Christians: where do you fit best?Posted 3 years Ago

At 8/8/2015 9:26:26 PM, Logical-Master wrote:
At 8/8/2015 1:59:56 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
brother and sister Christians.........since Im still pretty new here Im trying to get to know some of my fellow & sister Christians a little better, I find you all interesting and fascinating and love you all. So if you dont mind I would like to know what Church you favor?

As long as everyone's nice, the atmosphere is lively and pastor follows the word of God, I'm okay with that church.

what denomination?

Non-denominational.

how often do you attend?

Most of the time, weekly.

and why'd you choose your particular Church.

Why not?

What do you like bestest about it, or least?

Asked and answered.

I'll go first, I attend Unity Church here in Santa Cruz. After I got Saved about a year and a half ago I 1st began going to a local Charismatic Church. Wow. great people, lots of Power of God their, but in the end it was a little over the top for me, so at the urge of a friend I went with her to Unity where she was going for years. been there ever since, and am going to their Ministry school next October. I like Unity because its warm and welcoming, very upbeat, we play music, do a lot of prayer for people, and also do alot of community work. Good Works is a big part of Unity's beliefs.
Thank you and God Bless!

Sounds like a great church! I'm happy to hear that!

Logical-Master Good to meet you...
You said.. As long as everyone's nice, the atmosphere is lively and pastor follows the word of God, I'm okay with that church.

I MUST ASK.....
Logical-Master Who decides; What "the word of God" is?!
There is such a diverse idea among people as to "What the word of God" is.
Thousands and thousands of churches; ALL, every single one, claims to teach the word of God.... All claim to be the truth.. Not two teach the same things ?????

Logical-Master ALL, (again) get their truth, their teaching from the same bible!!??
Forums Home > Religion

Proving a negativePosted 3 years Ago

At 8/8/2015 5:47:17 PM, missmedic wrote:

FACT: Jesus claimed to be God. Either he was a nut or he was really God! The fact thousands and thousands considered it worth dying for there belief in the Man/God Jesus speaks volumes!

Millions believe in Santa, what dos that tell you?
That millions can all believe in the same thing and be wrong. Even the morality of the factious Santa is better then your Jesus, Santa says be good for goodness sake (the best reason to be good), Jesus says be good or burn for ever. If you choose not to believe in Santa you still get presents. If you don't believe in Jesus you will be burning for ever.

sheskew You are NOT a religious person... But claim to be intelligent .. When it comes to PROVING a negative, the quest cannot start off as a negative. You have placed it in the category as a "NEGATIVE" before you start!

First you must prove Jesus is a NEGATIVE!
FACT: There was a man named Jesus, he claimed to be God!

Santa was a real person... "Saint Nicolas" embellished!

Jesus was a real person!
missmedic Please give me an example of "millions can all believe in the same thing and be wrong."

You prove NO THING.. Nothing!!! Just this... Millions of ATHEISTS can be wrong!

missmedic Millions can also "BE RIGHT"!! NOW YOU ARE BACK A SQUARE ONE!!!

Your words.. Jesus says be good or burn for ever.
NO.. Jesus WARNS: "Be good because; Your choosing NOT TO LOVE is your CHOICE", CHOOSING not to live in heaven where ONLY those who LOVE are living forever!
Jesus is WARNING: "By CHOOSING not to love is to chose Satan!"

Adam was removed from heaven because Adam did not love!! Adam made a choice!! No one can force anyone to love!!!

Jesus gave us his all... Completely... Perfectly, total perfect LOVE! No one forced him to give his life up for us. He did his father' will.
missmedic Jesus loves you so much he died for you! Taking your place in death, so you can live forever! Death is NO More. The question is NOT "Will I die?", it is "where will I spend eternity!?"
Forums Home > Religion

Proving a negativePosted 3 years Ago

At 8/7/2015 3:56:45 PM, sheskew wrote:
At 8/7/2015 2:29:57 PM, Dogknox wrote:
Jesus was also a real person!!! Recorded history says so!!
The others were never real people they are non-existence!! How to prove it...? Recorded history; if there is only scriptures or religious beliefs then these people were never in existence!

Respectfully, I must point out that there is no reason why an incorporeal entity that claims to have created the universe would need to also be a historical person. Within the Christian mythos, God was still God before he incarnated as Jesus. Zoroaster and Shiva do not need to be born as humans and recorded in secular documents for the Zoroastrians or Hindus to take them as real, any more than Yahweh needed to do so before the ancient pre-Christian Jews would take him as real.

