20 or more years of experience with high school education and someone comes in right out of college earning more per hour. This should be discrimination. The college graduate should not make more because they went on to college. The person with more experience has to train the college graduate.
That is the real question. Many individuals are self taught, born with razor- like determination, are self motivated and goal oriented without the need to "study" these important concepts in a formal education. In today's society, its not these foundations that new students seek but rather a requirement and certain entitlement that they have been brainwashed is a necessity to succeed (most colleges are big money institutions after all). That is the reason for this debate- is it not? Hiring managers often discriminate half of the potential candidates that would be PERFECT for their various positions because of a lack of " a piece of paper". Some fields, of course may require technical degrees and no doubt a formal education makes most sense, but others positions just take common sense- is there a Common Sense course 101 out there? Studies show that we retain roughly 10% of what we are taught in a classroom setting. Most real learning is through repetition... Which one would learn where...? On the job ... Through experience.
I'm not sure how anyone can honestly justify genuinely qualified individuals getting passed over for either employment or advancement merely because they don't possess a degree. I've been around recent college graduates and seasoned veterans alike and I'll take the seasoned veteran every time. That piece of paper you have hanging on your wall that you paid thousands of dollars for and spent years acquiring means absolutely nothing to me. If you can't back up that paper with real world experience then I'll have to spend years training you to be productive in the real world, not the perfect little bubble of college. That's not to say that I'd dismiss someone simply due the fact they have an advanced education, just that I'll look more closely at their experience. Four years of college versus four years of experience, sorry, but I'll take the four years experience every single day, every single time.
And yes, any position that REQUIRES a degree, in my eyes is discrimination when not accompanied by the acceptance of a number of years of experience in lieu of and should therefore be illegal.
If you want to do right by your company and your society, you should open your mind a bit to the fact that there are people that are very well qualified in their field that don't possess a degree.
A job posting for a specific position seems to discriminate when they only look for degrees. There are people out there who are not cut out for college, yet put in years of time to gain the practical experience to perform their job functions. Now I understand Doctors, Pharmacists, etc (who go to school for a very specific skill set much like going to a trade school) needing degrees; but in corporate settings where open heart surgery is not being performed, a college degree is not necessary. The policy of requiring a college degree and not allowing for experience to offset education is discriminatory and just feeds the alumni machine (that is - hiring only people from your alma mater).
There are intelligent people in the world today who have the drive, focus and innate ability to create opportunities for themselves unlike those who have Masters and PHD's still looking for opportunities. These people start businesses just like a person who has their credentials and in many cases are just as successful as a person who obtained their credentials because they were willing to take risks. It amazes me how many people are so jealous that someone based on experience alone was hired for a position over them when they had credentials. Also, If I attempted to take ANY job I was OVER QUALIFIED for, that would tell me something about myself. People with degrees ought to be ashamed that they have reached such a high level of "success" but are not creating new opportunities for other workers in the United States. If you have a Masters and a PHD still looking for an opportunity, all you have is a world of debt and a wonder of worry.. Time to get with the program..Lol
Why should one be seen in limelight by the credentials of his education. He/she finds pleasure in the stream they are passionate, so discrimination should not have any room. Will a mother discriminate her children if one is doctor and the other is a pharmacist?..so why should others do?
And secondly an individual will be good at only the job he is associated with his education, so he should get due respect for it. If the word discrimination comes into play respect will be a word just though off. After all everyone deserves it if they are worth in their field, we cant just grab it.
I have over 15 years of experience in my career as an Accounts Payable Associate. Although I have over 50 credit hours toward my Associates Degree - due to becoming the only income earner in my household, outstanding student loans and academic institutions not offering the classes I need to complete my degree on campus or online I am frustrated that I have only been able to find employment as a temp. Recently a new associate was brought in that has a Bachelor's Degree. However this associates spends more time on their cell phone than working. The associate is perpetually late and leaves early. I on the other hand arrive on time and stay later as needed. This associate is able to earn a higher hourly wage, is eligible for benefits and gains all the glory. Because I don't have a degree I am not eligible for a permanent position even though I have been performing the duties individually and successfully for the past 10 months. Explain to me how that is fair? Also having worked in more than one type of industry each company has it's own accounting system. The credits I earned academically gave me the framework or the basis of what I need to know but experience has given me the skills I've developed along the way.
The topic is really hard to talk about - maybe just because of the society? If I don't have a degree and did not go to a well known University, does that make me less worthy? And what about if I did go to a good University, got my degree and want to find a job? One may have experience in a certain field, the other - a degree that should guarantee that you have the knowledge. But there is no guarantee in any of these situations.
Actually, it is easy to think that someone who did not go to a University was just wasting his life and doing nothing - leading a easy life and enjoying all the pleasures. But that may not be the case. The same goes for the University graduate. He should have studied hard, he should have gotten skills and knowledge - you do see his degree, don't you? But it may not mean anything, maybe he did not actually study, just went there to crawl through the examinations...
So, my opinion is that education is really important, but it does not reflect your knowledge in every situation. Yes, to be a good engineer or a doctor you must have a degree, you must go through examinations and so on. But even then... Will you be a good one? And if talking about people that are working in creative areas - let's admit, there are a lot of those, - do you think that the college or university degree is the most important in this situation? I do not. I think that even if one has it, he or she may not be as creative and motivated. Skills can be built while working and self-study.
