• It represents a nation based around slavery.

    I have no idea how so many people disagree. This flag represents a nation, quite literally formed under the sole pretext of being racist and enslaving blacks. This is the same nation in which the KKK was formed. I don't understand how a flag that represents slavery is not inherently racist. Someone please explain...

  • South was founded on racism

    The confederate flag was formed when the south succeeded after a ABOLITIONIST president was elected. The southern economy was fueled by slavery and thus their flag is symbolic of racism. Racism is dehumanization and dehumanization allows for nuclear war, genocide, and other terrible repercussions. The confederate flag cannot be allowed because it allows the mindset of dehumanization to continue.

  • Ask yourself some questions

    Slavery was the most significant reason - by far - for the southern states succeeding. Were "state rights" also an issue? Sure, they were a big issue - the southern states wanted their "state right" to own slaves. Plain and simple, slavery was the cornerstone for the succession. This fact cannot be ignored. The Confederate Flag didn't exist before the succession. It was created during the war, specifically to represent southern military units, who, keep in mind, were fighting primarily to uphold their "state rights" to own slaves. Were they also fighting for other things? Sure, but it doesn't change the fact that slavery was at the top of the list - maybe not for every single individual, but the confederacy as a whole. So if you support the confederate flag, what are you really supporting? Are you completely ignoring when, and why, it was created and substituting what it really represents with your own reasons? You're entitled to support the flag based on what it means to you as an individual, and it doesn't necessarily make you as an individual racist, but you can't ignore that the flag's origin is a symbol for military units who fought a war to support slavery. If you simply want to show "southern pride" or your heritage, why not choose something that's not so deeply rooted to slavery supporters? That is, unless you're racist.

  • It is a hate symbol.

    The Confederate flag was a hate symbol of the Civil War era. It's meaning has not changed since then. The Confederacy left the Union in order to preserve the labor force of the enslaved African Americans. The Confederacy truly believed that the African Americans were inferior to the whites and therefore must work for them. They donned the Confederate flag as their symbol and gave it its racist meaning.

  • Slavery is Racism

    If the confederate flag is representing a time when African Americans were bound to slavery, how can you possibly say that the Confederate flag isn't racist? For those of you who thinks its just a flag, either your ignorant because of the knowledge that your apparently lacking or you are undercover racist. GET REAL

  • It is a symbol of a place and a time that supported race-based slavery.

    The Klu Klux Klan flies this flag. Do we really need to argue this point? People who like this flag need to find another way to express their pride in a place that once supported slavery and treason. Finally, the losers in any war are never allowed to fly their flag once they have lost. The Confederacy lost. This seems fairly simple.

  • States' Rights argument Falls Short!

    Those supporting Southern Secession based on states' rights are avoiding the issue. They seceded because they refused to give up the practice of enslaving other human beings. This argument is simply a way to avoid accountability for an outrageous atrocity [slavery] perpetrated in a nation founded on liberty. Don't be persuaded by the states' rights argument--it misses the real issue.

  • The flag supports slavery.

    The confederate flag seems like it would represent racism because the southerns used it to show there pride, but they are being proud of slavery. The slaves were black, look at a primary source. There was no WHITE slave. Why? Why not slave a white person? I understand that back then they may not believe we are all equal, but we all have the same feelings inside. Every black person has feelings just as whites. We get sad, so do they. We get mad, so do they. Enslaving the blacks is not fair at all. So, because they have different colored skin then us it makes us better than them? There are not just bad black people, there are bad white people as well. If you go to jail, don't expect to see just black people, you will see whites too. So how did that make us any better? Exactly, it didn't.

  • Anyone Who Knows History...

    ...Knows that indeed the war was not about "states' rights," or any other such nonsense. The myth of the Lost Cause and all the apologist claptrap that has come down to us since then may suggest the war was about anything but slavery, but the real history, including the declarations of seccession, tell another story. The flag and its cause are racist and always have been.

  • The confederate flag is a symbol or racism.

    The confederate flag may have started by being a symbol of succession, but it was also the brand to show off white power. It is a symbol of a time when white people wanted to keep slavery and not participate with the American belief that all men are created equal. The flag stirs feelings of slavery, discrimination, and hate and thus racism has found its symbol in the confederate flag.

