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Are church and state truly separate from each other?

  • They are indeed separate

    The First Amendment to the United States Constitution provides that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. However, the Court has not always interpreted the constitutional principle as absolute, and the proper extent of separation between government and religion in the U.S. Remains an ongoing subject of impassioned debate.

  • Yes! They are totally different!

    There are countless reasons why church and state are different from each other but the main reason is that we shouldn't have a church telling the government what to do. Also our founding fathers never once mention any religion in the Constitution! That's why the 13 colonies were made! So that people could be free and believe in what they wanted to believe.

  • Yes they are.

    Thomas Jefferson: "Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." -- "In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty." -- "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State." -- So yes. There is a separation between Church and State. It's in the 1st Amendment. There's a difference, by the way, between Church and Religion. Of course freedom of religion is in the 1st amendment! You are free to believe in whichever religion you like … but no one religion or religious doctrine is or may constitutionally be in any way integrated into the Constitution, American government and the legal system, for political use of Religion becomes Church. The term "separation of Church and State" was not coined by some modern atheist who didn't know what s/he was talking about. It was coined by Jefferson, a founding father who believed firmly in its existence and integrated it distinctly into the Constitution. The 1796 Treaty with Tripoli states that the United States was "not in any sense founded on the Christian religion". It's exactly the opposite of unconstitutional. It is the essence of our Constitution and an enormously important element of the equal rights system. Just look at American churches in America's history. The majority of Conservative Christians didn't want African Americans to have rights. Then they didn't want the Japanese to have rights. Now they don't want homosexuals to have rights. The separation protects these rights from being violated by subjected opinion. So, thank you Founding Fathers for the Constitution.

  • What do the Founding Fathers have to say?

    Thomas Jefferson: "Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." -- "In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty." -- "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State." -- So yes. There is a separation between Church and State. It's in the 1st Amendment. There's a difference, by the way, between Church and Religion. Of course freedom of religion is in the 1st amendment! You are free to believe in whichever religion you like … but no one religion or religious doctrine is or may constitutionally be in any way integrated into the Constitution, American government and the legal system, for political use of Religion becomes Church. The term "separation of Church and State" was not coined by some modern atheist who didn't know what s/he was talking about. It was coined by Jefferson, a founding father who believed firmly in its existence and integrated it distinctly into the Constitution. The 1796 Treaty with Tripoli states that the United States was "not in any sense founded on the Christian religion". -- Benjamin Franklin: ""The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." -- "Lighthouses are more helpful than churches." -- "When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself so that its professors are obliged to call for the help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one." -- James Madison: "The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries." -- "Ecclesiastical establishments tend to great ignorance and corruption." -- John Adams: "I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved-- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!" -- "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it." -- I'll leave you thinking on that opinion. Please, please stop claiming America was founded without the intention of separating Church and State, or that the Founding Fathers intended for them to be combined, or that separation of Church and State is unconstitutional. It's exactly the opposite of unconstitutional. It is the essence of our Constitution and an enormously important element of the equal rights system. Just look at American churches in America's history. The majority of Conservative Christians didn't want African Americans to have rights. Then they didn't want the Japanese to have rights. Now they don't want homosexuals to have rights. The separation protects these rights from being violated by subjected opinion. So, thank you Founding Fathers for the Constitution.

  • Church and State does not mean religion and politics

    Separation of church and state originally meant the non-establishment of a religion and non-interference of the state in church affairs. It later came to also mean that the different churches should never have power over the decisions of state. It never meant and cannot come to mean while we still value freedom of religion and conscience, that a man's religious convictions should not affect his political actions.

  • Yes, I believe church and state are separate because the church does not cause policy and the state does not run the church.

    Churches are not able to create any laws that govern all people. In all honesty though, the separation of church and state was meant to protect the church. It is most evident, then, that church and state are separated because the government cannot run the church. The church has the right to it's beliefs and practices which do not change as the leadership of our nation changes. No one converted to Catholicism because Kennedy was in office, and no one becomes an atheist because of who might be in office. Everyone is entitled to their faith and traditions.

    Posted by: DizzyCasey
  • NO! Live United.

    The church and state should stay together, because this nation needs to stay united. If they stay together the world will potentially become a better place, making the state better for the future generations. God did'nt create the world for us people to seperate. Stay connected! Live United! For it is the right way to go.

  • Religion still controls

    One of the main examples is the argument to "defend" marriage. While marriage is a religious term, originally, and therefore can be controlled by the religious community, the state recognizes marriage in the legal system, and those who can't get married but still have a partner can receive a civil union (which is not comparable because it lacks a lot of the benefits that "married" couples receive in the legal system). If church and state were separate, truly, this would not be a debate at all.