I can tell you without hesitation that I would rather hire someone with no degree and 2 years of relevant experience than someone with a degree and no relevant experience. Now granted, having both would be nice, but a degree is not a reflection of knowledge or ability, whereas experience and success in a given field is a direct reflection of both.
I chose not to get a degree after watching many people get one along with thousands of dollars debt and not find a decent paying job. I chose a college diploma in an area of study that was in a high paying industry. I've done well and have 15 years experience now, but cannot move into Management with my company because I don't have a degree. Also, in pursuit of my PMP certification, I feel discriminated against because they require 4500 hrs experience for those with a degree and 7500 hours experience for those without a degree, yet they don't even specify what kind of degree. It all seems very presumptuous and unfair.
What will prohibit me from hiring my high school buddy who never did anything with his life, who never worked for anything, who never got an education, but he is so fun to be around? What will prohibit me from appointing him a manager to an engineering division, when all qualifications based on education are thrown out of the window? I could easily hire 5-6 of them to manage all my divisions. Will I lose people? Sure, but I can hire others. And the 5-6 buddies of mine will all be happy managing my divisions. And my boss will be happy, because my managers will be happy, and the work from those under my managers will still be done...One way or another.
You think it's not happening already? Think again...
It should be the other way around: I have managers who discriminate on the basis of educational credentials: they will avoid the MS holders, not to mention the PhDs, since they are such a threat to them. And some of them keep bringing me every idiot who got a drive-by degree from nowhere, over others with impeccable educational qualifications. You believe it doesn't matter? Think again...
They need to base hiring decisions on something. If they can't consider educational credentials then all that is left is personal presentation in the interview and activity from outside of school. A person could just join a fancy-sounding club and be very bubbly and friendly and attractive and get a job as a neurosurgeon or a nuclear scientist without knowing anything about the subject matter at all.
Discrimination occurs when someone is refused service for something they cannot control. Something like skin color, gender, or sexual orientation. We all make a choice on where to attend school, what to major in, and what degrees to pursue. If someone chooses not to hire me because of that choice, that's not discrimination.
Educational discrimination should not be illegal as some jobs do require a certain amount of education in order for the person to actually understand and complete the tasks handed to them. Without it we would have people with no education working as doctors, electricians, fire fighters, and things would not go very well.
The whole reason individuals spend (arguably) obscene amounts of money and time obtaining a higher level of education is an attempt to be separated from other applicants who did not, inadvertently displaying either some distinct level of knowledge or technical training in the area of the particular field. To consider such criteria as illegal would seem to be very problematic. For instance, would you want an architect who had absolutely no training or education to design your family home? Or if you needed heart surgery, would you rather have a surgeon with a medical degree to perform it, or just someone who claims they can do it, but admits they have no technical training or education in that area? Educational credentials in some instances should not necessarily be a discriminating factor in choosing an applicant, but in some instances it definitely should be a very important, if not the most important, factor in doing so.
I do not believe discrimination is a good thing, but it should not be illegal in this case. Some people do not have education credentials some are looking for. If this law was passed people who did not get a job would sue companies and we would have a big mess.
While it seems unfair that you can be over qualified for a position especially when no position you are qualified for is open thats life. Employers are looking for people that fit their culture during this recession many qualified individuals are applying for and taking jobs considered below them what happens if the economy improves. They leave in droves leaving their former companies to scramble for labor.
I have always valued those with experience. Sought them out for what they know and can teach me. But by the same token, who designs and develops the systems that these people have experience with? A person with education and experience is best, but lacking experience and having the education provides people another opportunity to learn from those with experience. Both are needed and valuable.
I guess the argument centres on who is the most competent to do a job. Those who are qualified versus those who are experienced. I think its both. Competence is clearly defined as those with the necessary combination of qualifications, actual experience, requisite skills and knowledge, aptitude and attitude to be do the job properly. When any single form of measure such as a qualification is used as the sole measure of a persons worth it usually vigorously defended by those who have and argued against by those who have not. I have been discriminated against because I have too many qualifications or am overqualified for the job etc. I have also not got the job because I lacked specific experience. Qualifications only demonstrate to me that 1: the individual understands that we live in a world where qualifications do form a part of the competency picture and 2: they are willing to put in the extra work to achieve them and demonstrate the necessary levels of perseverance and resolve to get there. They are not necessarily just happenstance. Those who see competence via qualification alone as a singular issues are perhaps seeing the issue through their own prism of the world and lack a level objectivity.
If you research all that is required to become a Licensed Funeral Director and/or Embalmer in most states in the US, you'll see how hard it is to become one. Those are fields where you DO NOT want any rubber-neckers or ghouls caring for a family's loved one. By making the process of becoming one somewhat difficult, you ensure that you only get the best because only the most devoted is willing to go through the whole process. Also, during the course of training, you are consequentially surrounded by other's with the same ambition. By experiencing this, an individual will adopt same specific manner and decorum which is best for the profession; they will see what type of person gives up and whom excels, and adjust their way of approaching the job accordingly.