I believe that the people of the area are very different from the Spanish, Portuguese, or even French people, and that they should have a voice in European, and even world politics as their own, sovereign, Catalan state. Secondly, these determined and rightful nationalistshave been protesting, demonstrating, and fighting for their independence for many years. With pro-independence movements starting as far back as the 1920's, and with, failed, movements dating all the way to the 1640's, after the Reaper's War.
Yes it is yes it is yes it is yes it is
Catalonia deserve to get this independence
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They ARE Catalans and they should be able to decide on their own present and future, just like mature nations do, and just like they did in the past. Catalonia beautiful geography, strategic location and talented people have historically been too attractive for nations like Castilla and France, two of the most belligerent nations on earth. So they just took all they could, by force. And they still do. Catalonia should not be justifying itself, we should be recognizing the string of historical grievances and compensate them for damages. And it was all started by us, the Brits, in Utrecht, back in 1714...
In the 21st century there should not be anybody in prison for expressing their ideas or organizing referendums. Moncloa is behaving like a dictatorial regime. I had not expected this from a Western European country. That is why I support Puidgdemont. If Catalan people want their independence inside EU, why refusing?
It is the right of the Catalonian people to choose independence. The spanish have no right to call a referendum Illegal. Calling a referendum illegal is like claiming free speech is illegal. During the vote police stormed the polls and beat the hell out of the people for doing nothing other than excising their right to their opinion. It sickens me that the spanish government has regressed so far back as to use methods that would be typically know as Franco's methods. At this point if a country has to resorts to methods similar to that of a tyrannical dictatorship then the country deserves to fall.
Quite frankly the spanish government is lucky that their option to deny the people their right to vote didn't lead to a crisis similar to Crimea with militia conflicts.
Why pay large taxes to Spain when you do not need their support? Catalonians are different, if they want to be free, just let them! A word of advice, however, Catalonians, you must seek an alliance from either France or the US, Spain will be EXTREMELY ticked off, but good luck!
IT's not like the Catalonians can't support themselves, they've proven that they can. Why pay lots of taxes to Spain when you could be your own country, and can provide for yourself? 1 word of advice, catalonians, you must seek alliance from either France or America. Spain will be EXTREMELY ticked off.
I'm foreign, I live in Catalonia and I never understood their wish to be independent. But, after seeing the central govern's actitude these last days and all the shameless violence agains the catalan people today, I've just became a supporter of the Catalonia's independence. Good luck, Catalonia!!!! I'm with you!!!
Rajoy is using the billions of euros Spain owes German, Dutch, Austrian and Finnish tax payers to revive a Franco style policy towards Catalonia. Is he afraid to lose the financial contribution of this rich region? The Catalans have their own distinct language, culture and territory. If the majority of Catalans want to achieve independence, they should have the right to become an independent republic and remain part of the European Union as a new member state. Unlike Spain, Catalonia will contribute financially to the EU. We shouldn't be surprised about the Rajoy junta. It doesn't recognize the independence of Kosovo either.
It would be the biggest shame of 21th century history of the EU if the we let their absolutely justified independence movement brutally beaten down. Shame on the silent EU, shame on the silent European countries, especially on those who ever had to fight for their independence but now cowardly back off.
Foreign ministers, EU MP-s, speak up for the Catalans! Maybe it is not too late.
First of all i'm an American living in Barcelona and from a political view point there's a lot of argument about "oh i'm different because i'm Catalan". Well buddy aren't we all different? But enough of that, the Catalans are made because their government is paying a big portion of Spain's national revenue and they don't get enough of it back but my issue is that they try to find the most ridiculous way to solve their problem (which it won't but i'll get to that in a second).The whole country is in the same hole and instead of working around the problem, they work against the problem and this has been going on for decades. Second, they state that all Spaniards are mean and hate catalans. Um no they're not and they wouldn't be saying anything if you didn't provoke them by burning their flag (which is theirs as well). The only person to blame is Rajoy so don't go saying that spaniards are facists pigs and that they salute to Franco because believe it or not my mom is spanish(asturian) and her grandfather fought in the civil war against Franco and one day when he was about to be shot against a wall a friend of his from the other side said stop because he helped his family through hard times when they didn't have food or supplies. So in this part of the argument there's a lot of ignorance and misinterpreted information that is passed on from family members and school mates. You know the schools teach the students to work together but at the same time they are in a way supporting Catalan independence for what they say and how they interpret it. The economic situation in Spain is getting better bt that does not mean it's a clear for the Catalans. On to economics, so if catalonia got independence, it would literally be seperated from the E.U. And it would be practically impossible to join due to a VERY long process and decision. They do not have all the necessary resources to survive on their own. They would have to create their own currency. So these are major reasons that secession would screw up Catalonia. So folks, learn from someone who has a clear perspective of this situation. And those who are reading this from Scotland, Flanders, Quebec, Bretons, etc, take my advice and work with your neighbors. Don't compare your situation with other people sitiuations because as philosophy says not to compare your self with someone else but we are all human being trying to survive in a world that is still struggling to stay alive. Think twice before making a mistake that you will regret for the rest of your life.
The Catalan people have a proud history but have always been ruled by other powers: firstly the Greeks and the Carthaginians, then the Romans, the Visigoths, the Moors (Muslims) and the Franks before becoming part of the Kingdom of Aragon and thence Spain.
It is a beautiful part of the world and the people and language are very attractive but, just like the Welsh, the Scots, the Bretons, the Walloons, the Fresians and the Basque people, they are all better off as semi-autonomous states within larger members of the EU (the UK, France, Belgium and Spain respectively).
