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911 inside job

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/18/2013 Category: Science
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,080 times Debate No: 37896
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (8)
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I have debated debunkers before, each time they avoid the strongest parts of my argument and instead rely on argueing about other things which are not related , like heroin came into the last argument... :D .







Really dude? Another 1? This is getting to the point of ridiculousness and I only accept this as a means save others from dealing with you. But ill play your game. Ill bite. I'm of course an open minded person and if you can actually give me something that beyond the shadow of a doubt proves your theory then I will accept that. So far I have not been impressed. So bring it on mate. Lets see what you got.
Debate Round No. 1


Well if you read carefully the other debates noone refute the science of my arguments. The video above clearly shows incendiary devices, you are a military man you should have seen thermite grenades before.
Why on earth is there molten steel flowing from the tower , the video clearly shows it.
JET FUEL CANNOT MELT STEEL, it doesnt matter if you believe in conspiracys or whatever, science is science and there is no explanation for the temperatures seen .


Alright well I guess this one will be pretty simple. I'm guessing your wanting to keep this short since your only going to be arguing 1 single point and since your first argument was only a paragraph long. So Ill break my argument up into two segments. In this round I will not present any evidence or facts or counter arguments but instead, will ask you just a few questions. Since almost every truther theory is based on the "just asking questions" thing, I think this will be appropriate. Next round will be the one where I actually bring forth my arguments. Now there's just one thing I want to bring up here before I begin and that's just that in the future rounds Id like to see a little more, anything really, out of you. As the instigator of this debate burden of proof usually falls to you and you really haven't made any argument whatsoever or provided any proof. I'm not being an arse here just giving you some friendly tips to help make you better for future debates. You showed us a video and said "that's molten steel and it proves that 9/11 was an inside job." Ok well... how, exactly? How do you know that's molten steel, how does molten steel prove that incendiary devices were used, how does any of that prove that 9/11 was an inside job, where is the proof, the evidence, the facts. These are the things you need to tell the audience. Makes a much better argument then "here's a video, see the sparks and orange liquid stuff, it proves 9/11 was an inside job." Once again, how?

Any how, on to my questions.

Q1. You say that this is molten steel and that the only way that there could have been molten steel is if there was some sort of incendiary devices, most likely thermite, to cause it. So my main question is if this was true and thermite was used. Why in the hell would they put it all the way up at the place where the planes impacted? What purpose would those devices serve up there? I know your a fan of the "controlled demolition" theory so why would they need to use them all the way up there? Would the devices in the basement area not serve the purpose? How would they have been able to place these devices all the way up there without anyone noticing?

Q2. Why do we only see sparks and such in places where the impact area was? Why not all over the building? Are you suggesting that they were able to plan EXACTLY where each plane would hit and only placed the devices in this area? And were somehow able to remote trigger these devices at their whim the exact way they wanted it to?

Q3. This ones pretty simple. As of September 2001. Were there any devices whatsoever that would allow thermite to cut through a vertical column? Do you know what thermite is and how it works?

Q4. If controlled demolition was their plan the entire time to make the towers collapse what was the purpose of the planes??? Seriously why wouldn't they just plant the incendiary devices and then claim that the terrorist did it? They could have easily done this and the results would have been the exact same except now there would be far less things for people like you to come up with. Seems like a pretty big mistake to make epically for this group that apparently are the masterminds of the greatest cover up in human history and are probably geniuses in order to think and pull it off. Your telling me they didn't plan ahead and see these little intricacies that some collage kid on you tube could see? Not buying it.

Q5. You said "The video above clearly shows incendiary devices,"
Could you please tell us how? I watched it several times and still haven't been able to find the thermite device on there. Could you circle where you see it and show it to us? Caused unless you can see the actual device then no, this video does not "clearly show" anything.

Q6. How do you know this is molten steel?

Well that will just about do it for me as of now. Like I asked earlier, please just put a little more effort in your next round. Otherwise this just wont be all that fun.
Debate Round No. 2


The material’s glowing color showed that its temperature was close to “white hot” at the very beginning of the flow and “yellow-orange” further down. Iron-rich spheres in the WTC dust are additional proof of temperatures above the melting point of iron.

