Happy New Year DDO!Posted 5 years Ago

I'm very quickly falling into the rabbit hole of how much things have changed since I was last on the site.
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Happy New Year DDO!Posted 5 years Ago

At 1/1/2017 8:43:48 PM, SeventhProfessor wrote:
Who are you?
By the who?
It's good to see that you haven't changed a bit ;)
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Whites becoming a minorityPosted 5 years Ago

At 1/1/2017 11:20:26 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 1/1/2017 8:32:17 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 12/30/2016 9:45:53 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
White people only

Do you care if whites become a minority in America?
As a white person, why does race matter so much to you? Why even ask this question? I think your being so afraid of becoming a minority is just a subtle admission of how poorly the white majority in America has historically treated other ethnic minorities..

I don't care so much about whites becoming a minority in America, so much as I care about the free and liberalminded culture that has developed here being overridden by waves of immigrants that either refuse to or have no incentive to assimilate whatsoever. I don't believe that maintaining racial and religious diversity and maintaining the basis of our existent culture have to be exclusive ideas. That's a pretty moderate stance to take, IMO. Liberals who don't believe in any form of assimilation whatsoever are usually extremist SJWs and they exist far less than conservatives make it out to seem.


Uhh... I'm not white. I'm asking white people what they think....
Haha, woops, my bad. I assumed you were white and asking that question coming from a certain place. Regardless, Sorry if I came off as aggressive. Forgive me :p
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A conversation about RussiaPosted 5 years Ago

At 1/1/2017 11:35:42 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/1/2017 11:32:53 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 1/1/2017 10:47:27 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/1/2017 10:31:33 PM, Daltonian wrote:

We could always just form an alliance with Russia, abandoned crumbling weak NATO...

Split the world under 2 rulers. Fine by me.
That would be fine if we were to abandon our moral code entirely and any belief in human rights whatsoever..
Rights are an ephemeral construct without laws. Laws don't exist without Nations.
Okay, whatever, agreed, but that's kind of a red herring.. I think that you're avoiding addressing the clear point of what I was saying and that is very simple: Russia's "laws" (which is also misleading because the oppression and persecution that the Russian government condones and performs is largely not codified in any law) are less compatible with our morals and views than neighbouring Europe.

You're welcome to disagree with me, but I think popular opinion would dictate otherwise and I'd be happy to divulge more on that.

I submit middle eastern laws especially Sharia laws are far more the antithesis to American law than Russian law.
I do not disagree with you, but I also don't think that nullifies my grander point. Russian law, policy, and ideology under Putin is still incompatible with that of the west, and it is accordingly not in our interest to empower Russia in any way.
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A conversation about RussiaPosted 5 years Ago

At 1/1/2017 10:47:27 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/1/2017 10:31:33 PM, Daltonian wrote:

We could always just form an alliance with Russia, abandoned crumbling weak NATO...

Split the world under 2 rulers. Fine by me.
That would be fine if we were to abandon our moral code entirely and any belief in human rights whatsoever..
Rights are an ephemeral construct without laws. Laws don't exist without Nations.
Okay, whatever, agreed, but that's kind of a red herring.. I think that you're avoiding addressing the clear point of what I was saying and that is very simple: Russia's "laws" (which is also misleading because the oppression and persecution that the Russian government condones and performs is largely not codified in any law) are less compatible with our morals and views than neighbouring Europe.

You're welcome to disagree with me, but I think popular opinion would dictate otherwise and I'd be happy to divulge more on that.

You're forgetting that the Russian Government does not share our world view, whereas NATO members do.
No they don't. NATO is currently under the EU (sans England) which is no friend of America.
Why do you say this?

It is much more within American interests to be a sole world superpower at the helm of an organization of states (NATO) that share our interests and beliefs, than to split our power with a vastly different, foreign, and potentially equally powerful state that shares very little of our beliefs about liberty, freedom of expression, social justice, etc.

Again, NATO isn't our colony, and even if it were, we can't afford to subsidize militarily a colony anymore with our current spending deficits.