Further, recorded history shows the existence of a human being named Jesus. Only "scriptures or religious beliefs" record Jesus' resurrection and miracle-working. It's also worth noting that there are numerous other historically established persons who are reputed to work miracles and/or be a god of some kind, including Siddhārtha Gautama, Kim Il-Sung, Sai Baba, Haile Selassie I, the first 123 emperors of Japan, and many others who are much more obscure.

I bring these people up not to diminish your faith but to emphasize my trouble in "proving a negative". I am someone who practices no faith. I am confronted by scores of claims of divine spiritual beings, some formerly human, others not. At a minimum, most or nearly all of these claims are false. Quite possibly, all of them are false. How can I prove a negative? How can I establish which of these invisible beings is not real?

FACT: There was an historical Jesus!
There was NO historical Zoroaster and Shiva

FACT: Jesus claimed to be God. Either he was a nut or he was really God! The fact thousands and thousands considered it worth dying for there belief in the Man/God Jesus speaks volumes!

sheskew You are NOT a religious person... But claim to be intelligent .. When it comes to PROVING a negative, the quest cannot start off as a negative. You have placed it in the category as a "NEGATIVE" before you start!

First you must prove Jesus is a NEGATIVE!
FACT: There was a man named Jesus, he claimed to be God!
Forums Home > Religion

Proving a negativePosted 3 years Ago

At 8/7/2015 2:40:14 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/7/2015 2:29:57 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 8/6/2015 5:48:05 PM, sheskew wrote:
At 8/6/2015 5:20:49 PM, Dogknox wrote:
I agree.. but: The modern conception of Jesus.. has roots in documented history!
The modern conception of Santa Claus.. has roots in documented history!
The modern conception of "Christianity"..has roots in documented history!
I am not sure about... Zoroaster and Odin and Shiva these could be in a different category ... Maybe "Fairy tail, wives tale"!?

Absolutely, Jesus and Santa and documented. Zoroaster and Shiva are all well-documented in the holy texts of Zoroastrianism, and Hinduism. Odin is less well-documented, but that's primarily because he was the chief god of the Norse pantheon and the Norsemen of the time were largely an illiterate people. It is well-established through archeology that he was sincerely worshiped as a deity by people who genuinely believed in his existence.

Now, Santa's an easy example to disbelieve in because we have good historical scholarship to tell us that he's an embellishment of an ordinary person. But Zoroaster and Shiva are currently worshiped now by people who are quite certain that they're real and that Jesus is not. And while the worship of Odin has died out, the Norsemen of the time would no doubt have been highly offended if you told them their god was a fairy tale.

How would you prove the non-existence of Shiva to a devout Buddhist? A buddhist will tell you that Shiva is formless, transcendent, and limitless. He could certainly appear to you if he wanted to, or communicate with you through personal revelations, but there's no way you can check and see if he's really there.

sheskew Thank you for your post..
I reply..Yes Santa is an embellishment of an ordinary person. There was a man named "Nickolas" a real person!

Jesus was also a real person!!! Recorded history says so!!
The others were never real people they are non-existence!! How to prove it...? Recorded history; if there is only scriptures or religious beliefs then these people were never in existence!

Recorded history shows us an itinerant Jewish preacher that was at thorn in the side of the Roman empire. The only place you'll find your Jesus of Nazareth is in the historical fiction called the New Testament.

I reply.. WRONG!!!
........................................................
Wikipedia
modern scholars who work in the field largely agree that Jesus himself did exist historically
............................................................
Forums Home > Religion

Proving a negativePosted 3 years Ago

At 8/6/2015 5:48:05 PM, sheskew wrote:
At 8/6/2015 5:20:49 PM, Dogknox wrote:
I agree.. but: The modern conception of Jesus.. has roots in documented history!
The modern conception of Santa Claus.. has roots in documented history!
The modern conception of "Christianity"..has roots in documented history!
I am not sure about... Zoroaster and Odin and Shiva these could be in a different category ... Maybe "Fairy tail, wives tale"!?

Absolutely, Jesus and Santa and documented. Zoroaster and Shiva are all well-documented in the holy texts of Zoroastrianism, and Hinduism. Odin is less well-documented, but that's primarily because he was the chief god of the Norse pantheon and the Norsemen of the time were largely an illiterate people. It is well-established through archeology that he was sincerely worshiped as a deity by people who genuinely believed in his existence.

Now, Santa's an easy example to disbelieve in because we have good historical scholarship to tell us that he's an embellishment of an ordinary person. But Zoroaster and Shiva are currently worshiped now by people who are quite certain that they're real and that Jesus is not. And while the worship of Odin has died out, the Norsemen of the time would no doubt have been highly offended if you told them their god was a fairy tale.