According to the law of Black body radiation

"All matter emits electromagnetic radiation when it has a temperature above absolute zero. The radiation represents a conversion of a body's thermal energy into electromagnetic energy, and is therefore called thermal radiation. It is a spontaneous process of radiative distribution ofentropy.

Conversely all matter absorbs electromagnetic radiation to some degree. An object that absorbs all radiation falling on it, at all wavelengths, is called a black body. When a black body is at a uniform temperature, its emission has a characteristic frequency distribution that depends on the temperature. Its emission is called black-body radiation."


for example

"The temperature of a Pāhoehoe lava flow can be estimated by observing its color. The result agrees well with measured temperatures of lava flows at about 1,000 to 1,200 °C (1,832 to 2,192 °F)."

Therefore we can estimate the temperature of the material flowing from the south tower.

Because its white hot we can estimate the temperature to be 1100 to 1200 degrees celcius

At this temperature even if the material was aluminium , steel would have melted due to that temperature proving that molten steel was present.

NIST knows this and thats why they claim that the material is aluminium mixed with organic products which aluminium which somehow made it look yellow or orange in color.

However when adding organic materials to metals they do not dissolve into each other, this has been proven in experiments where aluminium was melted with organic material , the organic material obviously burnt off instead of melting and dissolving with a liquid metal .
No one has been able to recreate the orange/yellow color of the molten material with the use of aluminium and any other metal,organic substance or other substance.

A good explanatory video is found here

Two types of explosives were used .
There were Incendiarys which were used to melt the steel columns around the plane impact.
The second explosives were nanothermite which are explosive in nature and not incendiary.
To blow up the building they needed it to look like a pancake collapse, so they melted the steel beams causing the failure of the columns around where the plane hit this made the collapse look the top of the building was falling and crushing the lower sections. Synchronised explosives then did the rest.
Interestingly Fireproofing upgrades were done on the exact floors where the columns failed shortly before 911.

Q2. Yes the fireproof upgrades give weight to that theory. Although they could have placed the deviced all over the building .

Q3. That depends who you ask? A debunker would say no, but keep in mind that if i were getting bombed 50 years ago by a stealth bomber it wouldnt mean that I really didnt get blown up because that technology didnt officialy exist as it was classified at the time.

Q4. Becuase terrorists couldnt access the towers and place so many explosives, also the pychological effect of flying the plane into the towers was immense. How many times do they repeat that video on TV of the plane hitting the tower.
The planes were used to coverup the demolition of the towers and an excuse as to how the buildings collapsed.

Q5. The video shows molten steel which is the product of an incendiary known as thermite.



Hello again. Id just like to say real quick that I'm terribly sorry but I have been extremely busy and beyond tired over the last few days so this next round is going to be way shorter then I wanted and a bit rushed.

Alright lets get started.

"Because its white hot we can estimate the temperature to be 1100 to 1200 degrees Celsius"
This is a bit of a problem because we cant know for 100% certainty what that temperature was. Some people, like you for instance, say it looks white hot and others think it looks less. I for one think it looks more yellowish in color and a good view of that would be at 00:07 of your video. That would put the temperature to around 900-1050 ish. In either case what we don't have here is direct indisputable proof of molten steel. So this does not prove anything.

"No one has been able to recreate the orange/yellow color of the molten material with the use of aluminium and any other metal,organic substance or other substance."
This just isn't true. While it is true that aluminium, in its pure uncontaminated state at a certain temperature, does burn silvery in color there has been tests that show that at higher temperatures and with contaminants that it will turn yellowish and even come close to orange in color. Please see this following website for study.

On to the questions you answered.

