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If there is no God, can there still be absolute values and immutable moral principles?

Asked by: ladiesman
  • Ethics without God

    In previous instances I have asked, "Can there be a morality in general without God?". Now I'm asking if there can be absolute moral standards in a godless universe. Perhaps God is needed as a foundation of morality ontologically, in objective fact, but not psychologically. We can point to the universal laws of physics without tracing them to the divine mind that created them.

  • Morality created religion.

    Without morality there is no divine being to say what is holy and what is not. Morality creates religion because throughout the world you see different cultures because of religions, social ques, rituals, etc. All of those things are derived off of what the society deems morality to be. In conclusion, morality is the perspective on what is deemed acceptable in a society which then dictates what is created and interpenetrated in that society.

  • Yes, but there is a G0d

    Morally exists separate from a supreme being- Albert Einstein,
    But as G0d is flawless, he is perfectly moral, G0d does not decide morality, he just abides by it, and if he does something, it is moral, if that makes sense to you. But there is a G0d, and I can prove it.

  • Our acting and our chooses are not influenced by God's existance

    I think there is a general ethics in our acting that follows what Greek philosophers such as Plato and Socrates called the " law of useful", which says that what makes the biggest part of the population happy is right.
    About Got, I think that his existence doesn't influence our values, which, as I explained before, follow the law of useful

  • I believe there are.

    Moral

    1. A lesson, especially one concerning what is right or prudent, that can be derived from a story, a piece of information, or an experience.

    2. A person's standards of behavior or beliefs concerning what is and is not acceptable for them to do.

    I guess #2 would be derived from #1. But lets say you conceptualize it. I have a concept that I would not like to have my arm chopped off. It sounds, because of my experiences in life, very painful even though I have never had it done to me. I believe I can take this concept and apply it to the real world. I don't think I would like to have my arm cut off so I am not going to cut anyone Else's arm off. The Golden Rule. Not that divine really, just requires seeing life through someone Else's point of view.

  • Only if you're shallow.

    In the West, morality is being kind to others. In the Muslim world, morality is blowing up innocent women and children on the bus. So without G-d, what makes your morality better than Mr. Ahmed's? After all, we're just animals, products of natural selection, just like our monkey/tiger/elephant friends? Only G-d gets to decide what is moral and what is not. Everything else is man-made. Thus, morality in itself is a religion.

  • There are no morals apart from God.

    Everyone else on this conversation have avoided the question, including the one who asked it! But here is the dirt, if God did not exist, there would be no morals.

    Now, don't explode at me with the cultural morals, where it is fine for an Italian to go swimming in the Mediterranean in his birthday suit, but there are absolute morals! For example, it is ALWAYS good to love one another. ALWAYS bad to murder. But is it bad for a lion to kill? No, God made them to kill to eat.

  • Even if God was shown to be true and real , which he has not , that does not mean that God is perfect

    If God is perfect , why can he create imperfect or evil things , since by definition he is the most pure being , any act that has any kind of negative consequences from his actions means that he is actually impure and a grand plan is no excuse either


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