The Instigator
ShadowCorbin
Con (against)
The Contender
zekromthepokemon
Pro (for)

Abortion? (anti = is bad)

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zekromthepokemon has forfeited round #3.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/25/2018 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 931 times Debate No: 111648
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (13)
Votes (0)

 

ShadowCorbin

Con

No matter what the circumstance, unless the mother and baby will die, abortion is bad, and if you are religious it is even worse. If you are raped or incest has occured what happened is horrible, everyone agrees, but the baby did nothing wrong, and it doesn't deserve death. There is no greater love than to give thy life for a friend. Many people who are pro choice, even and especially people that have children say they would give their life for their kids, and I agree they should, but then I ask why not their unborn baby, and they reply, "The child is unborn, why would I give my life for it?" I ask why does it matter if it had been alive for three months, or it won't be born for another three. The answer is always the same, it isn't a kid yet. I want to ask a question, if you kill a pregnant women you get two murder charges, why, because the baby has life, then what grounds do you have I ask, to kill that baby? If I go around and snap unborn children's necks, do I not get charged with murder? A pro choice man asked me once, "What about a three hundred pound white rapist's baby?" To that I reply, the baby is a baby, would you kill a kid because they are a boy and not a girl? Also, if you think a women sees that kid and thinks about being raped, a very heavy percentage will say, yes, they think about being raped, but they love that kid more than anything in the world. Also, why do people think pro-choice and pro-abortion are different things, One is saying YOU SUPPORT ABORTION, and the other says you SUPPORT THAT WOMEN HAVE A CHOICE TO ABORT A BABY, what's the difference, even more so if you are a man and there isn't a kiddo in you? Please explain if there is a difference, I would really like to know. The point of this debate isn't to argue, or to make everyone anti abortion, but to find the truth and come to a consensus as to what is right no matter the time spent debating.
zekromthepokemon

Pro

Well, for me I've always been pro-choice. There is no doubt that babies are living things in the womb but, that's not really important. A lot of things are alive but, we give no care to them. bugs, weeds, microbes, are all irrelevant to us despite being living things. That's not to say a fetus is as insignificant as some of those things, it's just to explain how life doesn't equate to right to live. Sentience is the hallmark of life and to our knowledge fetuses have very little. The closest they've really come is having brain waves but, even a common dog has those.

On the topic of dogs we have euthanization. A painless death for an animal that is almost never done for malice. You could argue that we shouldn't euthanize dogs as well but, not many do simply because dogs are nearly a commodity. We love dogs, we value dogs, and they do many things to enrich or even improve lives however, that doesn't mean that gives a free license for every dog to be apart of this world.

I admit it is a bit morbid to compare dogs to fetuses but, I always believe that at the end of the day it should be a woman's choice to bring a baby to this world. It's their choice to roll the dice and see if they can bring someone to change this hunk of rock.

While there is the option of adoption that isn't really a perfect a solution. If the argument was only focused on the child and the parent was a non-factor then I'd be pro-life everytime. Unfortunately, the world is more complicated than that. The life of a foster child is difficult and having to live with the guilt of giving up a baby for them to be subjected to that flawed system is too much for some. So, it's hard to really look down on someone for taking that choice instead. Neither is really good or bad and trying to police someone for essentially a lose-lose situation isn't right.
Debate Round No. 1
ShadowCorbin

Con

I will ignore the bugs the weeds and microbes, and no they are not as important as a human life, and neither are animals, we love them like family, but they aren't us. Deep down we all have the mindset to preserve human civilization, and that presents a problem with the argument. Any person would almost always save someone in their family over a stranger or distant friend. The problem comes as you think first and foremost of the people closest to you, and when you try to compare them to a stranger or animal or any other thing with life you have more compassion to what's closest to you. Euthanasia is not part of the debate I will ignore that or if you want to start a seperate debate on that I will join it. When you say the baby had no higher functioning brain, that is true for the time, but remember a child's brain isn't fully developed until it is five or six. Also think most animals can take care of themselves almost immediately, while children develop no sense of fear until age five. Also if we say the child has no guarantee for life because it's brain is operating on a low level (while better than a coma patient) someone who is in a coma is unconscious and will not respond to voices, other sounds, or any sort of activity going on nearby, but a baby responds to many factors such as hunger, the mothers fear, and outside activity that like a coma patient, it cannot see yet it responds too(like a scary movie we cover our eyes and ears, yet we are still scared.)
You were right in saying adoption is not a perfect solution, but also remember killing it isn't either. The problem with adoption is many people cannot afford it because it is government run and requires much upkeep driving prices up. You need to see though there are many private adoption services which have little fee other than remember, you raise the child, but the adoption itself costs almost nothing. Yes the life of a foster child is difficult I had a close friend that went through a foster home. The situation isn't perfect, but at least they will get to live.
This kind of boils down to the fact that while some have different opinions, everyone should have a right to life. If i kill someone because I feel it is best I would kill a lot of people, that sounds rough but I am making a point.
zekromthepokemon

Pro

Not sure why you're talking like I said microbes, or weeds or bugs are on the same level as importance as human life. I even said "that\s not to say a fetus is as insignificant as those things".

I'm not really sure how to respond to your middle bit about people deep down having a mindset to preserve human life since that in of itself is another debate entirely. You don't really have any evidence to back up that claim at all.

You bring up children not being up to take care of themselves until a certain age. I'm guessing you brought this up to being support to your argument about animals being able to take care of themselves immediately. This simply isn't true because a lot of animals are pretty much completely reliant on their parents till a certain age and that includes dogs, Which I'm assume you were referring to since that's the only animal that I've referenced.

