Is not saying the pledge of allegiance just as patriotic as saying it. (freedom of speech)

Asked by: mrkriswood
  • I've always thought this.

    Saying the pledge of allegiance doesn't mean you care one bit about the country. I do not say the pledge of allegiance in the morning, but I love this country to death. People can say the pledge and grow up to be murderers, definitely not living up to the goals of the country, while people can not say the pledge and grow up to be the next president that serves the country faithfully. Actions speak louder then words!

  • I think it depends

    I dint think it makes you patriotic just because its freedom of speech thats stupid. But i sont say it because its says libery and justice for all and we dont have that yet. Some in my class dont say it to make a statement and try and make our country better. Also patriotism isnt really a positive or negative character trait.

  • Its using your rights

    If freedom of speech is the right of people to publicly express their opinions without governmental interference and the government is pressuring its citizens to say the pledge, then the citizens are being influenced to say things they may not completely agree with, and going against this influence is utilizing the right to freedom of speech. Also, freedom of speech wasn't invented to allow people to complement the government, it was meant so people could speak out again injustice. Thus, people not saying the pledge is simply exercising their rights, so it is patriotic.

  • You can't assume someone is a patriot by default.

    Saying nothing cannot be interpreted as patriotic. They could mean any spectrum of thing by not saying it. They could not be saying it for any set of unpatriotic ideas, one can never know if you don't speak.

    Granted, a person saying it could be just going through the numbers and not believe what they are saying. At the very least though, we can ascertain that they are more likely to try and understand the meaning of what their saying. It lays the groundwork for teaching people what our nation values.

    Because of it, you can ask virtually anyone out there and they can tell you we are a nation that values liberty, justice for all, and the function of a republic form of government (adequate representation in your governments doings).

    It makes those beliefs a standard. It definitely has its place. It helps unify us under common ideals. You can't just assume them. You do have to speak them or have them in writing (hence declaration of independence and constitution, too). There is more power in it then.

  • Speaks for itself.

    Freedom of speech is the right of people to express their opinions publicly without governmental interference, subject to the laws against libel, incitement to violence or rebellion, etc. Refusal to take the pledge, because of your first amendment rights, is in fact stating that you refuse to ally with the country. If you are not with us, you are against us. Clearly not patriotic.

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Vox_Veritas says2015-04-30T02:23:34.737
To not recite the pledge is the right of every American citizen, but it's far from patriotic.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-04-30T14:14:13.050
"Also patriotism isnt really a positive or negative character trait."

That depends on which country you belong to in relation to said patriot.
maggymeow says2015-04-30T14:52:17.113
"your either for us or against us" do you know how dumb that is? There are a lot of things that I am not for nor against (for example this argument). There are parts of the pledge I don't say like with the god part. As an atheist I have the right to not say that. Though I don't think that not saying it is particularly "patriotic" I do not believe that saying it is such a big matter
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-04-30T15:05:55.107
Ok ... One part. Now suppose someone didn't like saying any of it, didn't agree with any of it, etc. You couldn't call that person an adversary? They don't agree with the base fundamental things that a patriot believes to be necessary for a just and good society. It can be pretty black and white at that point.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-04-30T15:09:07.313
It's not a "let's agree to disagree" thing about justice or liberty. It's not "you don't like outlaws and I do, lets just agree to disagree. I'll go on supporting outlaws and you go on denouncing them ... And at the end of the day we have to respect eachother". Thats not how any of this works.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-04-30T15:12:15.043
You don't get respect for choosing to be dishonorable. The fact that you made a choice on the matter doesn't automatically make you respectable. At the end of the day you're still being dishonorable.
retrogamer176 says2015-04-30T17:36:56.990
@freedombeforeequality I agree, which is why not stating the north Korean pledge everyday makes you an enemy of north Korea.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-04-30T17:42:07.837
And I'm fine with that.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-04-30T17:42:32.630
Because I don't believe in what they stand for.
retrogamer176 says2015-04-30T17:47:00.203
@freedombeforeequality I don't think north korea has a pledge. And yes, this is a let's agree to disagree situation. This, and outlaws are 2 COMPLETELY different subjects.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-04-30T17:59:58.653
Ugh ... Justice for all! It says justice for all right in the damn pledge. It's not a different subject. By stating the pledge you are pledging to that ideal. By not saying it, you are rebuking it. Plain and simple.

Stephy even said she doesnt say it specifically because she refutes God. I think its safe to say someone who feels they cant say it because they dont agree with us is saying they do not believe in justice or liberty either. Outlaw = person working outside the law and free from justice.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-04-30T18:06:08.037
You can disagree, but it wont make you a ally to any of us. I'd be fundamentally disagreeing to disagree on these types of matters. We go to war over this type of stuff. They arent a live and let live ideals, justice or liberty. People who don't believe in them to their core are always going to be seen as enemies to the rest of us. All root causes of problems in our society derive from someone breaking one of those two ideals.
retrogamer176 says2015-04-30T18:52:07.037
@freedombeforeequality I don't believe there is a god so I say the pledge in it's original form: I pledge allegiance to the flag and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-04-30T19:46:40.663
That's better at least. That way you're only burning bridges with religious extremists and not every single American citizen at once.