledged the ones that have merit -- that OSW lacks a clear goal or something specific that they'd like to accomplish. However aside from that, I think they are being represented very unfairly. It's in my nature to feel compelled to protect and stand up for those I think are being bullied

How am I bullying them? If the OWS can not handle criticism, then it is every bit as weak as my original post.

At 12/7/2011 5:03:06 AM, MarquisX wrote:
-sigh- this is getting boring.

I agree, but your points are just so misguided that it's easy to rip them apart and I can't help myself.

Its still not the same thing. A bus and a motorcycle are both motor vehicles. You can't for 25 people, comfortably on a motorcycle. Again just because they are similar don't make them the exact same.

Analogies don't require things to be exactly the same. I pointed out how the "Life's not fair" is a bullsh!t excuse for accepting injustice. You haven't said anything remotely intelligent to combat that, instead focusing on how racism and classism aren't the same thing (which is irrelevant for the purpose of an analogy - duh), and ignoring the fact that there are actually a ton of connections between racism and classism. I digress.

So that's a fail how? You would command people to give up their own property?

This is way too off topic for me to care about explaining my point (again) to you in so much detail. Long story short, if you agree with this ideal (and I'm not saying it's wrong) then a lot of the CRM was for naught. I also see you're in favor of Affirmative Action, which is completely anti-capitalist.

So i have to meet every single OWS person, in order to have an opinion? Man what the hell is wrong with you? I'm sticking to generalizations. You want to believe all blacks are retarded? Go ahead. Some of them probably are.

Lol, stereotypes are usually true - that's why they're stereotypes. The point is that it would be retarded to assume stereotypes are true for everyone. Even so, your stereotypes of the protesters are largely FALSE anyway, and moreover, the fact remains that their overall gripe is not crazy at all and in fact very important.

What do you want from me? Does criticism not count as help?

Explain how your criticism has helped the movement. I'm all ears. You basically just complained on DDO and I'm pretty sure your complaints have done jack sh!t.

OK. I'm start to think your being annoying on purpose. Check this. I said Mark Zuckerburg was your enemy because he's a billionaire....a 1%er. You said he wasn't. So why is he exempt but I'm not?

And I'm starting to see that you're just nowhere near as intelligent as you think you are. Just because he is part of the 1% (like you are part of the 99%) doesn't mean he IN PARTICULAR is the enemy. The corrupt and broken system is the enemy; the role money plays in politics and the repercussions thereof are the enemy.

"We are the 99%" sounds like they, in fact, are trying to represent me.

First of all, saying "We are the 99%" refers to them (the people there) specifically. If I said, "We are here - We are Queer" would you think by using the word We I was somehow also including you? No. Second of all, even if they say "We are the 99%" and include you, it doesn't mean they are suggesting that you agree with them. It simply shows you are part of the 99% they are referring to as not owning the majority of wealth. Regardless, this is such a stupid point on your part I don't even know why I'm wasting my time.

I know both sides sweetie.

Lol - keep telling yourself that, honey. You're completely ignorant to the going-ons of politics, it seems. I bet if I pointed out some things you'd be like hurr durr durr. Quick question - what caused the financial meltdown in 2008? I'd love to hear your take on it.

The ows here aren't offering tents to the homeless. Which is a huge problem here. And since I'm typing this, its a good thing the deaf can read.

- Yes they are, to an extent.
- This doesn't negate my point whatsoever. Corporations aren't either.

Not that they don't. They WONT. Which is why i can not protest with you. Someone needs to provide for my kid and it won't be you people obviously.

This is such a zzZzz an irrelveant point it's not even funny. You've also ignored me every single time I said corporations won't provide for your kid either, so that's no reason to defend them. In this thread you have criticized OSW but not said one thing against our corrupt system. You're either ignorant to it or too stupid to realize how harmful it is.

Let's do it.

Okay, I'll challenge you.

God that sounds boring.

I'm sorry philosophy and physics bores you. I'm not surprised.

