what is "artistic and literature value"?Posted 10 years Ago


Since everything can be considered having artistic value, how can anything be considered obscene then?

Actually the Miller test mentioned in the OP has 3 parts, and the part refered to defines a work as obscenity if it lacks of "serious artistic value". Everything might be considered to have some artistic value if you really think that way, but much fewer can be claimed to have serious artistic value. The people who make that judgement have also been defined - "reasonable to a person of the United States as a whole. The national reasonable person standard of the third prong (the artistic value check) acts as a check on the community standard of the first two prongs, allowing protection for works that in a certain community might be considered obscene but on a national level might have redeeming value."

The definition from Wiki has the answers to the OP:

"The Miller test was developed in the 1973 case Miller v. California.[2] It has three parts:

Whether "the average person, applying contemporary community standards", would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest,
Whether the work depicts/describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct specifically defined by applicable state law,
Whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value.[3]
The work is considered obscene only if all three conditions are satisfied.

The first two prongs of the Miller test are held to the standards of the community, and the last prong is held to what is reasonable to a person of the United States as a whole. The national reasonable person standard of the third prong acts as a check on the community standard of the first two prongs, allowing protection for works that in a certain community might be considered obscene but on a national level might have redeeming value."
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what is "artistic and literature value"?Posted 10 years Ago

The cigarette smoker might be better off even if the habit is risky (smoking can cause lung cancer) since the reward is better. It's all about risk vs. benefit. In any event, watching pornography does not cause health problems.

Your personal system is that one is better off. However, this definition encompasses all forms of entertainment people demand, so it's really not sufficient. It would render the definition of obscene moot, since everything can be considered having artistic value.

Being 'better off' vs merely 'feeling better' are two distinct and often opposite concepts. You have pointed out that people may feel better in the examples given, but they are not better off, in many cases, a smoker will admit they feel worse off even immediately after the cigarette. I might feel better eating two tubs of icecream and bags of chips, but I'm better off if I go for a run instead.

In the case of pornography, it does not cause health problems (actually it does if you engage in indiscriminate sex in the way often depicted in porn), but the way sex is depicted in pornography is often degrading to one or both genders, so it fosters unhealthy attitudes. I did point out that sex can quite easily be good art if it is a pleasure shared between two people, often bringing them closer together.

Some people take the view that anything that piques any sort of emotion has artistic value. Similar to your view that anything that carries enjoyment has value. My own opinion, which is down to personal choice, is that the only worthwhile art works are those that leave the people who have experience them better off, better individuals, better members of their community, worthier members of the human race.
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what is "artistic and literature value"?Posted 10 years Ago

A person who smokes a pack of cigarettes is better off if he/she enjoys cigarettes.
If we assume persons try to maximize their happiness, and are willing to spend time and/or money, there is no reason to suspect that a person is not better off from an action. After all, who is a better judge then oneself on what is 'best' for you?

Again, I would not agree that a destructive habit has value even if the indulger feels (temporarily) better. But as I said before, how I judge art is my own personal system. I could understand why other people would not see eye-to-eye. It goes beyond appreciating art to the personal choice of values and character. Whether you see life as a race for enjoyment or a chance to be all you can be. Who can judge what is best for you? At the end of the day, only your judgement should matter, though you can bet everyone else will judge you too.
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what is "artistic and literature value"?Posted 10 years Ago


In all forms of entertainment, people watch it to be 'better off'. Unless a person has buyer's remorse, a person receives utility from watching it. Pornography is no different.

No, they may be relieved, they may have found temporary escape, they may have found validation for unhealthy attitudes, but they are not better off. Any more than a person who buys and smokes a pack of cigarettes is better off.
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what is "artistic and literature value"?Posted 10 years Ago

Not much into art myself, but I think he was trying to say when the purpose and outcome of the work is only to mindlessly titillate rather than stimulate consideration of the subject, then it is obscene.

I've adopted a rather simplistic view towards judging what is good art - it's not hard at all to make 'art' which shocks, stirs up drama and emotion and keeps people interested. Any shock jock can do that. The way I judge art (whether a picture or a song or a music video or a movie) is whether it leaves the person who has just experienced it a better person or a worse person. Good art is the one that leaves people better. A sex scene can easily be good art if it's an act of pleasure shared by two people, porn just has a bad name because the industry doesn't do it right and it's almost always degrading.
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Using real info on online profilesPosted 10 years Ago

Well here's the thing...the name I found was slightly different. But the important part was that the high school you graduated from was also listed, so a stalker could then go find the graduation photos and verify the real name that way. On the other hand, if you've put both a fake name and a fake high school - you've just proven my point as to why you should never use your real details. Thanks

You found my high school which I've listed in several posts.
My real name, good for you, Dark and Korashk could have just as easily said it at any point. Oh and I also have the url to my facebook in my profile, not the actual thing, but when I say "I am teh King Blargzorz" if someone were to google either "King Blargzorz" or "Blargzorz" you could probably find my facebook which has no privacy settings.
Like I said.
I don't care, I'm more in fear of a CC# lifter of getting my card cause I'll lose $50 out of that. And guess what? That's out of my control even though I know exactly how it happens, yet you don't see me walking around paying for everything in cash. I don't see what the point of this topic is except for you to attempt to "strike fear" in people. You've come to the wrong place. We're all much too tech-savvy, too smart, or in some people's cases, you know who you are, too stupid to give a gqddamn about your fvcking pointless ventures. So while you're over there janking to some gayboy butt s3x I hope you realize, nobody loves you, your life is pointless, AND I HAVE MORE PENNIES THAN YOU ARE WORTH

Oh... and it's my birthday.

lol well Happy Birthday then.
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Using real info on online profilesPosted 10 years Ago

Your words.
They mean nothing.

If you say so, MM

Mitchy Moonts.
That is the name that you know.
And that is the name that you will blindly follow into the depths as it was generated by my friend, by the last name of Smith.

Well here's the thing...the name I found was slightly different. But the important part was that the high school you graduated from was also listed, so a stalker could then go find the graduation photos and verify the real name that way. On the other hand, if you've put both a fake name and a fake high school - you've just proven my point as to why you should never use your real details. Thanks
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Using real info on online profilesPosted 10 years Ago

At 2/12/2011 11:03:10 PM, zGodMode wrote:
At 2/12/2011 10:31:49 PM, What_Does_It_Do wrote:
Look.
NOBODY CARES.
Also, I'm not your buddy, guy.

Yep, these statements are all verified on on-topic

Your words.
They mean nothing.

If you say so, MM
Forums Home > Technology

Using real info on online profilesPosted 10 years Ago

Look.
NOBODY CARES.
Also, I'm not your buddy, guy.

Yep, these statements are all verified on on-topic
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Using real info on online profilesPosted 10 years Ago

At 2/12/2011 10:10:13 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 2/12/2011 8:25:57 PM, What_Does_It_Do wrote:
At 2/12/2011 7:13:54 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Who cares if some anonymous user is single, straight, Latino, etc.

They don't have your real name, your passwords, your criminal record, your social security number, date of birth, email, etc. (At least based on the info I provided on my profile.)

Maybe Sean, but I already had your name,

LMAO. There's probably tens of thousands of Seans in the U.S. and thousands of Seans in Nevada.

picture,

Yeah, the side of my head, not that it matters anyway.

. music

Useless.

and state in under an hour. Imagine what a professional stalker could do in a few days.

Uh, yeah, the very fact that I'm even on the internet gives them access to my IP address so it's really useless trying to hide the rest.

Actualy SS, I have your last name too. I just didn't post it.
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