Q1"There were Incendiary which were used to melt the steel columns around the plane impact.
The second explosives were nanothermite which are explosive in nature and not incendiary"
This makes no sense. Why would they use 2 separate types of thermite? If they've already melted the columns what's the point and as I stated before there is no way they would have been able to know where exactly the plane would have hit in order to accurately in place the thermite. This idea that regular thermite was used in the upper floors also negates your nanothermite theory because with the nanothermite at least you had some explanation of how it was hidden from all the employs. Someone would have notice thermite charges in their building. If not that they would have noticed the holes in the walls or the freshly over plastered spots in the walls or something. You cant just in place vast amounts of thermite charges in a busy skyscraper without someone noticing. I would also like to contest the theory of nanothermite since there is no proof whatsoever other then theory's that nanothermite existed at the time. Also no form of thermite explodes. Thermite burns. This also debunks the claim that people heard explosions prior to the collapse. You have also missed a crucial part of the thermite theory and that is that thermite can NOT burn through a vertical column. The fireproofing upgrades are hardly grounds for evidence of a conspiracy and the idea that the nanothermite was inside the material and applied in secret is just silly.

Q2 Again someone would have noticed and this just doesn't add up. Why place the charges all over the building? They could have simply placed them in the bottom of the building and it would have been find.

Q3 No proof or evidence was given.

Q4 They wouldn't have needed to place them all over the building just in the basement. And our security isn't all that great. They could have easily played the scenario I gave. I agree that the planes hitting was extremely emotional. But a bomb in the basement still would have brought down the towers and still would have gotten their point across.

Q5 As I said earlier this is not proof of molten steel as all we have here is individuals perception of what they see. And more people say nay on the molten steel then those that say thermite. Also even if this was molten steel it still isn't direct indisputable proof of thermite.

I'm sorry but that's really all I have time for, I'm literally falling asleep as I type this. I had a lot more planned out for this round but I guess Ill just have to save it for the next one.

Debate Round No. 3


At temperatures of 900 - 1050 we know that it couldnt be aluminium but rather a eutectic mixture of molten iron and sulphur.This is because sulphur reduces the melting point of iron to 980c .Sulphur is a component of thermite, used to reduce the melting point of iron .

Aluminium melts at 660C at which temperature is looks silvery

The problem with concluding that the liquid flowing from the tower’s 82nd floor could have been aluminum is that the liquid in the tower was not confined in a container so that more heat could be applied to raise the temperature of the liquid above its melting point. Instead, as soon as the metal liquefied it flowed away from the heat source under the force of gravity. Therefore, the color of the liquid flowing from the 82nd floor was at approximately the melting point of the metal. And therefore, it was molten iron.

Here is a video example of aluminium being heated in a container to 980c or 1800 F...

As you can see the aluminium cools rapidly to a silvery colour, as metals are a great conductor of heat.

The molten material flowing from the south tower even remains orange yellow during its whole descent indicating that the material was not molten aluminium but rather a melted metal at 980c.

Ironically for debunkers NIST knows this and agrees that the molten material is not pure liquid aluminium, and have hypothesised a different scenario to make the aluminium orange yellow...

"11. Why do some photographs show a yellow stream of molten metal pouring down the side of WTC2 that NIST claims was aluminum from the crashed plane although aluminum burns with a white glow?
NIST reported (NCSTAR 1-5A) that just before 9:52 a.m., a bright spot appeared at the top of a window on the 80th floor of WTC 2, four windows removed from the east edge on the north face, followed by the flow of a glowing liquid. This flow lasted approximately four seconds before subsiding. Many such liquid flows were observed from near this location in the seven minutes leading up to the collapse of this tower. There is no evidence of similar molten liquid pouring out from another location in WTC 2 or from anywhere within WTC 1.
Photographs, and NIST simulations of the aircraft impact, show large piles of debris in the 80th and 81st floors of WTC 2 near the site where the glowing liquid eventually appeared. Much of this debris came from the aircraft itself and from the office furnishings that the aircraft pushed forward as it tunneled to this far end of the building. Large fires developed on these piles shortly after the aircraft impact and continued to burn in the area until the tower collapsed.
NIST concluded that the source of the molten material was aluminum alloys from the aircraft, since these are known to melt between 475 degrees Celsius and 640 degrees Celsius (depending on the particular alloy), well below the expected temperatures (about 1,000 degrees Celsius) in the vicinity of the fires. Aluminum is not expected to ignite at normal fire temperatures and there is no visual indication that the material flowing from the tower was burning.
Pure liquid aluminum would be expected to appear silvery. However, the molten metal was very likely mixed with large amounts of hot, partially burned, solid organic materials (e.g., furniture, carpets, partitions and computers) which can display an orange glow, much like logs burning in a fireplace. The apparent color also would have been affected by slag formation on the surface."