No he doesn't. Jesus Christ. Are you saying that if i don't play sports, my chances to be someone goes away? If we were having this conversation in person, I'd smack the shet out of you. Never have i heard something so idiotic.

No... it's a GENERALIZATION. And you are the one who said going on generalizations is perfectly fine. Look at the fvcking research. I don't have to argue with you because the statistics prove everything for me. The vast majority of people who grow up in the ghetto stay there. Obviously you can survive it, obviously there are success stories but they're few and far between. Everyone knows a lot of people use sports as an escape from it.

Also, it's embarrassing that you would "smack the sh!t" out of a woman or anyone for disagreeing with you on something so frivolous. You sound like a fvcking barbarian. I guess not much has really changed since you left Compton, huh? That's probably where you belong. I'd spit in your face and then smack you right back. They say black men tend to be absent fathers, and for your son's sake I wish that were the case. I don't think little boys should be raised and taught to violently lash out on people because they're too stupid to use their words to make a point and need to resort to their fists instead. Get help.

I mean this entire war over money is beneath me. The system is money. I'm above money. I like money sure.

Okay. Good for you. That's not a criticism of the movement. Next.

Naw. I just trust experience more. I'd trust an average veteran over a genius newbie. 20 year old kids don't have much experience. And you didn't negate anything.

I actually negated everything you said.

Also, nobody's arguing that experience isn't important. However when it comes to discussing something academic then obviously education is important. My great grandmother lived during WWII and tried to tell me that Mussolini (who was on Hitler's side) was a good guy. In her experience this was the case, because he gave food to the poor where she lived in Italy. However if she were educated on what was actually happening, I highly doubt she would have recognized Mussolini as a good guy. Anyway - I've already negated your stupid point about the movement not being justified because "college kids" support it. Yawn.

I also love how you appealed to emotion by saying you'd trust an older VETERAN rather than simply your older average person. This is a cheap tactic to make it seem as if veterans are special or more intelligent/experienced or some ish. Albert Einstein actually has a great quote about people in the military but I'm too lazy to type it up. Blah blah blah.

Some want Hawaii to be its own country again but the majority complained about unfair corporations while playing on laptops.

I never heard anyone from OSW say they wanted Hawaii to be its own country. Nevertheless, a bunch of Texans want Texas to be their own country - particularly the very capitalist ones. So. Obviously there is nothing wrong with wanting secession, even though I don't believe that this is a goal of OSW at all. Further, I've already negated your LOL point about them using laptops like 5 times. Once again, you repeating the same retarded argument doesn't make their point any weaker. Them playing on laptops has absolutely nothing to do with corporate power in politics. DUHHHH.

Then why are you telling me to go there?

Because the things you're saying about the people there are clearly just repeats of what conservative pundits on TV say.

How am I bullying them?

Never said you were.

This is a monumental waste of my time.

I'll challenge you to a debate about free will in a few days (maybe the weekend) when I have more time. As for this thread, it's clear you care more about arguing with me than actually listening to my points. You can keep ranting. It's accomplishing nothing, and clearly you're just incapable of comprehending the points. Have a good day.

I agree, but your points are just so misguided that it's easy to rip them apart and I can't help myself.

Same.

Analogies don't require things to be exactly the same. I pointed out how the "Life's not fair" is a bullsh!t excuse for accepting injustice. You haven't said anything remotely intelligent to combat that, instead focusing on how racism and classism aren't the same thing (which is irrelevant for the purpose of an analogy - duh), and ignoring the fact that there are actually a ton of connections between racism and classism. I digress.

Yep that's my fault. Character limit is making it difficult to address everything. What i meant about "life isn't fair" wasn't about laying down, it was about not being surprised by this. It was not an admission of defeat just realism.

This is way too off topic for me to care about explaining my point (again) to you in so much detail. Long story short, if you agree with this ideal (and I'm not saying it's wrong) then a lot of the CRM was for naught. I also see you're in favor of Affirmative Action, which is completely anti-capitalist.

Dude, when i made this page, i flew through it. I'm pretty sure it says i support abortion as well.