Pragmatically, this is all about power distribution. We want lots of it, and the stronger Russia is, the less of it we have.
Actually, most people are fine with power sharing.
Well, yes, but you're misinterpreting what I was trying to say. People are fine with "power sharing" in name but not with any of the consequences that sharing power with Russia would bring, which makes things less clear.
That does not make us friends and means we never will be. Whether or not we are actually direct enemies depends on how you weight the factors I mentioned in my prior post.
Obama sowed the seeds for a weakened USA geopolitically, it's only natural for Russia to fill the void, and it will be a financial godsend for us.
That's quite the oversimplification. There are a lot of factors, in my opinion, which lead to the modern political climate that exists between Russia and the West and Obama's reactionary political policies and presidency are one of many. To attribute anything solely to him is a conservative scare tactic..
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A conversation about RussiaPosted 5 years Ago

At 1/1/2017 10:11:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/1/2017 10:04:56 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 1/1/2017 8:45:11 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
This is a thread for liberals and conservatives to talk about Russia and how it relates to the Western world.
Is Russia our enemy? If so, why, and is there any way that we can be on peaceful terms with them? Are our values compatible with theirs? Can both coexist as superpowers?
Russia is undoubtedly not a friend to the west. Anyone who genuinely believes they are is deluded.

Whether or not we consider Russia an enemy, and to what extent, depends on your definition and vision of what the wests interests should be. Putin, as leader of the Russian Federation, has interests that quite clearly contradict "ours": he wants to restore what he considers a weakened post breakup Russia to its former glory, under a different name. The invasions of Ukraine and Georgia are evidence of this. Soon, perhaps even under Trumps administration if he does not maintain a firm stance against the Russians, we could see that expansionism extending to the Baltic States (NATO allies) and beyond. That is more directly at odds with our international interests, which are, whether you like it or not, to maintain our international influence and lessen the influence of powerful and expansionist outside states like Russia.

If you are also of the belief that the west should only ally itself with states which fundamentally respect human rights and share, more or less, our belief in ideas like fre rom or speech, expression, religion, self-determination, etc, then that would further lessen the legitimacy of Russia as ever being a friend to the west. In Russia, people who speak out against the government or who defy the Russian Governments view of what he he "ideal" citizen constitutes are persecuted and killed.

Now, I also understand the hypocrisy in that: making Russia our enemy based upon that precedent whilst also maintaining alliances with countries like Saudi Arabia is completely hypocritical, but the point still stands that objectively, it is not in our strategic interest to enable or empower Russia in any way... especially if Russia is becoming so powerful and influential to the extent that they have the capacity to influence things like our electoral processes.

We could always just form an alliance with Russia, abandoned crumbling weak NATO...

Split the world under 2 rulers. Fine by me.
That would be fine if we were to abandon our moral code entirely and any belief in human rights whatsoever..

You're forgetting that the Russian Government does not share our world view, whereas NATO members do. It is much more within American interests to be a sole world superpower at the helm of an organization of states (NATO) that share our interests and beliefs, than to split our power with a vastly different, foreign, and potentially equally powerful state that shares very little of our beliefs about liberty, freedom of expression, social justice, etc.

Pragmatically, this is all about power distribution. We want lots of it, and the stronger Russia is, the less of it we have. That does not make us friends and means we never will be. Whether or not we are actually direct enemies depends on how you weight the factors I mentioned in my prior post.
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FBI and Comey Agree: Russia Wanted TrumpPosted 5 years Ago

At 1/1/2017 9:56:31 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/1/2017 7:59:22 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 12/29/2016 5:49:59 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 12/29/2016 5:42:00 PM, YYW wrote:
At 12/29/2016 5:40:02 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 12/27/2016 3:55:16 AM, YYW wrote:
At 12/26/2016 8:48:21 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Also what's the big deal with us being friendly with Russia? Libs want love and peace... except with those dirty Russians.

If the Chinese hacked the RNC and exposed Donald Trump having sex with a 15 year old girl, would you say "what's the big deal with us being friendly with China?"

Given the state of the world today we have more in common with the Russians than almost anyone else and I think budding up to them would be beneficial to both parties.

Why on earth do you think "we" have more in "common" with the Russians than anyone else on earth?