How would you prove the non-existence of Shiva to a devout Buddhist? A buddhist will tell you that Shiva is formless, transcendent, and limitless. He could certainly appear to you if he wanted to, or communicate with you through personal revelations, but there's no way you can check and see if he's really there.

sheskew Thank you for your post..
I reply..Yes Santa is an embellishment of an ordinary person. There was a man named "Nickolas" a real person!

Jesus was also a real person!!! Recorded history says so!!
The others were never real people they are non-existence!! How to prove it...? Recorded history; if there is only scriptures or religious beliefs then these people were never in existence!
Forums Home > Religion

Proving a negativePosted 3 years Ago

At 8/6/2015 4:46:55 PM, sheskew wrote:
Dogknox, I think the point that Burzmali is making is that the non-existence of observable things can be proved. For example, if you say "What have I got in my pocket?" I can check your pockets. If they are empty, I can comfortably reply "You have nothing in your pockets." We all implicitly understand that anything that can be stored in a pocket can be seen and touched, and thus an empty pocket is evidence that nothing exists in it.

Contrast that with the modern conception of Jesus. There is no expectation that Jesus is ever perceptible to the five senses. We cannot go look for Jesus and find him in a particular place. A key source of the skepticism of atheists is that this "non-findability" is an attribute that Jesus shares only with imaginary beings. Santa Claus and Zoroaster and Odin and Shiva are also non-findable and not perceptible. You would probably agree that all of these latter entities are not findable because they are not real, would you not?

sheskew Good to meet you...
I agree.. but: The modern conception of Jesus.. has roots in documented history!
The modern conception of Santa Claus.. has roots in documented history!
The modern conception of "Christianity"..has roots in documented history! A religion with historical roots back to a Man/God! Christian a follower of Christ!

I am not sure about... Zoroaster and Odin and Shiva these could be in a different category ... Maybe "Fairy tail, wives tale"!?
Forums Home > Religion

Proving a negativePosted 3 years Ago

At 8/6/2015 4:51:54 AM, Burzmali wrote:
Yes, a well-defined claim can be demonstrably negated. And every time anyone defines their god in an unambiguous and testable way, that god is shown to not exist. The more experienced theist debaters realize that, of course, which is why they shrink their definition of god to something that isn't currently testable. That usually means "the intelligent cause of the universe" or some such.

Burzmali Good to meet you...
I reply: You ignore the obvious!

Jesus is God!
Forums Home > Religion

Proving a negativePosted 3 years Ago

At 8/6/2015 3:36:19 AM, Skynet wrote:
Why is this in the religion forum? Because this is where these fallacious arguments pop up the most. That and Science, because the two forums are pretty much the same, so often.

Yes, you CAN prove a negative. I've used a similar example before:

"Mom! The Monster from the Black Lagoon is under my bed!"

"No, son, he's not. He was just a made up character in a movie."

"Uh...can you look anyway? Just to make sure? Please?"

"No, son, I can't prove a negative. That's a logical impossibility. Go to sleep." *click*

OR

"Honey, have you seen my wallet? I think I left it on top of my dresser, on the right side against the wall. Can you look and grab it for me, please?"

"I don't think you left it there."

"You know where it is?"

"No."

"Ok, well can you check the dresser? I'm pretty certain I left it there. I remember seeing it when I got up."

"Lloyd, I really don't think it's there."

"OK...well can you at least look to make sure it isn't there?"

*sigh* "You KNOW I can't do that."

"What are you talking about? I'll finish getting the kids ready to go, just please look on my dresser to make sure it isn't there, then I'll at least know it got moved."

"What do I look like, a magician? You prove to me it IS there before I go look!"

On the other hand, you can't always prove a negative.

"Hey. Larry."

"Yeah?"

"So, last night, I got abducted again. It was the Greys this time."

"O....K..."

"You don't believe me?"

"It just seems very unlikely."

"Oh yeah, well can you prove aliens don't exist?"

"No D.J., I can't. It is possible they exist. But I don't believe you were abducted."

"Alright, prove I wasn't abducted."

*sigh* "I just want to eat my lunch, OK. Just one, normal, quiet lunch is all I ask."

"You can't prove I wasn't, Larry."

"Well I guess you got me there."

Skynet You cannot defend your BELIEF saying "there is NO God" by Science!
Defending beliefs in the supernatural is not established beyond reasonable doubt that they don't exist, by Science.
Scientific investigation starts out with questions! Many questions cannot be answered so are they also NEGATIVE!? You have jumped to a conclusion without any PROOF! You have assumed "God is NEGATIVE"!