Lol, stereotypes are usually true - that's why they're stereotypes. The point is that it would be retarded to assume stereotypes are true for everyone. Even so, your stereotypes of the protesters are largely FALSE anyway, and moreover, the fact remains that their overall gripe is not crazy at all and in fact very important.

So how do we choose which stereotypes are true? And i never said it wasn't important.

Explain how your criticism has helped the movement. I'm all ears. You basically just complained on DDO and I'm pretty sure your complaints have done jack sh!t.

I complained to my friend Jo in occupy L.A. He might pass it on. Who knows?

And I'm starting to see that you're just nowhere near as intelligent as you think you are. Just because he is part of the 1% (like you are part of the 99%) doesn't mean he IN PARTICULAR is the enemy. The corrupt and broken system is the enemy; the role money plays in politics and the repercussions thereof are the enemy.

Then why make this about people? When you say "We are the 99%" it sounds like you are against the 1%. And I've have heard OWS people specifically complain about the 1% and not a system.

First of all, saying "We are the 99%" refers to them (the people there) specifically. If I said, "We are here - We are Queer" would you think by using the word We I was somehow also including you? No. Second of all, even if they say "We are the 99%" and include you, it doesn't mean they are suggesting that you agree with them. It simply shows you are part of the 99% they are referring to as not owning the majority of wealth. Regardless, this is such a stupid point on your part I don't even know why I'm wasting my time.

It is stupid. But here's my gripe. Do you know what a definite article. Of course you do, it's tenth grade shet. The "the" is the problem. We are queer is just stating that that group of people is queer.

Lol - keep telling yourself that, honey. You're completely ignorant to the going-ons of politics, it seems. I bet if I pointed out some things you'd be like hurr durr durr. Quick question - what caused the financial meltdown in 2008? I'd love to hear your take on it.

Don't have room to say much. Liquidation problems on behalf of the banks, housing bubble bursting. That's all i remember

- Yes they are, to an extent.
- This doesn't negate my point whatsoever. Corporations aren't either.

I never said they were.

This is such a zzZzz an irrelveant point it's not even funny. You've also ignored me every single time I said corporations won't provide for your kid either, so that's no reason to defend them. In this thread you have criticized OSW but not said one thing against our corrupt system. You're either ignorant to it or too stupid to realize how harmful it is.

Where did i defend the corporations? I see what your problem is(later)

Let's do it.

Okay, I'll challenge you.

I'm sorry philosophy and physics bores you. I'm not surprised.

OK.

No... it's a GENERALIZATION. And you are the one who said going on generalizations is perfectly fine. Look at the fvcking research. I don't have to argue with you because the statistics prove everything for me. The vast majority of people who grow up in the ghetto stay there. Obviously you can survive it, obviously there are success stories but they're few and far between. Everyone knows a lot of people use sports as an escape from it.

No there aren't. I still keep in contact with 90% of my graduating class and I'd say 90% are in college. There are opportunities besides sports.

Also, it's embarrassing that you would "smack the sh!t" out of a woman or anyone for disagreeing with you on something so frivolous. You sound like a fvcking barbarian. I guess not much has really changed since you left Compton, huh? That's probably where you belong. I'd spit in your face and then smack you right back. They say black men tend to be absent fathers, and for your son's sake I wish that were the case. I don't think little boys should be raised and taught to violently lash out on people because they're too stupid to use their words to make a point and need to resort to their fists instead. Get help.

First off, obviously i was kidding. Secondly you're getting way too emotional. You wish my kid to grow up fatherless? Seriously what's wrong with you?

Okay. Good for you. That's not a criticism of the movement. Next.

Naw. I just trust experience more. I'd trust an average veteran over a genius newbie. 20 year old kids don't have much experience. And you didn't negate anything.

I actually negated everything you said.

No you didn't. Why should they support the corporations they're angry with?