  • No

    The flag is not racist. It is a symbol of patriots who were willing to die to protect this country and make sure it remained as the founders intended. Slavery was never the reason fir the war but only an excuse to start one.Lincoln could care less if slavery remained and is on record stating such, even offering to make slavery legal in the Southern states in return for the South compromising their beliefs. In contrast, Jefferson Davis had a written plan to end slavery within five years. We are still fighting the same battle as was fought back then. Freedom with as little interference frim the federal government as possible. Teach children the truth and it will sit us ALL free.

  • Nonsense

    As a history teacher and a Stanford historian, I am shocked at the dismantling of southern history based upon the mistaken assumption that the Confederate flag is representative of racism. Look at any photograph of the Klan when it was at its height, you will not find a single Confederate flag but plenty of United States flags, shall we then ban the US flag which flew over far more suffering under its name?

  • Its about pride.

    The best way to put it is that were proud of the south. Our ways may not be right to northerns but guess what. Wed be just fine if you'd keep you as* up there. We love our bad emission trucks and "wrongful ways". I fly a rebel flag in the back of my 9mpg chevy and the day some north POS thinks he's gonna take it out will be the day that northern dies.

  • The symbol is not racist

    If the misuse of a symbol trumps its original meaning, then the SWASTIKA, a symbol used by Hindus would forever be tarnished by the NAZIs.
    Yet the SWASTIKA adorns many temples in India and no one calls them NAZIs.
    Likewise, the Confederate Battle Flag is not a symbol of "white power", nor slavery, nor hate.

  • History is written by the victor

    History is written by the victor. The North won the war, so they get to write the history of why the Civil War was fought, saying that all Southerners were racist slaveowners, yet 90 % of Confederate soldiers did not own slaves, and there were some black Confederate soldiers. What is being taught to the youth of today os warped. What's next? That the Civil War was fought over vampirism?
    You can educate ignorance, but you can't fix stupid.

  • Is not racist

    The civil war did not start by slavery it started by state rights. The KKK first flew the american flag. The confederate flag means you have southern blood and are a southern person. It does not mean that you are racist. This is why it is not racist. Thank You

  • Y'all don't understand

    This is not the flag of the confederate states this is the confederate battle flag that was used on the battlefield. People came it's offensive because hate groups use it. It's time y'all had a reality check. The kkk used the American flag during protests how come that's not considered racist? So when they use the confederate battle flag it's considered racist? I am black and I have a confederate flag on my flagpole and my neighbors aren't offended. It's apart of my heritage. Confederate soldiers helped one of my relatives escape from captivity so my relative wanted to fight along side them so he did and the confederate soldiers let him. This flag is not racist. It's an inanimate object.

  • NO this flag is not a symbol of racism

    If you think the Confederate Flag is a symbol of racism you need of a history lesson. The Northern economy depended on slavery, And so did the Southern one. rebel.belle has a point, The US flag flew over slavery for 86 years, the Confederate only 4. Ho ever says otherwise is ignorant.

  • No, but the Stars & Stripes is

    The Stars and Stripes flew over American slave ships, which mainly transported slaves from Africa to the Caribbean and S America. It flew over the New England states, particularly RI and MA, where prominent families made fortunes in the filthy slave trade, it flew over the US Army units that oversaw ethnic cleansing of American Indians during the Trail of Tears and later conducted a campaign of genocide against the Plains Indians from 1860 - 90. The Confederate flags flew over army units that integrated blacks and whites together and defended their homes and families against and cruel, brutal, murderous enemy that waged "total war" against the South, including civilians, women and children, white and black.

  • The confederate flag is not RACIST!

    The confederate flag is not racist because the Civil War was about States Rights and and anybody who wants to say it is racist is a complete idiot. The actual confederate flag was not stars and bars it was however 13 stars in a circle in a field of red. Yes slavery did get brought into the Civil War but that was after it started. It was originally about states rights. The confederate flag is heritage not HATE.

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Anonymous says2013-07-21T12:57:36.447
What do you think of when you see the flag above? What message do you think it sends?

Racism? Slavery? Hatred? White supremacy?

Something worse?

Now, what do you see when you look at the flag? What is actually on the flag?

The color Red? White? Blue? Thirteen stars?

Is that all? See anything else?

Look closer and take some time to actually think about what you are seeing. Examine every detail of the flag and it's design, because the layout of the contents of this flag actually portrays the true message the flag is sending.

