The Instigator
backwardseden
Pro (for)
The Contender
ellian
Con (against)

A pregnant mother 21 shot and killed - yeah right- yet again another reason why god cannot exist

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ellian has forfeited round #2.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/17/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 969 times Debate No: 116663
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (7)
Votes (0)

 

backwardseden

Pro

There is absolutely no possible way that god according to the horrific bible exists unless you believe in pure 100% hate and evil.

Today with headlines reading here in Orlando (where else) "Pregnant woman killed, 2 kids wounded in Pine Hills shooting, sheriff says"
Now this supposed christian god is good for only two things... 1. Hate. 2. Evil.

Religion is and was created to explain the unexplained. Then through the unexplained comes power, then fear and then comes control. This christian god is giving all the power to the killer to take the life of the pregnant woman. And obviously there's the absolute fear that the killer instills. Of course with that fear there is the almighty control of the subjects and in this case the death of the pregnant woman and the fear he decimated, oh yeah that control with the surrounding subjects as two kids were also wounded.
god KNOWINGLY created this killer knowing what was going to happen trillions of years in advance which is 100% pure evil and hate. Well that's only true IF and only IF god is god.
god KNOWINGLY created this pregnant woman TO BE SHOT AND KILLED and knew what was going to happen trillions of years in advance. Of course that's only true IF and only IF god is god which is 100% pure evil and hate. This god also knew that that two kids would be wounded by some bullets trillions of years in advance which is 100% pure evil and hate that is IF and only IF god is a god.
god KNOWINGLY created the families, friends and loved ones to grieve, and who knows how long they will grieve as there's no time limit on grieving, and this god knew that this was going to happen trillions of years in advance which is 100% pure evil and hate that is IF and only IF god is a god.

Oh and oh yeah with a very big "duh" sign pinned to those who believe - there's proof that your god even exists.

One thing that is for sure is that ALL guns from around the world are needed to be gotten rid of. No exceptions. None. Its a step in the right direction, just as ALL religion is, that is IF and only IF you want worldwide peace. There are a few other things that need to happen.

Rules:
Prove that YOUR god is a good guy and does not give the go-ahead in allowing others to kill each other and is a loving god. DO NOT bring in the "free will" issue. I'm really tired of that truly idiotic lame argument. Free will does not exist if you believe in YOUR god. Besides, you'd only hurt yourself here especially as free will favors and empowers the evil and hate, just as your god wants it.
ellian

Con

Why can't God exist? "Don't use the free will argument" okay but, why not? Does it bother you that free will is a good reason? You said that religion was made up to explain what could not be explained. Maybe that's true...actually it really was made to explain the unexplainable and that's the thing. It ACTUALLY DOES explain the unexplainable. Some people that believe in God make some wrong decisions. They're called sins. Just because we're able to make all these sins...just because God let us create all these sins doesn't mean he wants us all to be devoured in evil. It doesn't mean he wants to let evil happen. It's all just a test. A test of what kind of souls we have and all these sins that we make teach us lessons. It's really if you want to learn from them or not. Why would God want evil to strike out? You think God would do that intentionally? God doesn't make mistakes, God has done what God has done for reasons you can't understand. Just don't forget God also created good. If he wanted evil to take over, why would there be good? Good can overthrow evil. Remember that.
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Pro

It is very typical that you a 17 year old, just joined debate.org and is phenomenally naive about the world that surrounds him. Absolutely god can exist, atheists don't deny it we just don't believe it, but its up to you to prove it - and that's only true IF and only IF you believe that this creature is 100% pure hate and evil as YOUR bible shows. Do you really want to use the Free Will argument? No you don't unless you believe in hate and evil wins every single time. OK so be it.

You show me or anyone where in the bible, anywhere that YOUR christian god says something to the effect of "I the LORD thy god grants man free will." The fact of the matter is, is that it doesn't exist. Not anywhere. So in fact your god does NOT grant you Free Will of any kind. Period. But in truth, I hope you find it because then that would mean that YOUR bible hypocritically contradicts itself YET AGAIN for the thousandth time or so with all of its inconsistencies, because there so many verses that prove that god does not, by any means, grant Free Will. Now here"s some vidies that proves that YOUR god in no possible way grants man free will. PAY CLOSE ATTENTION.

http://www.youtube.com... - Video 1. All Knowing god verses Free Will: The Greatest Religious Contradiction
http://www.youtube.com... - Video 2. Free Will With god
http://www.youtube.com... - Video 3. god Favors Evil
http://www.youtube.com... - Video 4. god allows Free Will?