However as Dr. Jones demonstrated by experiment that organic material floats on the liquid aluminum and burns up (oxidizes). Further, the liquid aluminum in this experiment was never heated to the point where it no longer appeared silvery. This experiment gave the expected result. Organic material would not change the color vs temperature behavior of aluminum.
The conclusion of this analysis is inescapable. The liquid metal was molten iron...

If any debunkers can show how to make aluminium orange yellow while getting it to flow from a building. Then officially this will be debunked.

investigators are looking into the leasers of the floors where the thermite reaction took place and are finding strong links between suspected insiders and the floors leased, the leasers have financial ties to israel , bush , military companies that make thermite etc.
Kevin Ryan has done alot of research on this subject please read his books or papers to get more of an idea.

Thermite was used to melt those steel columns where the collapse initiation took place.The rest was done by nanothermite.
Nanothermite is 1000x more explosive than TNT .
In fact Nanothermite is touted as the explosive of the future
'Nanothermite is the explosives of the future. "Smaller, cheaper and nastier" LANL (Los alamos national laboratory)

Knowing where to put the thermite was because they knew exactly where the plane would hit because it was automatically hijacked via remote control .

Because they needed the collapse to look like it was caused by the planes and not the explosives.They did have explosives at the bottom of the building as witnessed by william rodriguez , a hero who saved many lives on 911 witnessed bombs going off before the plane hit, and witnessed people blown up in the basement

Its impossible to prove exactly what things the US military has classified, but whats know is its alot, and they dont just release all there best explosives on the internet for their enemies to see and copy.

The security company that provided security was owned by g bushs cousin and they removed bomb sniffing dogs days before 911, has multiple powerdowns and suspicious activitys going on the weeks prior to 911, plenty of oppurtunity to place thermite.

Q5 . No one can explain what molten material is flowing from the south tower if it isnt molten iron. Aluminium theory is a fantasy not backed by any experiemental evidence and impossible to recreate the nay sayers have their chance to melt some coca cola cans and try it for themselves.
Molten steel is proof of temperatures far higher than possible from office fire jet fuel etc.

Steel tested by fema shows thermite again...

Molten iron spheres were found in the dust proving molten iron, they had the chemical signature of thermite, including sulpur.

Nanothermite was found in the dust .



I'm really sorry but once again this is going to be short and quick. Way to busy for this.

Q1. Because these super masterminds of pure evil that just pulled off the greatest inside job of all time are going to leave a freaking financial paper trail to the leasers that planted their thermite that could be lead right back to them??? NO. Also Israel? Really. Your going there?

Thermite is non explosive as I already said. It burns. And as stated no device existed to cut a vertical column.

"Knowing where to put the thermite was because they knew exactly where the plane would hit because it was automatically hijacked via remote control ."
Sorry but I'm not even going to respond to this. I'm sure anyone with minimum mental capacity will understand why.

Q2. Right... Witnessed people blown up in the basement. Which he would have had to have been in in order to see that. The basement. Where the bombs were going off. Where the huge building collapsed. Yeah....

Your entire argument of why they would have flew a plane into the building, put thermite in the basement AND on top of that for some unreasonable reason put thermite up on the upper floors, magically having the future seeing ability's to know EXACTLY where to put it so that it's right at the impact of the plane, which is impossible, makes 0 sense and follows no logic whatsoever. It's almost as if you people are pulling this theory out of... A hat and willing it to be so that it helps your thermite theory. Because you guy's theory's are so illogical that when you see one you might get away with you cling to it like pythons. This time it's the molten steel one. You think there's molten still up there but the OBLY way that could be true is if there's thermite up there so you've willed this wild theory, even though it makes no logical sense, into existence.