And for the record... Neither the design nor the content have anything to do with racism, slavery, hatred or white supremacy... Or anything worse!

All the COLOR could be removed from this flag, leaving just the outline of the details, and the true message the design is sending could still be determined by anyone with a basic knowledge of history and an ounce of common sense.


First of all, this flag is NOT the "Confederate Flag." It is the "Battle Flag of Northern Virginia." This design, however, is the one most synonymous with the term, and the one used in various forms on many of the other flags that were flown by the Confederate States. It is also the one most hated by those who are completely and totally ignorant of what it stands for.

So take another look at the flag and answer this very simple question : Do you see a big letter "X" anywhere on the flag? What if I were to lay that X down on its side like this? : Do you see it now? The X is formed by the big, blue bands which are outlined with white trim.

Now take another look at the flag. On this big "X" there are thirteen white stars. See them? Do you know what these thirteen stars represent? They represent the thirteen original, united colonies from which the United States began. Each one of these colonies had its own system of self government... Until the start of 'northern aggression' when the northern states began trying to usurp authority over the southern states. This was the main cause of the Civil War.

Point of fact : The thirteen stars on this flag appear to lie on the blue X... But in reality, the X lies on the stars, allowing them to shine through.

Now, a simple question : Do you remember from your grade-school years how the teachers would sometimes ask you to circle the right answers or picture on a work page, or to put an X on a picture or word or other item that didn't belong in a group? That is the same concept this flag is designed around; the stars are laid out in the pattern of an X, and the blue bands are put on the thirteen stars to show that the southern states no longer wanted to be a part of the union with the northern states. In simpler terms, the message of flag's design is simply this... CROSS US OUT of your Union! The southern states withdrew from the union in a movement called "secession," which led to the Civil War.

That is the only message this flag is sending!

That is all there is to it!

It is just that simple!

If this flag actually represented slavery, hatred, white supremacy, or something worse, as so many biased and uneducated people so foolishly believe, then it's design would reflect that by incorporating images of those whom it stood against, and there would be a big X on their images.

But that is NOT what is on this flag!

And that is NOT the message this flag sends!

This flag is NOT racist! NEVER has been! NEVER will be!

And as I stated earlier, all that people need to have to be able to see and understand this obvious truth is a basic knowledge of history and an ounce of common sense!
Anonymous says2013-08-06T17:37:51.377
Look at the Stars and Stripes of the USA - The same flag that has been flown when we entered an imperialistic era, capturing territories for ourselves to exploit for resources. The same flag that has been flown in the era of Manifest Destiny, when we pushed Amerindians off of their own land and confined them to live on reservations. The same flag that had been flown by Union troops as they had burned down civilian homes, while carpetbaggers ruled and exploited the war-torn South, which drove many Southerners, driven mad from hatred, to form the KKK, an anti-Black and anti-Northern terrorist group. The same flag that had been flown when we dropped two atom bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, killing 150,000-246,000 civilians.