Tracie Harris: "Your question was regarding free will as an argument for allowing suffering. That's when you get into the problem of evil. Now the problem of evil as we all know is not an argument that demonstrates that no god exists or that god exists. What it demonstrates is that god is your god is an a$$. What she's telling you is she believes in a god, and I assume she worships this god? Its like is she 'happy' about her god?" Caller: "Oh oh yeah everything except for the old testament." Tracie "In other words what she is saying is 'I love this god who believes that the free will of the rapist is more important than the free will of the child being raped. That I think that its worth it to have a child be raped because I really really put a high value on a rapist's free will.""

"When she dies does she get to go to heaven? If she gets to go to heaven will she be happy? And she"ll probably say "yes". And you say "Will you be able to choose and do anything you want while you are in heaven?" And she"ll say "yes." And so you are basically saying "you"ll have free will in heaven?" So you have free will in heaven and no one is being hurt, raped, so you can do anything you want and no one gets hurt. If god has that power in heaven, he must have that power on earth. So he"s chose not to set that condition/ toggle switch which means he"s a dick." Phil Ferguson

"Could god have made the world and not suffering? And if they say "no" then he"s not all powerful. If they say "yes", then why didn"t he? Its a constant thing. There"s multiple ways to come at it." Phil Ferguson

So you see, there's no good "reason" for Free Will IF you believe in YOUR god. We as atheists happen to not believe in YOUR god, so we have free will and it happens to be very good and we follow our hearts for the most part. But that's not what this is about. So let's move on and get to the heart of the matter.

"It ACTUALLY DOES explain the unexplainable." Well that's 100% false because not one god from any religion has been proven to e true. Not one.

"Some people that believe in God make some wrong decisions. They're called sins." Atheists don't sin because we do not believe in your god. And you really don't sin according to your bible either because it really is quite confusing as it cancels itself out.
Does every man sin? Yes. There is no man who does not sin (I Kings 8:46; see also 2 Chronicles 6:36; Proverbs 20:9; Ecclesiastes 7:20; and I John 1:810) No. True Christians cannot possibly sin, because they are the children of God. Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is a child of God.. (I John 5:1). We should be called children of God; and so we are (I John 3: 1). He who loves is born of God (I John 4:7). No one born of God commits sin; for Gods nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God (I John 3:9). But, then again, Yes! If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (I John 1:8)
Sin? Lets use Homosexuality as an example as christians call it a sin? Really? According to what? The bible doesn"t say anywhere in the bible that its a "sin". Try harder. Nor does the bible say anything at all against gay marriages. And the words "gay" and "homosexual were not inserted into your bible until 1946. So try harder. The biggest sin is to go against god. Now if god were in the slightest bit genuine, in which we all know better that he's not, he---couldn't---care---less. Its like you using a bad word when you were young and your mother washing your mouth out with soap. Big whoop. But god has this frail fragile thing called an "ego" which is sandblasted all across the bible which means he's imperfect. And since he's imperfect it means he should not be bowed down to nor idolized, nor worshiped.
But the biggest sin there could possibly be - ever - of all time..................... since I will not believe in god, I am going to be denied a place in heaven by that simple little gesture. Well goodie for me, all the more reason for me to - never - believe in the monstrosity that is YOUR god, not mine.

What value do you place on sin, or if its not your view, it"s the bible"s. Let"s look at some examples... On a 1 to 10 scale...
*Homosexuality which has never done you any harm to you must = a 10
*no other gods before me must also = a 10
*shall not make for yourself a graven image must also = a 10
*take the name of the lord your god in vain must also = a 10
*remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy must also = a 10
*god ensues slavery and the beating of slaves so that must = a 10
*god loves raped women so that must = a 10
*god can justify his many genocides which would mean the killing of innocent babies, children and pregnant mothers which is extremely, excessively, unreasonably, and is foolishly contradictory and hypocritical = a 10
*god knowingly hates children = a 10

Raping, beating and torturing a child must = a 1 because children do not have a voice in the bible, to SCREAM. They get to say nothing. Their mouths are glued shut.
The abuser who is raping, beating and torturing a child must also = a 1 because there's no relevance into doing harm to a child in the bible.
In no way does god believe harmony, love, care for each other because otherwise peace would have already been achieved = a 1