Who is this "we" you are speaking of?

What are the traits or qualities that are held in "common"?

1. Yes I would.

You are ok with foreign countries meddling in US politics?

2. We value stability. We are not religious extremists. We value, for the most part, the status quo. We are fighting the same enemy in the Middle East. We are non OPEC energy exporters. Etc etc.

Russia can be a great ally if people stop acting like its 1965.

What is this "status quo" of which you speak?

If the "meddling" is simply dissemination of information we can't get on our own or won't share with the people then yes sure. The more public info the better. We have a right to know.
You're being misleading. Russia's interest is not to enable the spreading of free information to the American people; the Russian interest is to have someone who is more easily manipulatable and a borderline Russian puppet in office. That is, someone will be more amenable to doing things that align with Russian interests (the appointment of a SoS like Rex Tillerson is first evidence of this).

Russia did not intervene with the best interest of Americans in mind, or with some morally righteous goal to make sure Americans had access to all of the relevant information and facts surrounding both candidates.

They clearly and objectively interfered selectively, and disseminated information selectively, in such a manner which would serve to benefit THEIR national interests, and not ours. Even if you're claiming that ours and theirs national interests are aligned, that is absolutely unacceptable, and to claim otherwise is to prioritize your individual political interests over the grander sovereignty of America as a state.

The post-WW2/post Communism world order based around US-Russia super power status and UN Security Council. The fact that we don't want all the chaos bubbling up to spill over into our spheres of influence.

They can be the best ally for stability we have in the world. That's why they're fighting for Assad. Syria as a failed state benefits no one.
Okay, sure, believe that the USA and Russia should become allies. The fact does not change that as a sovereign state, the American people should have made that decision on their own, not under the guiding hand of Vladimir Putin.

The fact that Trump supporters are so deluded as to support Russian interference in our electoral process as a "good thing" speaks volumes as to how blinding this wave of anti-establishment fervor is. Even most higher-up Republicans are not denying the role the Kremlin played is unacceptable and setting a dangerous precedent for our electoral process; it is the deluded conservative base that is blind.

Welcome back :)
Thanks :) I'm looking forward to speaking to everyone again.

I'd been lurking for a while lately waiting for the right time to become active again, and the far right conservatives posting here were too unbearable for me to remain silent, lol. I don't understand how people can be so blinded by unconditional support for a very clearly flawed candidate and the accordingly flawed electoral process which ascended him to the presidency... sigh...

How has you and everyone been? Are most people who were regular contributors here a year or two ago still active?
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A conversation about RussiaPosted 5 years Ago

Apologies for any typos. I'm on mobile.
Forums Home > Politics

A conversation about RussiaPosted 5 years Ago

At 1/1/2017 8:45:11 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
This is a thread for liberals and conservatives to talk about Russia and how it relates to the Western world.
Is Russia our enemy? If so, why, and is there any way that we can be on peaceful terms with them? Are our values compatible with theirs? Can both coexist as superpowers?
Russia is undoubtedly not a friend to the west. Anyone who genuinely believes they are is deluded.

Whether or not we consider Russia an enemy, and to what extent, depends on your definition and vision of what the wests interests should be. Putin, as leader of the Russian Federation, has interests that quite clearly contradict "ours": he wants to restore what he considers a weakened post breakup Russia to its former glory, under a different name. The invasions of Ukraine and Georgia are evidence of this. Soon, perhaps even under Trumps administration if he does not maintain a firm stance against the Russians, we could see that expansionism extending to the Baltic States (NATO allies) and beyond. That is more directly at odds with our international interests, which are, whether you like it or not, to maintain our international influence and lessen the influence of powerful and expansionist outside states like Russia.

If you are also of the belief that the west should only ally itself with states which fundamentally respect human rights and share, more or less, our belief in ideas like fre rom or speech, expression, religion, self-determination, etc, then that would further lessen the legitimacy of Russia as ever being a friend to the west. In Russia, people who speak out against the government or who defy the Russian Governments view of what he he "ideal" citizen constitutes are persecuted and killed.

