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  • Really We Don't Know....

    I think that some aren't some are. In every religion, there are bad people, but I think there is more good than bad in Christians today. They do help people, and many charities are Christian/started by Christians. MayorCheeseburger says it is republican parties, but your political views surely do not make you un-Christlike unless you believe in murder.

  • Yes they do

    Hello, i believe we do. I am a christian. There is no certain way we are supposed to act. We just need to have faith. And believe in god. Yes, we have to do good things, but dont we all? We dont have certain expectations. So that is what i think. All we have to do is belive in god and do the right things. But we all mess up, sometimes. Its because were human, we will never be perfect.

  • No, ever seen the Republicans?

    Now, this is admittedly a generalization, but most of today's Christian's are not Christ-like. Jesus preached in forgiveness, not the electric chair. He healed the sick, he preached what today we would call socialism, and was an advocate for the poor. Jesus spoke about turning the other cheek, not invading middle eastern countries because of "terrorist run governments".

    Matthew 19:24 -- And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

    Matthew 19:21 -- Jesus said to him, 'If thou dost will to be perfect, go away, sell what thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven, and come, follow me.'

    Luke 12:33-34 -- Sell what ye have, and give alms: provide yourselves bags, which become not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

    Just look at the Vatican or any church for that matter, why would someone need such extravagance to worship? Why would you need a building dedicated to your god, isn't just devoting your life enough? Although I do think that conservatives give much more of their income to charity, how do you reconcile the republican parties seemingly endless blood lust with Jesus's views on how we should forgive each other.

  • No todays Christians are not Christlike

    Unfortunately most "Christians" are not Christlike because they are not true Christians to begin with. Too many people (including myself) have spent years in church but never had a true conversion. We were duped into thinking all we had to do was say a prayer and we were saved. This is so wrong. We must first have realization of the holiness of God and the debts of our own depravity. This leads to repentance and a true conversion. Only then will the Holy Spirit begin to conform us to the image of Christ and this will take a lifetime.

  • Jesus was sinless, we never will be.

    As a Christian, I can say that I am not Christ-like at all. Christ was, according to our religion, a perfect and sinless man, and humans can never be this way. Christians look at the New Testament, and peoples account of Jesus and what he did, and also how his followers tried to be like him/encourage people to be like him after his death, to see what Jesus was like as a man, and they try to live by similar values and adopt similar characteristics (loving, generous etc). However they will never be completely Christ-like, as they can never be sinless

  • In general, absolutely not

    Not based on the descriptions of Christ I've ever heard. Many Christians hypocritically so participate in greed and corruption, ignore the needy, look out for self-interest and hold political or personal grudges. Not the signs of forgiveness that Jesus allegedly portrayed in the Bible. In fact, most Christians in my experience can only reference a few passages that they feel are relevant to them.

  • It's impossible to be like him

    There are good men. Jesus was a great man. Wherever he went, he preached love and peace. Today, the whole world has to fight to live on another day. No one could be so pure in spirit as he was. Even if you believe him to be complete bunk, he's a good person to aspire to. But we can never be like him. But, that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

    Posted by: O.Z
  • No they're not.

    A lot of Christians of today are quite hypocritical,and do not respect other peoples beliefs.A lot of them try to impose their religion on others.The whole ''love thy neighbor'' does not apply to a lot of them,as,some believe that so called ''sinners'',who in reality are simply fulfilling basic human desires (e.G masturbation,sex before marriage,etc..),are going to hell.

  • No; we try to be, but we aren't

    It's almost impossible to be completely Christ-like, even if we try. We still have hate and greed in our lives no matter how "good" we try to be. But when it boils down to it, that's what being a Christian is; accepting that we are not perfect and need Christ to save us and make us holy.


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BrandonButterworth says2013-06-04T05:32:03.573
Ever seen the Democrats?

When people who support gay marriage and abortion are the same people who are claiming to be Christian, you know America is out to lunch.

Not that you couldn't tell by the the election.
MayorCheeseburger says2013-06-04T10:07:49.150
The bible doesn't say abortion is wrong and as for homosexuality it's mostly that a buch of bigots read through certain parts of the bible and decided to use those as talking points. Anyway Democrats in general are less religious.
BrandonButterworth says2013-06-05T01:37:03.727
Lol bud, if you think I'm a bigot for disagreeing with you about homosexuality, then you aboviously don't know the definition of the word.
And besides, the bible is the book that holds the beliefs that Christians believe in. Homosexuality is condemned in the bible, so why then do I see "Christians" supporting it?