Does this mean that we should change our own national flag, because of our own dark past associated with it?
Liadan says2013-10-07T00:45:20.113
You left off the last sentence which shows the TRUE Confederate Flag...And its not *this* one.
jeffe92 says2014-10-03T18:59:05.727
STATES RIGHTS IS THE CENTRAL ISSUE AND FOCUS of the Confederacy not slavery. This is historical fact. Both Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson were for integrating blacks into the military service in exchange for freedom. The social democrats and socialists levy the racist charge because their agenda is juxtaposed to states rights. The social democrats and socialist use the racism charge as a smoke screen because of their fear of a resurgence of the States Rights doctrine.
Travel says2015-07-03T16:22:21.810
Ulysses S. Grant, who worked closely with Abraham Lincoln to lead the Union Army, owned slaves. Grant flew the American flag and owned slaves so why isn't that flag looked at negatively? KKK flew it also. If one flag is bad, why not both? I am well traveled and when I come to a historic site flying the Confederic flag, the only thing I think is how if people today wanted to separate to make their own country, for what ever reason could be possible in 2015, there is no way it could happen with out a fight. Those people were very very brave. Also, most Indians fought with the Confederates and Texas and New Mexico, both states with hardly any slaves, were Confederate States
RobinRobin says2015-07-06T15:37:15.880
Like ISIS in 2015, The Confederacy in 1861 was not a legitimate government and was not recognized as such by any other government in the world, despite its pretensions. All of the various Confederate flags (particularly the ubiquitous "Battle Flag") were and still are symbolic of the values of those states, among which is treason. While you may try to amend the argument after the fact, as did Jefferson Davis and his Vice President Alexander Stephens, that the war was a matter of states rights and not racial superiority, there is no revising the blatant acts of treason represented by every act committed beneath the Confederate banner. You still have the right to fly such a symbol of treason at your own peril for whatever reason (amazingly it is still socially acceptable by self proclaimed patriots -- go figure!) but the overwhelming message of dishonor and disloyalty to our country is not something to be celebrated.
nthnpark0 says2015-07-07T16:08:55.590
For those who claim that the Confederate Flag merely represents “heritage not hate” and has nothing to do with slavery because only 0.000000001% of white southerners were ever planters, the beliefs and intentions of the DESIGNERS OF THE FLAG are worth taking note.
William Porcher Miles, chairman of the flag and seal committee explicitly said that slavery was a “divine institution”, and rejected any compromise on slavery. He was also a member of the Fire Eaters, extreme secessionists who wanted to import more slaves from Africa. To Miles, any attack on slavery was an excuse to secede. Then there was William Tappan Thompson, who vehemently opposed any kind of civil rights for blacks and even called the flag, explicitly, “the white man’s flag? After learning this history of the flag, how can anyone maintain that it is merely “heritage?”

As we see, the flag had its origins in racism, but its supporters will try to come up with anything they can so they can avoid facing reality. All of these deflections can be batted out the ball park by the worse little league tee ball player you can find. Going back to the very beginning and saying “Africans sold other Africans to whites” doesn’t mean a whole lot because white slave traders had a gun cycle with enemy tribes to get them to kidnap one another, as they also had done to a degree with Native Americans. Those Africans, many of whom also found themselves being kidnapped aka “sold” because it was a kill or be killed, capture or be captured, situation with the white traders and their gun cycle, never told the whites in the Americas how to deal with slavery and had no effect on the Confederacy and the Confederate flag later. So their complicity ended there. Another deflection is that there were “black slave owners in America”. Yes, in New Orleans and Charleston, there were two freed mixed race communities who had been recognized as heirs by their white fathers and became involved with plantations, hardly “black slave owners.”. How does that absolve the Confederacy or prove the flag is not racist? No one knows, not even those who bring that up in a pathetic attempt to do so. We are also constantly reminded that less than 0.000000000001% of all whites ever had anything to do whatsoever with slavery. Problem with that was that the south felt they could control the country because so much of the economy at the time depended on products from plantations. There were lots of whites who supported slavery in the Confederacy even if they themselves were never planters. It shouldn’t be forgotten that the designer of the flag,William Porcher Miles, was never an actual planter, yet he called slavery a “divine institution”. Then we are we told by the flag the lovers that the American flag and the flag of other nations flew over slavery for a million years before the Confederate flag did, and that American flag flew over slave ships while the Confederacy’s flag never did. That's countered by the fact that none of the founding fathers of the USA, as well as those of other countries, ever said that the cornerstone of the United States or the other countries rests on race based chattel slavery or racism, unlike the leaders of the Confederacy, like Alexander Stephens. Also, North America’s involvement in Transatlantic slave trade was pretty much done long before the Confederacy came into existence, though there were those like William Porcher Miles who wanted to reopen it. So using the American flag, or other countries’ flag as a deflection to the Confederate flag on the slavery issue also falls flat under any inspection. And we are also told that the American flag has more blood on it than the Confederate flag does, so if the Confederate flag should come down, then so should the American flag. That falls flat under any inspection because the American flag was never called the “white man’s flag” by Betsy Ross. Then there are those who will say that if the Confederate flag represents treason, then so does the American flag. The problem with that is that not only did the United States win, albeit with some help from other countries like France,the Revolutionary War, but how many government buildings in England have the American flag flying? When faced with insurmountable counters to these deflections, the flag lovers will pull more strawman’s out the air. None of it works. The flag is racist. Period.
nthnpark0 says2015-07-07T16:09:27.603
The flag lovers make sure that it is known what Abraham Lincoln said at the 1858 debates. It is true that in 1858, Abraham Lincoln had a debate with Stephen A Douglas. Lincoln, who didn’t want slavery to expand into the territories, was accused by Douglas’s camp of being in favor of civil rights for blacks, since he wasn’t in favor of the south expanding slavery into the new territories. Lincoln pushed back and said that just because he was against slavery’s expansion doesn’t mean that he’s in favor of civil rights. This is one of the flag lovers’ favorite deflections, and their supposed “proof” that the flag is NOT racist. YAY!!! Some of them also like to bring up that Abraham Lincoln said it would be a good idea if blacks left the United States. They ignore that over the course of the war that Lincoln stopped mentioning repatriation in addition to softening his views on race. It should be reminded that the same can not be said for the leaders of the Confederacy. There literally is nothing anyone can come up with to absolve or pass blame on either the Confederacy or the battle flag. Nothing. Every deflection that flag defenders can come up with can be countered all so easily.