Now, I also understand the hypocrisy in that: making Russia our enemy based upon that precedent whilst also maintaining alliances with countries like Saudi Arabia is completely hypocritical, but the point still stands that objectively, it is not in our strategic interest to enable or empower Russia in any way... especially if Russia is becoming so powerful and influential to the extent that they have the capacity to influence things like our electoral processes.
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Whites becoming a minorityPosted 5 years Ago

At 1/1/2017 8:40:46 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 1/1/2017 8:39:12 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 1/1/2017 8:23:31 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 1/1/2017 6:58:18 PM, Peepette wrote:
At 1/1/2017 2:28:33 AM, Reformist wrote:
At 12/31/2016 4:05:23 AM, Peepette wrote:
At 12/31/2016 3:49:13 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 12/31/2016 3:47:50 AM, Peepette wrote:
At 12/31/2016 3:24:55 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 12/31/2016 3:08:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 12/30/2016 9:54:30 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 12/30/2016 9:45:53 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
White people only

Do you care if whites become a minority in America?

As long as we get to colonize space first, the Earth can burn.

What is your serious answer?

I mean, let's get real, 3rd world cultures wouldn't even immigrate here if whites were not here. Since apartheid isn't feasible, then exodus is the only logical answer. White flight is a real thing.

But what is the fear to flee based upon?

Ask any of the syrian refugees.

Oh yes the rhetoric that a few bad apples spoil the whole barrel. With over a million people immigrating to anywhere ( white, brown or of any specific religion) there is a statistical probability that some crime will occur. If I were in a war torn country and near by countries were not friendly to my particular religious sect or I could not find work or have the ability to feed may children, I too would immigrate to a stable secular nation for safety. Common sense would dictate how I wish to survive.

Why would you want more muslims, potentially terrorists, into this country. Their way is not compatible with ours


At one time the Chinese who immigrated during the gold rush, Jews in the 1920's and Irish Catholics were considered incompatible with our culture.

Islam is not compatabile with our democracy because its not democratic. Its about enslavement
Anyone who has studied religion in an intellectual setting knows this is objectively wrong. Extremist, fundamentalist Islam is not compatible with our democracy. Neither is extremist Christianity, for that matter. Religion is so dependent on interpretation that to label an entire group of people incompatible with democracy based on a religious demographic is absurd.

There are swathes of moderate, respectful Muslims in this country that you never hear about or are ever forced to think about because, put simply, they are ordinary people. Are you saying that Syrian refugees who fit that definition deserve no sympathy or empathy whatsoever simply because of their religion and heritage? I would hardly call that a very "Christian" stance to take.

What is the lifestyle that muslims have however? Their women are put in headscarves and terrible clothing to subjugate them.
Maybe in some oppressive hellholes in some areas of the Middle East they are, but for Muslim women who receive a liberal education in more developed countries, this is completely untrue. How come when a Muslim woman in America chooses to be devout and wear a veil, she is oppressed, but if she were to become a nun, she is enlightened and spiritual?

Obviously, hijab and becoming a nun have very clear differences but the point stands that at least in America, they are both equally the woman's choice. It's frankly quite sexist to allege that any woman who chooses to practice Islam must only be doing so because she was forced to by a man..

And all of this is ignoring the elephant in the room that huge proportions of Muslims women don't even wear the hijab. In Gambia, a very devout Islamic state in Africa, no women wear hijab. Are they suddenly no longer oppressed? In Turkey, Malaysia, and elsewhere, it is actually illegal for Muslim educators to wear any hijab or religious garb with the goal of encouraging young women to make their own religious choices. Are you seriously telling me that's an oppressive environment?

Hell, in Syria, face veils (Niqab) are banned from being worn in educational institutions. You are objectively wrong here.
Not only that but the refugee increase has raised rape rates 90 percent and crime by an exorbiant level
Germany's 'open the borders to them all' approach and relative geographical proximity to the Middle East makes their situation totally different than ours. We are more than capable of screening and selecting refugees who are much less likely to commit crimes like those. Take Canada, for example: they've accepted dozens of thousands in less than a year and their crime rates have seen no immediate or dramatic shift like in Germany, because of their screening process.
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