I brought up euthanization because it's a similar process to abortion and wanted tp draw the similarities to that and abortion. It was a bit of tangent but, I'm sure that the parallels I brought up weren't that hard to decode.

Adoption nor adoption is a perfect solution was what I was trying to get across. Neither solution is really perfect and the choice should be put up to the parent.
Debate Round No. 2
ShadowCorbin

Con

I may have made my point incorrectly, but I was acknowledging the fact microbes, weeds, and bugs are insignificant even though people devote their life to saving them. Where you were unsure of my "middle bit" about our mindset to preserve human life, I wasn't speaking solely of abortion, I meant everyone has that self preservation mind as instincts, we protect the human race. We try to protect other people above other animals, not just because we are special, but we are "us." Would you save a dogs life or another humans. See the world, we protect refugees, feed the hungry, protect the endangered, that is evidence enough. When you brought up Euthanasia we should have moved that to another debate because this is solely for abortion, but also Euthanasia is used to put someone/thing out of its misery. Abortion is a mothers choice to kill her child, two totally different things.

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Since you are just attacking my point and not establishing solid points of your own I am not going to bring up more points unless needed. I suggest bringing up your own points before the final round.
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by 2far4u2CharlesDarwin 3 years ago
2far4u2CharlesDarwin
This is all about necessity. I don't live in a 3rd world country where necessity is just. Really to consider a women to be put on a boat and come across the seas running for her life from the war with it's not about who is right it's all about who is left after it's all over, with a child under both arms and to see her toss both in the sea and save herself is what?
Necessity as it isn't Charles Darwin's natural selection of the fittest is it.
Posted by Fiasco 3 years ago
Fiasco
"If a woman does not want a fetus inside her she may use any means necessary to force it out just as she
would force an unwelcome visitor in her house."

That's where it is so very important to see if the fetus is a human or not! If it is, the mother has no right. It would be the same situation as a mother killing her unwanted 6-year-old, "just as she would force an unwanted visitor out of her house" ! Find out the answer to this essential question, and then - only then! - make your decisions.
Posted by 2far4u2CharlesDarwin 3 years ago
2far4u2CharlesDarwin
of course the fetus has rights, and yes a women has the right for it to be aborted, Just as I being a male have the right to wear a condom or a women has the right to take to pill or even have a vasectomy.

You people that live in an idealistic make believe world need your heads read within an UNBIASED SANDBOX WITHIN YOUR OWN BIAS MIND SETS.

A gift is a gift that should be justly passed onward as a gift. Ignorance feeds arrogance and arrogance feeds ignorance and an eye for an eye leaves us all blind.
Posted by missmedic 3 years ago
missmedic
The two main issues to tackle are:
1) does the fetus have rights, and
2) if so, does it also have the right to remain in the womb against the mothers wishes.
Even if a fetus did have rights, would it have the right to stay in its mothers womb against her wishes? The answer is no. There are no unchosen obligations or duties. If a woman does not want a fetus inside her she may use any means necessary to force it out just as she would force an unwelcome visitor in her house. Even if you invite a visitor in, you still have the right to ask him to leave.
Posted by 2far4u2CharlesDarwin 3 years ago
2far4u2CharlesDarwin
Also a man's sperm is in the millions and into the battle field it goes to find an egg that isn't there. Just like the parents that weren't there for there offspring. Is that a crime as much as abortion. Rejection and abandonment is cruel and to be humane, abstinence is impossible as an overdue sexual experience wet dream will prove that.

Who is a murderer the male's spent sperm or the females spent menstrual cycle? neither and the unborn child is wanted or unwanted and the pill or a condom is no different then an unwanted child.

Be humane and the children will be the same. It's a women's right to decide if an abortion is necessary.
I would like to live in an idealistic world, but I do not.
Posted by 2far4u2CharlesDarwin 3 years ago
2far4u2CharlesDarwin
I am a Male.
Men have no right to interfere in women's rights. Women have no right to interfere in men's rights.

Men are like dogs loyal and vicious. Women are like cats wild and possessive, and you don't own them they own you. Inspirer the wild within them and keep the photo album pictures anew. Love is unconditional and so is the ability to hate. To become humane is to be aware of the strengths and weakness within ourselves that reflect the past, present and future of the good and bad within us all because empathy is knowing what it's like in someone else's shoes by personal experience and sympathy is not really knowing but caring anyway. just like men don't have the baby, so women have a head start on love then men do.

Men are men that should put more time into there family then there job so don't live to work, work to live. Time is worth more then all the money, power and possessions. For the hope of time is all we have.

Peace be with you and all praise belongs to God
Posted by Fiasco 3 years ago
Fiasco
It all boils down to this: Is an embryo or fetus alive? And who has been trusted with such a decision?

We all agree that killing innocent humans is murder. To say that their life mightn't be as good as they'd like is no excuse! If the fetus is alive, it is human. If it is human, then it's the same human that it would be until it grows old and dies. If we deemed if morally OK to kill a living human being without their consent at this stage of their life, why not justify the same for the rest of their life? Murder is murder, no matter what the murderer believes! I can't just kill you and tell the judge, "I thought I was doing him a favor." They'd throw me into an insane asylum!

So tell me, if you can: Who made these life-or-death decisions?
Posted by missmedic 3 years ago
missmedic
Do men deserve a equal say on the abortion issue?
Posted by DeletedUser 3 years ago
DeletedUser
its a fetus not a baby
Posted by John_C_1812 3 years ago
John_C_1812
Abortion is not what is bad""".
Pregnancy abortion is the deception that is taking place to hide the admission of guilt regardless of the facts. That is what is bad. The lack of any response to the defense of the United States Constitution and woman in general with the introduction of Female specific amputation is bad.
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