If you do not see the horrific details behind YOUR religion, god and bible, and its fatalistic flaws and how valueless they are, then you are completely gone into another non existent universe. But then again, you like the typical christian, have probably not even picked up your bible and read past page 1

Matt Dillahunty "What is sin and why should I care about it? (That"s a very good question.) I don"t give a damn about sin. And that"s because I am not stupid enough nor ignorant enough to believe in a selfish self centered god so I have to look over my should every second of every day and worry about something that is completely meaningless such as sin) I understand why I should live an ethical life and treating people in certain ways, we have secular foundations for moral systems. But sin from the christian perspective is a crime against god or god"s nature itself - right? If god makes the rules and you violate it, that"s a sin. Well what if god makes a rule that you should kill your child, does that make it good? Caller " Yeah that"s where I do things that are not aligned in what the bible says." Matt "Yeah. But are they good things? Do you have good reasons to have that the things you are doing are not immoral? Like do you have an example? Like don"t confess to a crime or anything. For example the bible is opposed to homosexuality. Do you think there"s something immoral about those who are homosexuals?" Caller "Uh there"s none that I can think of." Matt "Yeah me neither. And so if the bible"s opposed to it add the bible is the word of god, and the Koran is opposed to it as well and the Koran is supposed to be the word of god as well, and there are two holy books and let them argue over who god is and what god thinks and until they can come up with a sound secular justification for homosexualiy being immoral then I don"t need to pay their views any money because its just an opinion at that point."

"It's all just a test." Pathetic. If god is god, he already knows what the outcome is long before that test is taken. So-what's-the-point? It doesn't solve anything. "teach us lessons" Um nope. Especially no to a child who's daddy as an example is punching his daughter age 4 in the face and sticking you know what inside of her sometimes twice per week for 15 years. There's no lesson a child can possibly -ever- learn from suffering and pain. That includes you. "You think God would do that intentionally?" Of course, otherwise he would 100% put a stop to it. Nah. He LOVES it. God doesn't make mistakes," Oh really? The entire RD1 proves he does. "God has done what God has done for reasons you can't understand." Well gee, maybe you don't understand, and you cannot even prove he even exists! Wow. "Just don't forget God also created good." Oh and oh yeah this god of yours wiped it out with the great flood wiping out ALL LIFE - right? The perfect genocide. Saving 2 of each species doesn't count sorry. "If he wanted evil to take over, why would there be good?And what good was there under the OT? "Good can overthrow evil. Remember that." Yeah and we don't need a god to do it.

Next round I'll give you a morality test
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Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@Considerthefollowing - Well if this supposed god doesn't know everything and thus does not know what will be happening, then this god is not in any way a god. AND this god obviously loves pain and suffering, especially among children in which the bible clearly points out that he hates. Truly sick, warped and demented. Damn right if this god is in any possible way caring, kind and considerate, he would stop ALL pain and suffering. NAH.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@What50 - Well if bad people find christ, oh yeah they get to go to heaven. If good people don't find christ, they go to hell. Thankfully and goodie for me I will never find or look for christ.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@DylanTheGreatk - You cannot even prove that heaven exists. So you suffer for nothing. And what does suffering teach you, a child, except for nothing? Suffering doesn't teach you that you are worthy of anything. I get it. I really do. So what you are saying is that your dad or mom should backhand you across the face (a very violent thing) every single day so you can be shown the doorway to heaven which is supposed to be a very peaceful place. Wow don't you see what a true hypocritical contradiction that is and that there's no possible way you can make sense of it? There is no sense in suffering especially when it comes to children.
Posted by Considerthefollowing 3 years ago
Considerthefollowing
Dude I am just saying if god knew everything that was going to happen, then free will would be an illusion.
Also if he is so powerful he should have stopped it.
Posted by What50 3 years ago
What50
That doesn't make sense for a god. Why would a good god kill a good person? The whole thing goes, why are good people getting punished in Earth and bad people are getting away with their crime. Sure they might go to hell, but that doesn't make sense for an omnipotent, all loving, good god.
Posted by DylanTheGreatk 3 years ago
DylanTheGreatk
Suffering tests us to see if we are worthy for heaven and god gave us free will to do stuff like that
Posted by asta 3 years ago
asta
Good luck backwarsden.
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