What will really be shocking is that aside from a few cases, such as some Confederate soldier funerals, some white southern soldiers in WW2 bringing the battle flag with them, and Mississipi in the 1890s incorporating the battle flag design into its flag, the battle flag was rarely seen.
Robert E Lee himself wanted nothing to do with the flag after the war, and a Confederate chaplain by the name of Abram Joseph Ryan had a poem titled “The Conquered Banner” in which he told southerners that the flag should be furled. For a long time, the battle flag as well as other Confederate flags had largely faded into obscurity. Equally shocking is the reason why this particular flag became so popular, around eighty years, after the Civil War.

It turns out that that the Confederate battle flag only became prominent around eighty years after the end of the Civil War, and the reason why had nothing to do with “heritage” and a lot to do with “hate”. The reason why this flag gained notoriety was because conservative politicians in the south, aka “Dixiecrats” (during the time when the Democratic Party was the conservative party while the Republicans were the progressives), did not take kindly to President Harry Truman’s push for desegregation and the start of the Civil Rights Movement. Led by Strom Thurmond, the Dixiecrats resurrected the battle flag and used it as rallying symbol to oppose Civil Rights for blacks. That’s right, people, if it wasn’t clear enough that the creators of the flag had racist intentions, to say nothing of the Confederacy itself, the flag was revived for racism. How can anyone maintain that the battle flag merely represents “southern heritage”? Unless by “southern heritage”, they not only mean fighting to preserve racially based chattel plantation slavery, treason, and racism, of course.

It was only during the Civil Rights Movement, that the flag became popular. It’s very likely that many of those waving the flag had ever even seen the flag before. So much for “southern heritage” and not “hate”.
It was only much later after the Civil Rights Movement was lost by the flag wavers, that someone came out with the “heritage not hate” nonsense. Today, the Confederate battle flag is still seen, not just by conservatives in America, but even far right wing groups in Europe, as it was intended to be: a far right wing symbol. It is a racist flag, no matter how its lovers try to slice it.

Fortunately, there are more people who are coming to the realization that this outdated symbol of oppression can be done without today. Bertram Hayes-Davis, Jefferson Davis's Great-Great-Grandson, thinks it is time for the Confederate battle flag to go.
Another important opinion to be considered is that of Paul Thurmond, son of Strom Thurmond, who is responsible for both the revival and popularity of the flag. Paul also thinks it is time for the flag to be taken down. If *THEY* think it is now time for the flag to be put back away, who is anyone to disagree with them?

It is time for the flag to come down. Anyone who actually respects Confederate heritage will follow the wishes of Robert E Lee and that of the Rev. Abram Joseph Ryan in his “Conquered Banner” poem.
nthnpark0 says2015-07-07T16:10:10.237
“Furl that Banner, for 'tis weary;
Round its staff 'tis drooping dreary;
Furl it, fold it, it is best;
For there's not a man to wave it,
And there's not a sword to save it,
And there's no one left to lave it
In the blood that heroes gave it;
And its foes now scorn and brave it;
Furl it, hide it--let it rest!

Take that banner down! 'tis tattered;
Broken is its shaft and shattered;
And the valiant hosts are scattered
Over whom it floated high.
Oh! 'tis hard for us to fold it;
Hard to think there's none to hold it;
Hard that those who once unrolled it
Now must furl it with a sigh.