Referring to abortion, that can call under the fifth comandment. You're killing an innocent life, it doesn't take a christian to see the evil behind that.
MayorCheeseburger says2013-06-05T02:06:24.850
The Bible codones slavery, so I assume you think that's ok too? The bible says if your neighbor works on Sunday you should kill him and the same if a child talks to back to you, is that ok? Time's change and slowly the bible's social views are being phased out and sorry about the bigot thing, its true it is relative. "Doesn't take a christian"? Here is the abortionist logic, a fertilized egg has human DNA so it is human. However a sperm and an egg are human by that same definition due to the fact they have human DNA, which would make young teens and god the biggest abortionists of them all.
MayorCheeseburger says2013-06-05T02:07:03.617
*Teens=Teen boys
Bullish says2013-06-06T02:37:19.910
Ironically, Jesus never read the Bible.
MayorCheeseburger says2013-06-06T02:51:24.430
How could he, he never existed
BrandonButterworth says2013-06-07T01:05:07.877
"The bible condones slavery". And what kind of slavery is that? Racial? No. It states that if you owe someone who you cannot repay, work it off. Not that I'd expect you to know this. You're an atheist and therefore probably not to inclined to study the bible.

I'd love to see you cite where the bible states that you should kill the person who works on Sunday and where it says to kill a child who talks back to you to. I don't know where you got that from, but I suggest you check your sources.

Life begins at conception. What's the difference between sperm and a fertilized egg? In nine months that fertilized egg will be a baby. In nine months that sperm will be, well, still sperm. Get it?

Do you actually know what goes on during an abortion? They take each limb of the unborn baby, and rip it off. They crush the chest cavity, and decapitate it. This is what you're supporting. This is what you're defending.
Http://www.Priestsforlife.Org/Mobile/
MayorCheeseburger says2013-06-07T01:46:41.427
Brandon, when did I even mention race? The bible talks about and codones sexual slavery, not just debt slavery. Sadly I have probably read the bible dozens of times more than you, having been raised as a strict Catholic with multiple priests in my family, unlike you I realized that the Church and Bible were corrupted by people and that god is probably not omniscient, omnipresent, etc... If he even exists. Today's "Christians" have never read the bible in its entirety.
Here are some nice qoutes from the bible
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. Deuteronomy 17:12
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. Exodus 21:15
All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. Leviticus 20:9
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. Isaiah 14:21
I did say sunday, but I meant sabbath, that was my bad.
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' Exodus 31:12-15

For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' Numbers 1:48-51
Obviously most of the qoutes of the bible aren't this outdated, horrifying, and attrocious, but these are the laws set forth in the bible. Why aren't we following these?
Explain to me what changes at conception? Sperm cells are alive. Egg cells are alive. When you combine the two, the result is still alive life doesn't begin at conception, it continues at conception. The fetus will not have any sensation until the third trimester, and abortions are almost never done that late with some rare exceptions, all of them medical, so no matter how gruesome, it doesn't change a thing.
You assume alot of things about my statements and me based on your biases, explains alot...
BrandonButterworth says2013-06-07T07:00:39.537
I've looked up a those verses you gave me. In your reaction to them you call them "horrifying" and "atrocious". But these laws were not imposed upon the Israelites. They were accepted by them.
Nehemiah 10:29-30 "The rest of the people, priests, Levites, gatekeepers, singers, temple slaves, and all others who have separated themselves from the peoples of the lands in favor of the law of God, with their wives, their sons, their daughters, all who are of the age of discretion, join with their brethren who are their princes, and with the sanction of a curse take this oath to follow the law of God, which was given through Moses, the servant of God, and to observe carefully all the commandments of The Lord, our Lord, his ordinances and his statutes." Hardly unjust. Especially when you sign a document (Nehemiah 10:1-28) stating that you agree with the Lords proposal.

Referring to "sexual slavery". I'm going to have to ask you to quote that. As I am once again unfamiliar with any such verse.

And now back to abortion.
I think I explained pretty well what the differences between sperm cells and a fertilized egg were. In nine months you'll be changing that eggs diaper. In nine months that sperm will still be sperm. Not a hard concept really...
MayorCheeseburger says2013-06-07T07:35:54.270
Sexual slavery as in selling your daughter to a man for marriage.

And if a man sells his daughter to be a female slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money. Exodus 21:7-11

I said atrocious and horrifying relative to today. If you questioned your priest today, would being killed be an appropriate response? I quoted this to show you how we have evolved over the last 2000 years when selling your daughter was ok, and killing people over Sabbath was acceptable. To read the bible and apply the laws and views in it today, while some are reasonable, most are outdated as they were SPECIFICALLY written to guide life as it happened in the bible times. To the Israelites these laws may have been more than fair and would have been the cultural norm.