Also, nobody's arguing that experience isn't important. However when it comes to discussing something academic then obviously education is important. My great grandmother lived during WWII and tried to tell me that Mussolini (who was on Hitler's side) was a good guy. In her experience this was the case, because he gave food to the poor where she lived in Italy. However if she were educated on what was actually happening, I highly doubt she would have recognized Mussolini as a good guy. Anyway - I've already negated your stupid point about the movement not being justified because "college kids" support it. Yawn.

That wasn't my point. I just don't trust them to do this right. And they haven't.

I also love how you appealed to emotion by saying you'd trust an older VETERAN rather than simply your older average person. This is a cheap tactic to make it seem as if veterans are special or more intelligent/experienced or some ish. Albert Einstein actually has a great quote about people in the military but I'm too lazy to type it up. Blah blah blah.

Didn't mean military veteran. God you're such a headache. If they are two people doing a job and one has done it before, I'm going to trust him more. That's my only point. And it doesn't apply to ows.

I never heard anyone from OSW say they wanted Hawaii to be its own country. Nevertheless, a bunch of Texans want Texas to be their own country - particularly the very capitalist ones. So. Obviously there is nothing wrong with wanting secession, even though I don't believe that this is a goal of OSW at all. Further, I've already negated your LOL point about them using laptops like 5 times. Once again, you repeating the same retarded argument doesn't make their point any weaker. Them playing on laptops has absolutely nothing to do with corporate power in politics. DUHHHH.

Never said there was. And no you didn't.

Because the things you're saying about the people there are cle

Summary: The banking system began a 30 year period of deregulation under Reagan. Bankers paid politicians to keep regulators off their back. The result was a financial sector dominated by a few big banks deemed "too big to fail." Laws that formerly held bankers responsible for their investments were repealed, leaving them to take all kinds of wild risks and make bad loans with investors' money.

This bad business model caused them to go bankrupt. The federal government - who remember is comprised of politicians paid/endorsed be these bankers - stepped in and bailed out the banks using taxpayer's money (again). The result is even more debt incurred by the U.S. as well as rewarding a complete failure of a business model. The entire banking system was built on a ponzi scheme and this too was more blatant theft. Politicians no incentive or intention of protecting their constituents, but rather lining their own pockets. They know they can win re-elections by just appealing to wedge issues anyway.

Plus, politicians pay economists to lie and say they are doing the right thing. We know people do this all the time. Example -- Former banker Charles Keating paid Alan Greenspan $40K to say his business model was sound. Meanwhile, Keating's empire completely collapsed on itself, resulting in a cost of $3b to the federal government. Now, you would think Greenspan's credibility as an economist would have been challenged after his failed assessment which was clearly based on bribery. Instead, our wonderful politicians gave him a government position, and appointed him Chairman of the Federal Reserve where he served under 4 presidents, both Republican and Democrat alike.

To quote the movie Waking Life, "What a bunch of garbage! Liberal, Democratic, Conservative, Republican -- it's all there to control you, two sides of the same coin! Two management teams, bidding for control of the CEO job of Slavery Incorporated!"

The ties between Wall St. fat cats and politicians are blatant and innumerable. The conflict of interest and ulterior motives are obvious. We acknowledge politicians are corrupt with apathy, as if it is just something to accept. For better or worse, we have created a system where it is near impossible to get anything accomplished.We fight over the same issues day in and day out. I mean, we've even gotten to the point where politicians run and hide out in other states to avoid voting on things (I'm looking at you, Illinois Democrats).

So! Some people come together and say, "Hey... ya know... this system sucks. The vast majority of us are getting fvcked up the a$s, and we don't like it." They recognize an extremely important problem that essentially makes our government tyrannical. Tea Party and OSW members alike can come together and agree on that much. Now, of course they differ in some of their proposed solutions (though not all -- I bet some leftist anarchists actually have a lot in common with some Libertarians, but I digress). But the point is these people want to come together and draw attention to the issue, alarming the 99% of people that HEY. There is a problem, and the only way we can address this political and economic injustice is if we come together and acknowledge a problem, and demand change.