Furl that banner! Furl it sadly!
Once ten thousands hailed it gladly.
And ten thousands wildly, madly,
Swore it should forever wave;
Swore that foeman's sword should never
Hearts like theirs entwined dissever,
Till that flag should float forever
O'er their freedom or their grave!

Furl it! For the hands that grasped it,
And the hearts that fondly clasped it,
Cold and dead are lying low;
And that Banner--it is trailing!
While around it sounds the wailing
Of its people in their woe.

For, though conquered, they adore it!
Love the cold, dead hands that bore it!
Weep for those who fell before it!
Pardon those who trailed and tore it!
But, oh! Wildly they deplored it!
Now who furl and fold it so.

Furl that Banner! True, 'tis gory,
Yet 'tis wreathed around with glory,
And 'twill live in song and story,
Though its folds are in the dust;
For its fame on brightest pages,
Penned by poets and by sages,
Shall go sounding down the ages--
Furl its folds though now we must.

Furl that banner, softly, slowly!
Treat it gently--it is holy--
For it droops above the dead.
Touch it not--unfold it never,
Let it droop there, furled forever,
For its people's hopes are dead!”

Confederate Rev. Abram Joseph Ryan in his “Conquered Banner” poem:
IvanThorsgaard says2015-08-19T02:11:39.717
To nthnpark0: It is true that William Porcher Miles was an advocate of slavery and helped design the flag. But, these were southern people and slavery was widely accepted. However, the people who support the flag today are not slave owners. I’ve never met a supporter of any of the Confederate flag designs who supports slavery. And I’ve never met a person who opposes Confederate flags who has ever been a slave.

1. For you to use a broad brush and paint all flag supporters as pro-slavery bigots is no different from race bigots painting all black people with the same brush – saying all black people love fried chicken and water melon. There are millions of people who love the Confederate flag, for a million different reasons. You have no idea what is motivating them to love the Confederate flag. When the Berlin wall was being torn down in 1989, there were German citizens waving Confederate battle flags on the wall. It is moronic to paint everyone with one broad brush. The reality is that the flag “does” represent heritage to millions of southern people – at least that is what they confess. And these same people will tell you they oppose slavery. So don’t start trying to say the heritage they have in mind is slavery. Your post leaves one wondering if you just have a need to pour your hatred out on other people, and the flag supporters are your target of choice.

2. Regarding your post about the Confederate flag having been used by those who opposed the Civil Rights movement in the 1960s, I can speak to that personally. I watched my parents get involved with the Dixiecrats in Mississippi, and they pledged their allegiance to, and carried, the U.S. flag. I never once saw a Dixiecrat waiving a Confederate battle flag in a public demonstration. There might have been some present, but most Dixiecrats waived the U.S. flag. And they were not opposed to the Civil Rights Movement; they were opposed to the Communists in charge of all the Civil Rights organizations. My parents were farmers, with many black families in the community that called upon them for help when they needed food, clothing or help on their farms. My parents reached out and helped their black neighbors for as long as their lived. But then came the race-hustlers – both black and white. The Civil Rights movement was rife with Communists from the Communist Party USA and several other socialist organizations. When I was growing up, the few elderly men who kept Confederate battle flags were ardent supporters of the U.S. Constitution, lovers of free enterprise, freedom of thought and movement, supporters of freedom on all fronts, and they hated the communists trying to incorporate communism and socialism into every government program. Most were WWII veterans who had fought against National Socialism.

Those men were hated by the popular media and constantly castigated – for standing against communism and socialism. And that Confederate battle flag began to be seen by the media propagandists, and other communists and socialists as a symbol of resistance to their attempt to communize the world. And that is one of the main reasons the media and other communists hate it so much today.

If you believe in wealth redistribution, then you support slavery – because using force to take from those who grow food and give to those who don’t – in order to buy their votes and keep them dependent on the handout – is just slavery in another form.
83chevy says2015-08-26T04:21:46.743
Oh.... And BTW... ALL the slave ships were sailed under ONE FLAG. The United States of America flag... You wanna take that one down too? AAAANNND the KKK flew the U.S flag Mainly. If you REALLY think about it... Why would the U.S government be still flying the confederate flag (until the takedown) if it was REALLY just a "symbol of hate, slavery and Racism? They wouldn't be flying it if that's what it REALLY stood for...
themightyindividual says2015-10-21T17:29:30.080
How many votes are there???