Ok, I'm going to take a different approach. What makes a person? Cells? Or a personality, human qualities, traits, etc...? Is DNA enough to call a fetus a human?
BrandonButterworth says2013-06-07T20:40:16.700
The Israelites thought they were justifiable, and since you weren't living back then, who are you to say they're not? You're biased because of the era you live in. Therefore, calling something "horrifying" based on what you think society should be is illogical.

Your questions about abortion are meant to trap me. After all, even a cell from my fingernail has human DNA in it. But does that same cell have the potential to become a human as a fertilized egg does? Of course not. It's like trying to claim a chicken egg and a chicken feather are the same thing. The fact of the matter is, you are ending the fetuses potential to become just like you and me. Just as you are ending the chickens growth and development when you squash the egg. I'm going to leave you with a question as you did to me. If the fetus you are ripping apart isn't really human, than why does the HUMAN population go down with higher abortion rates?

Http://www.Forbes.Com/sites/markadomanis/2013/02/09/are-there-really-13-abortions-for-every-10-live-births-in-russia/
"Abortion is rampant, with 13 abortions performed for every 10 live births. Consider that for a moment: Russians are so despondent about the future that they have 30 percent more abortions than births. This might be the most grisly statistic the world has ever seen. It suggests a society that no longer has the will to live.”

http://mobile.Slate.Com/articles/business/moneybox/2006/05/children_for_sale.Html?Original_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.Google.Com%2Fsearch%3Fsite%3D%26source%3Dhp%26ei%3DOEOyUYnzHeHa0QHe14GgCg%26q%3Drussia%2Bpaying%2Bwomen%2Bto%2Bhave%2Bchildren%26oq%3Drussia%2Bpaying%2Bwomen%26gs_l%3Dmobile-gws-hp.1.0.0.7013.11760.0.13366.20.15.0.1.1.0.799.3514.2j8j1j1j1j1j1.15.0...0.0...1c.1.16.Mobile-gws-hp.W9IC3WqzOa0
"In May, Vladimir Putin, alarmed at Russia's declining population, which is falling thanks to short life expectancy and a plummeting birthrate (1.17 children per woman, down from about 2 in 1990), offered a bonus of 250,000 rubles (about $9,200) to women who would have a second child." (You know what's really been annoying me? The fact that this section won't put my comment in paragraph form.)
MayorCheeseburger says2013-06-07T21:18:22.520
You seem to not be able to understand what I wrote, because you literally wrote back what I wrote, made the same point, and then some how turned it around to attack me. I said "To read the bible and apply the laws and views in it today, while some are reasonable, most are outdated as they were SPECIFICALLY written to guide life as it happened in the bible times. To the Israelites these laws may have been more than fair and would have been the cultural norm. " To help you understand I'm going to use little words, when the bible was written, these laws were ok, but today they violate most concepts of liberty and freedom we hold dear. Of course I'm "biased" because society has changed, for example we don't live in tribes, have kings, sell daughters, have slaves, murder non-believers (well, the state doesn't), minorities and women have rights, if we were to use the laws in the bible today, all of them, would people accept them or be horrified because of how outdated and barbaric they are? That is the point I was trying to make, and why should we apply something that was acceptable two thousand years ago if most it is invalid, even if it's just parts? Why should a two thousand year old book justify denying gay people their rights, when I could just as easily use it to justify killing a worshiper at my uncle's church or selling my daughter? If you still don't understand, well I probably can't help you.

First, IKR, how stupid is that the thing won't come out the way it shows up in the comment box.