Now, you've got people against OSW coming up and saying... "But they use lap tops!" as an actual argument against their cause. LOL. Using lap tops has nothing to do with it. When these people complain about corporations, for the most part they are complaining about corporate control (in terms of money) over politicians! They are also protesting the fact that corporations are given the same rights as humans (which makes no logical sense whatsoever) as a way to cheat the system and get away with bad business models that destroy entire economies.

How am I supposed to take the criticism, "But they won't march when it's cold" seriously?! What a dumb a$s argument against their cause. If you want to say their cause is stupid, then sit there and defend the blatant corruption between corporate and political figures. Don't sit there on your high horse whining like little children about how they're lazy and stupid because they have iPhones. They might very well want to engage in the fair exchange of paying money to get corporate goods, but that does NOT mean they necessarily support corporations using their economic power to buy politicians and implement economic policies that are harmful to the entire society.

(Hopefully some people actually read this).

I see what the problem is. But i critized OWS, you take that to mean I'm with the corporations. I don't watch TV, but i have seen people make fun of FOX news on the web. So i got one side saying " YOU GOT A PROBLEM WITH THE 1%? YOURE AGAINST CAPITALISM? THEN YOU'RE AGAINST AMERICA AND YOU'RE AGAINST GOD AND THAT MAKES YOU A TERRIOST" and on the other side i got Danielle going "OMG, WHY ARE YOU SAYING SUCH MEAN THINGS? YOU MUST BE WITH THE CORPORATIONS. WHY ELSE YOU WOULD CRITIQUE SOMETHING UNLESS YOU ABSOLUTELY HATED IT. YOU'RE SO IGNORANT OMG! Honestly you're both waving your metaphorical flags in my face and both shoving propaganda down my throat. Danielle just because i have to make a living doesn't mean I'm with the other side. Just because i have problems with the organization, doesn't mean I'm opposed to it. You keep calling me ignorant because I'm not all " FUCC YEAH FUCC THE CORPORATIONS". Life's not fair. I get that. But I'm not going to jump on your bandwagon when you got flat tires man. I'm going to tell you that you need to get new tires because you aren't going to make it this way. Furthermore you're letting your emotions cloud your judgement. This isn't the first time you went after my kid but if you're going to be an intellectual warrior, and there's nothing wrong with that, at least have honor. As much people as i argue with and i call stupid or something to that degree, I would never under any circumstances go after someones family. Yes i mentioned him first but only as stating that I need to work to provide for him. You hoping that i abandon him? Just made you look stupid. I realize the threat might have frightened you and honestly i meant to put "lol" but i guess i didn't have the space. Regardless I'm sorry. Shouldn't have said it. Don't bother sending that debate request. Personal attacks i can handle but you keep trying to attack my son for some reason. I have lost all respect for you, and truth be told, i really respected you alot.

See above.

Marquis, what do you suggest these people do besides boycotting corporations? Even if people stopped buying iPhones doesn't mean corporations themselves disappear. There are all kinds of corporations. Regardless, corporations aren't necessarily the problem. I think the issue is people are recognizing that under our system, corporations have too much power thanks to their ties to politicians, at the expense of everyone else. There are of course a lot of other criticisms, but the gist of it is people are angry about the obvious ties and corruption. So, what else do you think OWS can do better? What would they have to do to get your support? These are genuine questions.

I think the whole thing is pretty sad.. . it really just sounds like pure jealosy. of course if there is a lot of believers they will say other wise... but honestly.. there is know real demarcation principle..... people follow the rules of a country and make money and then when they get to rich you switch the rules on them to steal there money and say it is some rightious deserve.... it jsut like somebody.. what would you do if all the rich people just got up and left the country.. you would be screwed.. you would probably claim some new rightious rule to stop them arrest them or take thier money..... I am all about spreading the wealth .... but they way you justify it sounds.... very sketchy and dissonest.. but you by being a group you get a group polarization affect. by feeding of each others similar want and beliefs.. then you feel justified... something is a miss.. seems a little too convinient..

At 12/9/2011 7:17:42 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
http://www.cracked.com...

<3 cracked. That article was hilarious. and sad.. and true.