Q3. I see this as a concession. You have no proof or knowledge of any of these things. But who knows what could exist. The military could have aliens in Area 51, Spartans from halo on the moon, Nazi zombies, spawn, and a cloning facility dedicated to making an army of scarlet johanssan sex clones for Marine Corp recreational use (please god let that one be true). Now my point isn't that these things don't exist cause how are we supposed to know. They may very well exist. However saying that they could exist just cause anything a possible and who knows what the military has secret is NOT proof nor evidence of anything and must be dismissed.

Q4. Well I don't know anything about bushes cousin but the dog sniffing this is a flat out lie. See below source for details but the common lie is that the dog sniffers were removed the day before and during the attack. This is kind of illogical sense the in placing of the amount of thermite you are suggesting would have taken weeks of work so why didn't the dogs sniff it then and don't try and say they couldn't, but also the fact that the security was still there. Some time prior to 9/11 a threat by phone was made on the WTC. Due to this threat extra security was added which included several K-9 teams. After several days of working 12 hour shifts and no bombing the threat level was lowered and the extra security was removed. This included the majority of the K-9 teams HOWEVER the standard level of K-9 units was STILL PRESENT. Confirmed to be true after their bodies were pulled from the wreckage. So that while thing is a flat out lie. Another case of truthers twisting facts to indulge their deluded fantasies.

Q5. Aside from the fact that that whole bit was completely plagiarized from that article, as well as your entire bit before Q1 I might add, no big deal to me but anyway it has been recreated and I already posted a source for that. Also the "thermite found by FEMA" untrue and inconclusive.
Debate Round No. 4


Once again as I said before with all my 911 debates CON avoids the science which prove thermitic reactions did take place and relies on there only argument which is 'how did they put the bombs and get away with it argument'
Science proves that there were explosives.
Your belief that they couldnt have gotten away with it is irrelevant to the scientific evidence.
Who or how they put the explosives in is irrelevant.
We can only theorize as to how.
Anyway great circumstancial evidence has lead to another set of suspects in the wtc attack.

Q1. Do you see them in jail?, these people have the media and military in their pocket .We know who they are , we know they are criminals but they dont care.

Nanothermite is an explosive!
Thermite is an incendiary.
By changing the reactant size in a thermitic reaction the reaction rate can be modified between incendiary and explosive.
This is important because you can time an explosion, one of the great advantages of the use of nanothermite is the ability to control the speed of the reaction . A steel beam could be cut in a timed fashion which would be beneficial in the destruction of the towers as the building had to look like a natural collapse.

Here is a video of someone with a homemade device that cuts vertifcal column.. lol homemade but the US military couldnt invent such a device.They invented invisibility cloaks and remote control insects but something like a vertical thermite cutter is just too unbelievable .

Here is a video of a vertical thermite cutter, they do exist and not so hard to make either.

Remote hijacking
Considering remote control was around since the days of Nicolas Tesla I dont see how the theory is farfetched.

Since 1959, NORAD personnel have been installing remote control units in a variety of aircraft and remotely controlling those aircraft in sophisticated aeronautical maneuvers, including combat practice. See "Thwarting skyjackings from the ground," written by Alan Staats for Facsnet, and posted on October 2, 2001. (Facsnet is an education service provided for its reporters by Associated Press.);
(Look at paragraph entitled "History on remote control.")

"Controlling the aircraft from the ground is nothing new. The military has been flying obsolete high performance fighter aircraft as target drones since the 1950s. In fact, NORAD (the North American Air Defense Command) had at its disposal a number of U.S. Air Force General Dynamics F-106 Delta Dart fighter aircraft configured to be remotely flown into combat as early as 1959 under the auspices of a program known as SAGE. These aircraft could be started, taxied, taken off, flown into combat, fight, and return to a landing entirely by remote control, with the only human intervention needed being to fuel and re-arm them."

Re-read that final sentence in the above quote:

"These [NORAD] aircraft could be started, taxied, taken off, flown into combat, fight, and return to a landing entirely by remote control … "

Given over 40 years of institutional experience, flying remotely controlled "suicide" jets into the World Trade Center towers would have been a piece of cake for NORAD. This information puts NORAD's failure to protect our skies on September 11, 2001 in a new light.