Second,the fact your using Russia is a little biased, because Russia has been on the decline since the fall of communism. The heroin addiction rate is the highest in the world, with some border towns having more than half their town's folk addicted to heroin. A lot of people are dieing young in Russian due to high rates of STDs, ODs, Heart attacks, rather than the high amount of abortions. Http://upload.Wikimedia.Org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Population_of_Russia.PNG
http://en.Wikipedia.Org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia
There's a graph on this page and even when abortions are going down, the population is still falling and we see a time where there are a HUGE amount of abortions and yet the population is still increasing. Look at the graph, it either shows no correlation or a negative correlation with your argument.
You still haven't answered my question about what is human to you
BrandonButterworth says2013-06-07T22:44:21.677
You don't seem to see what I was getting at. You wrote "I said atrocious and horrifying as relative today. If you questioned your priest today, would being killed be an appropriate response?" I was simply trying to stress that you can't to that. You can't call them "horrifying as relative today". Why are they still "horrifying" when you yourself admit that we cannot judge the laws of yesterday when coming from today's society? By calling them horrifying you're judging them! Can you say "inconsistent"? Now referring to homosexuality. If a big group of scientists got together one day and created a pill which symptoms included: an increased risk of contracting STDs, an increased risk of suicide, an increased risk of becoming an alcoholic, and an increase risk of drug abuse, would you recommend that pill to someone? We need to help the homosexuals get out of their sexual perversion, not condone them in it. And if you do the latter, all you're doing is condemning them to a life of misery. And now back to abortion. You may not have read all of the quote I gave you (not that I'd blame you, from a distance it all looks like a massive wall of text with this stupid format) but it said "(1.17 children per woman, down from about 2 in 1990)" It's their birthdate that is dropping. And doesn't it make sense? If you're aborting your child before its birth, that's one less birth to add to the birthrate. Hopefully that gives you a new perspective when you compare this with my other quote ""Abortion is rampant, with 13 abortions performed for every 10 live births." Now just imagine how that affects the birthrate when you have more terminated pregnancies than you have births. And now finally: what is human to me? I'll start be apologizing for initially avoiding this question. I'm not sure how to answer it. I'm no scientist, (in fact I haven't even graduated high school yet) but I would say human DNA. But not just any DNA, this DNA has to be original, there can be no other that is exactly the same. But not only that, but this DNA must also have the potential to expand into a fully fledged adult human being. Baring, of course, abnormalities.( A human without an arm is still a human.) Anyway, I suppose I should rephrase my earlier question. If the fetus you are ripping apart really isn't human, than why is it that when there is a higher abortion rate, there is a smaller HUMAN birthrate?
MayorCheeseburger says2013-06-07T23:23:32.063
Brandon, your taking parts of the bible, the lying with men phrase and applying them to modern life. When I try to show you how outdated the bible is, your go off on a tangent that makes no sense. Why can't we judge the laws of yesterday? Think about all the laws we've had in the past, and why we shouldn't be able to say, wow that was unjust, immoral, stupid, etc? We have to learn from our mistakes and be fair to ALL, not just the people you feel are ok. Do you know what causes suicide, alcoholism, drug abuse? Constant abuse and rejection by society, because you aren't "normal". All minorities and disenfranchised groups have higher rates of suicide, alcoholism, drug abuse, and STD. Before you said you weren't a bigot, but what If I said the same stupid scientist thing you did and put black instead, wouldn't I be a bigot? Again, did you look at the graph about abortions in Russia? It more or less counters your silly claim. Look I'm sorry but your arguement is that a human being is just cells, and I simply don't consider a bunch of human cells to be human. That zygote is as alive and human as a skin graph, sperm, or bacteria with human DNA. All of the things I just noted can also become a human being if some tampering is done, but it is possible, so is destroying those things acceptable?
BrandonButterworth says2013-06-08T01:00:41.527
"When I try to show you how outdated the bible is, your go off on a tangent that makes no sense" I thought I showed pretty clear how you were the one who was contradicting yourself in my last statement. In fact you're STILL contradicting yourself. "Think about all the laws we've had in the past, and why we shouldn't be able to say, wow that was unjust, immoral, stupid, etc?" Yet you were the one who said that I was only repeating your own argument when I said "Therefore, calling something "horrifying" based on what you think society should be is illogical." Please explain to me how this isn't a contradiction.

"Brandon, your taking parts of the bible, the lying with men phrase and applying them to modern life. " Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize that I quoted the bible in my initial statement about homosexuality (Hint: I didn't) Comparing homosexuals to blacks? Apples and oranges. If we compare their suicide rates, oh wait, they're not even comparable. Whites are twice as likely to commit suicide than African Americans. "All minorities and disenfranchised groups have higher rates of suicide" Says who? You? Because this statement clearly isn't based on any sort of factual information. Now lets view homosexual suicide rates. "Attempts by gay and lesbian youth account for up to 30% of all completed suicides. "We're talking about 2.8% of the population making up 30% of all completed suicide attempts. Homosexuals and blacks are incomparable. And how about STDs? I guess you've never heard of "gay bowel syndrome". Or the hundreds of new strands of AIDs that is ONLY a result of homosexual sex. As for alcoholism and drug abuse, you can go ahead and prove those to me.
Http://www.Fiercegoodbye.Com/?S=2
http://www.Suicidology.Org/c/document_library/get_file?FolderId=232&name=DLFE-241.Pdf