The argument supporting Catalan independence is largely a fictitious belief that because they have their own culture and language they should be separate from Spain. There is and argument however for where tax money is going. But that is an issue that should be approached differently than immediately trying to succeed from Spain. We should not be focusing on the fact that there is a different culture because that is a fruitless and overall asinine argument. We should instead be focusing on the real issues such as how tax money is distributed and how we can better the system.
First off, I'm an American and was researching this for the debate topic, which if you haven't guess, is over Spain granting Catalonia independence, after some research I found that in order to join the EU, they would need every member to agree. When you add in the fact that the decision was unilateral, many countries won't recognize it so they lose 60% of exports. Not only that most everything they need such as power are distributed from Madrid making a split very expensive from both sides. The argument that they are different is BS and shouldn't even be recognized, most countries have areas that are ethnically different and they don't have a reason to split. Catalonia just wants to shake Spanish debt by splitting.
If Catalonia want independence then everywhere that wanted independence would try and follow. The civil guard will be sent in plus the fact that the civil war started like this. Spain and Catalonia could make a fortune together as all the tourists will want to go to a big country, easy to get to. If somebody wanted to get a train from Valencia to Barcelona you would go through passport control. Military is Spain's job.In summary, Spain are strong together.
It´s right that they want independance, but with less than 50% of the votes you cannot summit people to vote in a referendum only agreed by one side of the equation. Not respecting the law makes them act antidemocratically. It cant be "I dont like this law so Ill act as I want". They have irresponsabilly created a massive division inside catalan´s society. Their desire is legal, their ways arent. Just continously looking for a martyr to statehow "dictatorial" Spain is
The Spanish Constitution states that Spain is indivisible. That means that in order to change the 'statu quo' they should propose a change in the constitution and then the whole population in Spain decide about it. Besides, the organisers allow all people who live in Catalonia older than 16 vote, but Catalonians who live in the rest of Spain are not allowed to vote. That is simply not fair.
On 11th September Catalans celebrate the defeat of the Carlist army (supporters of Charles of Hauptburg) by the Borbonic army (supporters of Philip Bourbon, later Philip V). It was a war of succession. Catalonia has never been independent. And their language is spoken in Valencia and the Balearic Islands too. I come from the Valencian Comunity. I speak Catalan but I don't consider myself Catalan. Still, Catalan nationalists claim the so called "Països catalans" including Valencia and the Balearic Islands.
Catalonia's nationalism started in the 19th century with the cultural moment Renaixença (rebirth). Later, during the 1st Republic in the 1930s they had some autonomy and claimed independence, but it was rovoked by Franco. Their language and culture was not forbidden. The language was not taught in schools, but it was spoken in people's homes. Today, they are doing the same with Castilian Spanish. It is only taught as a foreign language.
Today, the reasons are mainly economic and to divert attention from the state of corruption of their politicians (ex-president Pujol, the ERC-PSC-ICV coalition and CIU governments). They accuse Spain of robbing them, but they are being robbed by their politicians. Besides, Catalonia is the region with the greatest debt in the whole Spanish territory.
As a Spaniard coming from Extremadura -Spain's poorest region- and having lived previously in the Basque Country and currently in Catalonia for 8 years I would state in a nutshell that there is not at this moment a proper, serious, rational debate about this topic. It is true that Spain is a country constructed by the whole of the different identities and former kingdoms of the Iberian Peninsula, so whenever someone identifies oneself as "Spanish" is somehow including the whole of the different identities existing in the country by addition or by omission, not only apprehending the toros, fiesta, and paella part. So the idiosyncratic land-loving pulsions of the Catalan people existed since the very beginning of the creation of the Spanish State, but in the same way as for the old Castillian, Leonese, Galician, Navarre, Granadian, Aragonese people. Back on the times of Romanticism, in the German speaking countries the literature was generally about the "Sturm und Drang" topics -the human in the face of the grandiosity of nature-, but in Spain the topic was mainly focused on what we called "Costumbrismo" -sublimation of the habits and customs of a place-, which led into a construction of the national legend. The statement that there is an ancient Catalan identity oppressed by a centralist, totalitarian and alien Spanish state is a product of a biased interpretation of the recent -and not so recent- history. In the construction of the Catalan national myth, Catalonia was allocated in an industrial area, state-funded to the detriment of some other rural, countryside areas, because of its access to the sea, its geopolitical position, and the relevance of the overseas Catalan business -slavery, cotton-labour, textile industry-. This national myth, mainly based on the idea of the superiority of the Catalan people against the lazy, subsidized country workers remained, as an open secret up to the time when harsh times arouse -2008 Financial Crisis-. Why has this thing come in times of economic turmoil? Is Catalonia an oppressed place? If this situation was formerly so untenable, why did not arise before, specially in times of economic bloom? Catalonia is nothing but the mirror of the whole of the problems found in Spain with the difference that in Catalonia we are so lucky that we have found a common enemy -and its name is not Angela Merkel-. I must state that there is not a serious debate out here so in Catalonia the public opinion is kidnapped by the Generalitat (i.E. Catalan government)-subsidized media that are announcing that Catalonia is an independent country, only that it has not achieved independence yet. History lessons in schools are biased by a local government that manipulate the curricula to their own likes. There is such a mental alienation in here that is common to confuse a War of Succession with a War of Secession, and it is such a shame to feed the public-funded mental alienation recalling 1714 in terms of revenge, without making any reflection on 1641.
There is no doubt that Catalonia is a Nation with a distinct culture, its own traditions and language. As a nation Catalonia should have the right to develop fully, embracing their unique identity and capabilities without the Spanish restrictions and limitations.
Independent Catalonia will continue to work hard and with time, will grow strong and become a modern and attractive country in Europe, I think we all know that, sadly this is something that the Spanish government will never tolerate so they use an obsolete Constitution to stop the people of Catalonia from voting, pathetic!