Questions are the start they are never the ending!
You BELIEVE there is NO God!! You QUESTION the existence of God! At best this is all you have got... Your Question!
Forums Home > Religion

Is the soul immortal?Posted 3 years Ago

At 8/2/2015 5:24:52 AM, tstor wrote:
At 8/2/2015 4:56:58 AM, Dogknox wrote:
I am not going to respond to anything that deals with the trinity. If you wish to discuss it, simply start a new thread or PM me.

The Soul is immortal..... Scriptures tell us... "Eternal Punishment"!
The Early >CHRISTIANS< tell you Eternal Punishment!

Scriptures tell you.. "Jesus destroyed death!"
Scriptures tell you.. "Only LOVE is in heaven"!
There is NO death so all live forever, in heaven or in Gehenna!!!!

2 Corinthians 4:18
So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.

Souls are eternal....
tstor QUESTION: Can you see your soul??! Be truthful!!!

Mark 9:43
If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.
45 And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell.
47 And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell,
48 where

""the worms that eat them do not die,
and the fire is not quenched."


QUESTION: Does the worm die?!
QUESTION: Is the fire put out? (quenched)

Isaiah 66:24
"And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."

tstor ...... worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched
Forums Home > Religion

Is the soul immortal?Posted 3 years Ago

At 8/1/2015 6:37:10 PM, tstor wrote:
At 7/31/2015 8:41:46 PM, Dogknox wrote:

I reply: Jesus is God, he destroyed death! All spend eternity in Heaven or eternity with Satan in damnation! Death is no more.... Can't die!
That does not answer the question.

tstor Arius is NOT Christian; he rejected Jesus as being just a man.. Like you, he did not believe in Jesus! You are NOT Christian you reject what Christians have always taught and believed!
We have to start at square one.
I believe that Jesus was a man. You believe he was a God. See the difference?
I believe in Jesus, obviously. If you think I don't then you have not read anything I have said. Except they have not always taught that. I already showed you a link that states this.

Pointing to Arius and the difference between him and Christians puts it into perspective. He was removed as a Heretic. Right from the "Get Go" your beliefs are in question because of your roots to Arius! Your corrupted Bible and the Watch Tower remove any doubts a person might have had about you being Christian! That being said.... "Christians have ALWAYS taught and believed Jesus is God!" & Christians have always taught and believe the "Soul cannot die"!
It does not matter what you think of Arius. He has no meaning in this topic. Neither does the Watchtower. And no one cares who you think is a Christians.

I point to scriptures.. You reject the scriptures.. "Like Arius"!
I point to the Early Church writers..You reject them also.."Like Arius"!
I point to documented History.. You reject history also!
I have only used scriptures to prove my points. You have not. I have shown you proof of early Christians rejecting the trinity.

I reply: I did consider it.. "Briefly" scriptures put me right... tstor THE SCRIPTURE PROPHESY SAYS... "AMONG YOU" will come false teachers!!!! EXACTLY what has happened... The Prophesy PROVES Arius is a False teacher!!!
Or maybe you are under the influence of the false teacher. See, anyone can point fingers.

YOU pointed out.. The topic is the immortal soul, yet you have only talked about four things this whole time:
1) hellfire
2) translations
3) Arius
4) JWs


The soul cannot die.... Proof is in the scriptures... Matthew 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

From my answer springs up to life these topics.. 1) hellfire 2) translations 3) Arius 4) JWs
Your answer does not bring up those topics, you brought them up. I already refuted Matthew 25:46.

tstor You have NOT refuted Matthew 25:46! Word for word.. "ETERNAL PUNISHMENT" is just that.. Punishment forever!

Scriptures are very clear... "From AMONG Christians will come "False teachers"! Arius was a Christians, he was AMONG Christians until he taught "Jesus is NOT God"!
tstor Arius was removed from among the Christians, his teaching was pronounced Heresy!
His False teaching was; "Jesus is NOT god" the same teaching you believe is the same teaching of the False Teacher Arius!
tstor Arius' teaching PROVES you are NOT Christian, you reject what Christians have ALWAYS believed for the teaching of Arius the heretic!

tstor You have NOT shown any proof of anything!! All you prove is you believe the teaching of NON Christians! You believe what Muslims believe you believe the same as Satan believes! Muslims are NOT Christian!

You said.. It does not matter what you think of Arius. He has no meaning in this topic. Neither does the Watchtower. And no one cares who you think is a Christians.

I reply: It does matter! It proves the Watch Tower is a lie! It proves you reject the scriptures (2 Peter 2:1-2) and it proves you reject what Christians have ALWAYS taught and believed!

If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck and looks like a duck .. Then it is a duck!
You are NOT Christian, you reject scriptures thus God, for the heresies of false teachers!
Forums Home > Religion