Back to abortion. I've explained to you over and over agin the difference between sperm and a fertilized egg. Are you being thick on purpose? And I never called human life "just cells". What a straw man!
By the way you're link doesn't work, just like all of mine don't work. And considering you said it shows population and abortion rate instead of birthrate and abortion rate, I doubt it refutes anything anyway. Because let's be honest, a population can still grow without a sustainable birthrate as long as they have immigration. But I get it, you don't want to admit that abortion rate has any sort of correlation to human birthrate. I guess logic is just thrown out the window here. Just know this, you won't ever be able to refute it; and to deny it, is to deny the truth about abortion.
MayorCheeseburger says2013-06-08T01:48:21.047
Http://www.Youtube.Com/watch?V=abeeY_95jkA Haha, the Irony. On a more serious note, I'm reading the first part of your paragraph and can't make heads or tail of it. The suicide thing is suprising, but from reading the study their are some flaws. They are studying ethnic COMMUNITIES, not people who are mixed into the general population and are isolated like gay people. If you don't get the difference just ask (Im not trying to sound rude). Http://www.Huffingtonpost.Com/jeffrey-fishberger-md/gay-suicide_b_851107.Html This link shows a general correlation between attitude about homosexuality and gay suicides. "Dr. Hatzenbuehler's research serves to highlight what we have seen for more than a decade: Non-accepting community, school and familial environments are associated with an elevated risk for suicide attempts among LGBTQ youth. Examining counties across Oregon, he finds that youth living in environments with less support for lesbian and gay people are 20 percent more likely to attempt suicide than those youth living in areas with support." If anything your hatred is responsible for the suicide rates among gay people, not being gay itself. Http://www.Narth.Com/docs/symptoms.Html "The researchers found that homosexual males and females both tended to score higher on scales of psychological distress than did their heterosexual counterparts. Further, they were found to be more likely to have used recreational drugs and to have inflicted deliberate harm upon themselves. Gays of both genders were also found to have consulted mental health professionals more frequently than the straight participants.

Additionally, the researchers found that the lesbian participants were the most frequent victims of physical intimidation and violence. Lesbians were also found to be "more likely than heterosexual women to drink excessively." All I'm seeing is a correlation between abuse and suicide drugs and alcohol. Haha Gay Bowel Syndrome, the "Researcher" ( Paul Cameron) who came up with this is so biased that he makes the pope seem like Liberace and although your "Hundred's of strains of HIV" is technically correct, the same could be said about herpes, chlamydia or anyother STD. Viruses and bacteria produce rapidly and make many mistakes, so this leads to many mutations which spread leaving to hundreds of strains. Atleast you can admit that personhood doesn't start at conception, and without personhood the fertilized is nothing more than DNA. The zygote is no more human my skin, in spite of the fact that it is closer to being a complete person , dna it only makes up part of a human being. Person hood at conception is a religious belief, not a provable biological fact. Personhood is what makes us different from animals, and unless you can give a reason other than "Its going to be a person eventually", I simply don't buy your stance.
BrandonButterworth says2013-06-08T03:02:23.870
Well geez man just forget about the first part of my paragraph then lol. "If anything your hatred is responsible for the suicide rates among gay people, not being gay itself. "Really? Based on the fact that i haven't seen any minorities with this same insane suicide rate I'd have to disagree. But anyway, what hatred am i expressing here? You're just assuming that I hate the homosexuals. I have a family member who is gay. I don't hate him but the perversion and what it has done to him. I want to help the homosexuals get away from their sexual perversion, you want to condone them in it. And with all these terrible side effects (the STDs, alcohol, drugs, suicides) who's the bigger monster here? Homosexuality used to be treated with therapy before the 1970s when political pressure forced them to take it off their disorder list. That's where the saying "fathers hug your sons, or another man will" comes from. And maybe you miss understood my argument. I agree with you on the fact that the high rate of suicide in homosexuals is partially due to the result of bullying. But thats clearly not the only factor here. Because if it was we'd see the same high suicide rate among minorities. On top of that I also think you miss understood when I said, "As for alcoholism and drug abuse, you can go ahead and prove those to me." I meant that I wanted you to prove to me that minorities all have similar alcohol and drug abuse to homosexuals. What I didn't mean was that I wanted you to prove that homosexuals have alcohol and drug abuse. I already knew that, which is why I stated it with the "bunch of scientists" metaphor. What's up with taking shots at the pope? You did it to God earlier. I mean, I'm not taking shots at Barack Obama or Richard Dawkins over here. Come on man. That's bush league.

"The zygote is no more human my skin, in spite of the fact that it is closer to being a complete person " but that's the difference between the chicken feather and the chicken egg. To say that a feather and an egg are the same is ridiculous. Once again I must reiterate, if it isn't a human you are killing, than why do we see a drop in human birthrate in areas with higher abortion rate? This is only logical. But I guess I should ask you, when do you believe life begins?