Former German Minister Von Buelow Already Knew About Remote Control. In his interview with the German daily "Tagesspiegel" on January 13th, former German Secretary of Defence Andreas Von Buelow made the following statement:

"There is also the theory of one British flight engineer: according to this, the steering of the planes was perhaps taken out of the pilots' hands, from outside. The Americans had developed a method in the 1970s, whereby they could rescue hijacked planes by intervening into the computer piloting [automatic pilot system]. This theory says, this technique was abused in this case..."

Not quite so much a theory as might first appear. When I released the above report about "Home Run" remote control in October 2001, I mentioned that one European flag carrier was aware of the technology, though at that precise point in time I thought it prudent not to name the actual airline:

"As long ago as the early nineties, a major European flag carrier acquired the information and was seriously alarmed that one of its own aircraft might be "rescued" by the Americans without its authority. Accordingly, this flag carrier completely stripped the American flight control computers out of its entire fleet, and replaced them with a home grown version. These aircraft are now effectively impregnable to penetration by Home Run, but that is more than can be said for the American aircraft fleet..."

The European flag carrier which completely stripped the American flight computers out of its aircraft was Lufthansa, the German national airline.
Bearing in mind his former posts as Secretary of Defence and Minister of Science and Technology, Herr Von Buelow would have known all about this mammoth but secretive task.

How very clever (and discreet) of Von Buelow to sort of "drop the information" into the middle of an interview about the 9/11 attacks! 1

Hacker uses an android to remotely attack and hijack an airplane

Remote hijacking is a plausible theory especially when no pilot has managed to recreate the flight paths taken by the unskilled hijackers in a virtual flying training machine.

Q2. he was in the basement and rescued like 30 people from the building before the building collapsed so yea if you dont want to believe a hero like this man your really stupid .

As I explained thermite is an incendiary used for cutting or weakening steel, this was used on the upper columns to make it look like a natural collapse otherwise the building would look like it had been blown up randomly.
We have to theorise how the explosives were put there , what we know is that they are there. Thermite is not a theory out of a hat its because they have found unexploded and exploded thermite , evidence of molten steel with evidence of sulphidization etc etc.

The only explanation for the molten steel shows evidence of extreme temperatures, actually as hot as the surface of the sun.
Where do these temperatures come from the only explanations would be incendiary devices or some nuclear device. Jet fuel and office furniture cannot i repeat cannot explain the temperatures found.

Neither does it disprove that the US has many classified military projects and technologies. Linear thermite cutting devices are not so unimaginable as spartan nazis or whatever your fantasys with scarlet johanssan are, I would prefer jessica alba please.

The dog was only present in the parking lots, whether or not it has any relevance to the placing of bombs however is unknown.

CONS source Rational wiki also denies the nazis were responsible for the burning of the reichstag, If you want to read a pro nazi source like this which seems to think that conspiracies never happen because theres no proof a nazi set the fire in the building go ahead.


Fema found steel samples which had melted and had been attacked by sulphur, molten steel + sulpur = evidence of thermitic reaction.FEMA said it was a mystery a mystery which has not been answered by NIST, the thermite theory however provides a solid explanation for the finding of sulphidized steel .



ararmer1919 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by truther1111 5 years ago
no one voted, ? what happened ...
Posted by truther1111 5 years ago
david john if you proved that there are people out there who dont agree with Dr steven jones, however you didnt touch the science at all . With this logic gallelio must be wrong too.
Posted by ararmer1919 5 years ago
Again id like to apologize for lacking these last two rounds. I'm busy as hell and really just don't have the time id like to put full effort into this.
Posted by truther1111 5 years ago
excuse me how?
Posted by davidjohn1994 5 years ago
Well, you managed to lie right off the bat Truther. I pretty much extinguished your "scientific" argument in our debate.
Posted by davidjohn1994 5 years ago
Well, you managed to lie right off the bat Truther. I pretty much extinguished your "scientific" argument in our debate.
Posted by truther1111 5 years ago
molten aluminium is silver..
Posted by Ameliamk1 5 years ago
It's molten aluminum from the plane, which melts at around 400 degrees. Also, thermite doesn't explode.
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