Communism is inevitable?

Karl Marx identified four stages of history. Each was characterized by a different relationship between society's members and the means of production. The economy was the central element. His historical stages in sequence are:

Primitive Communism
Slavery
Fuedalism
Capitalism
Socialism
Utopian State of Communism

Marx's theory is grounded on the concepts of the means of production and alienation. Human beings, individually and collectively, want to be positvely related to the means of production. They want to control their own lives, determine what work they will do, and enjoy the fruits of their own labor. Whenever they are not in control of the means of production, alienation sets in; people are forced to work for someone else against their will , are uninterested in the work being done, or both. Alienation is intolerable. It is antithetical to what Marx called human "species being" or, in more conventional terms, to human nature. So, even though it may (and has) take centuries, people set about the long series of stages that will be necessary to go through before alienation is eliminated for everyone in a communist utopia. Thus, alienation is the driving wheel of history and social change.

Marx's theory is attractive. He clearly recognized the inequalities of society and saw them as woven into the very fabric of social life. He understood that in most societies the few control the many. He argued, quite convincingly, that people wont ever be happy until they are out from under the domination of others. I think most people would agree with these observations.

Is his theory of social change correct?
Is the United States in the beginning stages of the transition to socialism?

Haha, you said beginning. >.>

At 11/1/2009 12:39:12 AM, 1-2-3 wrote:
Karl Marx identified four stages of history. Each was characterized by a different relationship between society's members and the means of production. The economy was the central element. His historical stages in sequence are:

Primitive Communism
Slavery
Fuedalism
Capitalism
Socialism
Utopian State of Communism

Russia failed at stage 4. China is going from Socialism to Capitalism :). So, um, fail.

Marx's theory is grounded on the concepts of the means of production and alienation. Human beings, individually and collectively, want to be positvely related to the means of production. They want to control their own lives, determine what work they will do, and enjoy the fruits of their own labor. Whenever they are not in control of the means of production, alienation sets in; people are forced to work for someone else against their will , are uninterested in the work being done, or both. Alienation is intolerable. It is antithetical to what Marx called human "species being" or, in more conventional terms, to human nature. So, even though it may (and has) take centuries, people set about the long series of stages that will be necessary to go through before alienation is eliminated for everyone in a communist utopia. Thus, alienation is the driving wheel of history and social change.

1) I choose to work for someone. It's not against my will. Unless I'm taken kicking and screaming into a job it's not against my will. This theory that capitalism is slavery is just idiotic. You can work or you can starve. But at least you have the choice. Or, there's an alternative which Communism doesn't offer, setting up your own business.

2) The attempt for workers to control the economy under communism has always failed and resulted in dictatorships. Besides, workers work, not decide what they will produce. And if the workers want something from farmers, and the farmers want to make something else, what then?

3) Collectivisation of farms is fail. No farmer is going to have their land taken away from them and still work it to produce food for others.

Marx's theory is attractive. He clearly recognized the inequalities of society and saw them as woven into the very fabric of social life. He understood that in most societies the few control the many. He argued, quite convincingly, that people wont ever be happy until they are out from under the domination of others. I think most people would agree with these observations.

Attractive, but impractical. Doctors are a higher skilled profession than a driver, yet you want to pay both the exact same. This never works out.

Is his theory of social change correct?

No.

Is the United States in the beginning stages of the transition to socialism?

No.

What I always find amusing is that people so vehemently attack and oppose communism for its flaws, but never hold capitalism responsible for its flaws (most deny that capitalism even has flaws). Personally I don't think that any system could ever really be "fair" in every regard, and as such, capitalism is by far the best choice because it promotes progression and values work, whereas communism inhibits society and provides no incentives for achievement and success. Plus, communism is definitely less fair. It's also stifling and never seems to be able to work for too long. Even though I think that Mar'x theories on dialecticsand especially historical materialism are interesting, his ideology is still inferior to pure capitalism.

Capitalism=greed. George Orwell would have had another classic making fun of our government.

At 11/1/2009 5:32:29 PM, twsurber wrote:
Capitalism=greed. George Orwell would have had another classic making fun of our government.

I wouldn't call the subject of Orwell's works "making fun." That sounds like the wrong phrase.

And greed= the motive for producing much of the hardware and software responsible for you being able to have this discussion.

At 11/1/2009 6:19:45 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
And greed= the motive for producing much of the hardware and software responsible for you being able to have this discussion.

Sigged.

I think that because society inevitably becomes more liberal, a move towards socialism is inevitable. I don't know where or when we'll draw a line, but I doubt that hardcore communism will ever exist.

At 11/1/2009 5:32:29 PM, twsurber wrote:
Capitalism=greed. George Orwell would have had another classic making fun of our government.

Greed is a great thing when there is no coercion behind it.