  • Tomas Jefferson said:

    “Religious institutions that use government power in support of themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths, or of no faith, undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of an established religion tends to make the clergy unresponsive to their own people, and leads to corruption within religion itself. Erecting the 'wall of separation between church and state,' therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.”

  • They should be but they are not

    If they were separate there would be Civil Unions, issued by the govt. to determine couples status and "marriage" would be a strictly religious ceremony/service/sacrament that some people would want in addition to the civil service.

    If it were truly separate the church would not be able to hi-jack health care reform over mandated insurance coverage for birth control.

  • Swear over bible?

    This establishes an official religion despite the 'freedom' we are allowed. A bible should not even be provided in the courtroom, it sets the precedent that americans are christians! People may bring their own forms or nothing, but it absolutely should not be initially offered as a first form of sanctity.

  • the church IS the state

    Study Latin please. The word "state" is derived from a Latin word for a stage, as in a stage for actors. The Latin word is 'pulpitum'. Despite appearing secular and atheist, politicians, lawyers and judges are religious fanatics, hence the legal systems of fines and penalties. They are all of them actors, none of them have authority over the lives of others, authority comes from the written word and we are each of us writing the story of our lives, therefore all authority rests with each human individually, not by some assumed authority or group of pirates. Yeshua advised the apostles when they asked, 'how will we know these people?' - he returned "you shall know them by their acts" - Even the legal system in the united states is based on a revised version of the common law stemming from England and their parliamentary form issues 'acts' which are separate from the common law and that system is a revised version of the civillis romanus, the old Roman law code. In ancient Rome, the law was a religious matter. The title of pontifex max is reserved for the high priest, it was with Gaius Julius Caesar that the titled was merged with the 'first man of Rome', whom coined money and gave laws as a dictator. The word 'priest' when broken up into the two Latin words of 'pri' meaning first and 'est' meaning here. Now look at the court system. The judge rules from the 'bench' a Latin derived Italian word, 'banco', in ancient Venice, the money-lenders and usurers sat on a bench in the market, if they became shady and were found to have lent out more slips (see fiat money) than they had gold to cover the slips, the mob would break the lender's bench, he was thereafter 'bankrupt'. So the 'judge' in a statutory court cannot hope to make an unbiased judgement, there are there to apply penaltly for a transfer of property, they rule from the bank, therefore they always will rule in favour of the bank, as in Vegas, the house always wins, a clear conflict of interest, at best, a matter of recusal, at worst, common-law fraud and treason. The Latin word 'attorn' means 'to transfer property' so an 'attorney' is merely an agent involved in the transfer of property. Now look at what the judge wears in court; black robe. Look at the typical vestement of a catholic priest; black robe. It is the papal casear on his pulpit that is charging us all rent for our lives and we all pay this rent.It is all in the language, right in front of you, hidden in plain sight. Telling people the church and state have been separated is just an illusion that then generates a delusion, we suffer from generational amnesia, it is the same as telling slaves they are free; they are free only to be enslaved by a new system, using plantation dollars, we live in it now. Peace

  • same sex marriage

    Same sex marriage is only an issue in the united states because the bible states that it is inhumane ans unnatural, having two people be happy with each other would make this country stronger, and better, but ignorance runs this country as well. The united states was built on religion, it was founded by people who were raised to be believe that pleasing a most vengeful God is crucial. A new era has to emerge and say that there is nothing wrong for two people to get married and spend the rest of eternity happy together..But the only reason that isnt happening is because the church still has a strong grip on the government ans our laws.

  • YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME?.......

    There is no way that anyone could ever think, ever even DREAM that church and state are separate from each other in this country. They are so unjustly involved with each other it is disgusting. Show me a ballot anywhere that has a candidate without listing a religion? Show me a school that doesn't try and force all children through school to say the pledge of allegiance to the flag with the word God in it?

    The link below is a perfect example of the ridiculous intertwining of church and state. It's a SCIENCE quiz for 4th grade and asks, "Whom should we always trust?" Answer was: God "What is the History Book of the Universe?" Answer was: Bible....... THIS IS COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS, DISGUSTING AND UNACCEPTABLE. Yet our country still takes money away from education........

    Http://www.Snopes.Com/photos/signs/sciencetest.Asp

  • Freedom is my mindset.

    I see gross violation of the State/Church separation clause in Latvia in that the state-owned medium Latvian Radio One is broadcasting min. 1.5 hrs of religious propaganda every Sunday, and, pending our correspondence debate currently on the issue at hand, I am taking them to Constitutional court on this shortly.

  • No

    People will not be voted for JUST for being atheist, even if the person is more than qualified for the government job. But, this question is confusing in general. I'm taking it as "are church and state truly separate NOW". No, they are not truly separate now, but they NEED to be. Religion is personal, and has absolutely no authority to rule over the general public. There are many Americans of different religious beliefs, and that is completely fine, but it causes problems when church and state are not separate


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