The Instigator
bigwigaustin
Pro (for)
The Contender
izaaclord
Con (against)

Abortion is Murder

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Debate Round Forfeited
izaaclord has forfeited round #3.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/26/2017 Category: Politics
Updated: 11 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 1,275 times Debate No: 105317
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (50)
Votes (0)

 

bigwigaustin

Pro

In this debate, I am taking the stance of the Pro. I think that abortion should be classified as murder and should be illegal.
For the first round, simply post your stance on this issue.
For the second round, we'll state the facts for our arguments.
For the third round, we will counter each other.
Finally, in the fourth round, we will finish countering along with providing closing statements.
Please plan to be on, as my previous debate on this topic was forfeited.
Thank you and I look forward to our debate.
izaaclord

Con

Before I begin, I would like to thank the Pro for opening the debate and hope to keep this as professional and cordial as possible.

I will be accepting the Con stance, and I will break up my argument into three main points.

1. Abortion is not murder

2. A woman has the right to decide what she does with her body.

3. The "Pro-Life" movement is strictly religious, and as stated in the Constitution, church and state are meant to be separated, thus, abortion is not a matter of the United States Government.

With this I close my opening statement and hope to hear back soon from the Pro.
Debate Round No. 1
bigwigaustin

Pro

To begin, I would like to thank the Con for accepting this challenge.

I will also break my argument into three points as well, these points being:
1. Abortion is murder.
2. A woman does have the right to decide what she does with her body, but the baby inside the womb is not her body.
3. The Pro-Life movement is not strictly religious and easily can be assumed solely through a scientific viewpoint.

First off, abortion is murder. From the moment conception occurs, the zygote formed is a living, growing human being with full human genetic code. Most pro-choicers concede that the unborn children are actually human beings, but will deny that they are people deserving of human rights. They will proceed to list many different physical and/or mental characteristics that they claim "proves" that the human child in the womb does not deserve human rights. Some popular arguments among these are "it doesn't have a heartbeat", "it isn't sentient", and "it must be viable". While these arguments may look like intelligent facts at first, a closer look will reveal that they are nothing but propaganda. Living human beings without these requirements exist outside of the womb. People whose heart stopped can be put on life support and still live, people in comas wake up many times, and people on life support that would not be able to live without it can recover. No set time period can be placed on a child that would not also apply to a living being. Thus, if we would not kill a human being outside of the womb without these conditions, it is absolutely unacceptable to murder an unborn baby because of those reasons without it undeniably being called murder.

Second, a baby is not part of the mother's body. Sure, the mother can choose what she does with her own body, but she does not have the right to choose what happens to the other life growing inside her. That is another life. It doesn't matter that it is inside her; as long as it is a living human being, she does not have the right to kill it.

Finally, the Pro-life movement is not solely based on religion. While many people will join the Pro-life movement for religious reasons, there is a myriad of nonreligious people, such as athiests, that join the movement purely from scientific reasons. In fact, many Pro-life groups and organizations have been formed and founded by nonreligious people. Whether abortion is murder or not is not a religious argument, but a scientific and informed one.

With this final statement, I submit my initial arguments and l hope to hear from the Con soon.
izaaclord

Con

My apologies to the Pro for a late-ish response, I will now begin my argument supporting facts and resources.

I will address my issues again in three points, as this is the format we have been using.

1. Abortion is not murder. In fact, abortions occurring after 20 weeks are uncommon. According to U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data from 2012, a mere 1.3 percent of abortions took place at or after 21 weeks pregnant. Following the same study, 65.8 percent of abortions took place during the first eight weeks of pregnancy. At this point in time, the cells have yet to form into a fetus. According to Merriam-Webster's dictionary, zygote is defined as "a cell formed by the union of two gametes." At this point of the pregnancy, the zygote is merely a bundle of cells, not yet developed into any sort of creature. No organs, heartbeat, eyes, umbilical cord, etc. Why should something without a heartbeat come before the safety of someone who is already living? Regardless, late-term abortions are illegal for obvious reasons, but considering the tiny percentage they cover, such a point is useless.

2. As I stated in the previous point, a zygote is not a human. Or even a fetus, at this point. I feel as though that answers itself.

3. To assume the entire Pro-Life movement is religious is, obviously, false, and I apologize to the Pro if it seemed as though I meant such. However, 62% of Republicans believe abortion should be illegal in most or all cases. Of that 62%, only 23% are unaffiliated with religion. That being said, yes, it is largely a religious movement.

Sources:
http://www.merckmanuals.com...
http://reason.com...
http://www.pewresearch.org...
http://www.pewforum.org...

With that I close my argument and hope to hear from the Pro soon.
Debate Round No. 2
bigwigaustin

Pro

In this round, the Con and I will counter each other's arguments.

The Con stated that abortion is not murder, proceeding this statement by saying that abortions occurring on or after 21 weeks make up a low percentage of the total amount of abortions. The con then stated that the zygote that forms has "No organs, heartbeat, eyes, umbilical cord, etc.". The con is wrong in both his timeline and his reasoning here. The heart begins beating from the third to the fifth week. By the end of the third week, organs such as the liver, kidneys, and intestines begin to take shape, and by week 8, the eyes have formed. However, as I said before, it does not matter! People are able to live without a heartbeat on life support. People without a liver, kidneys, and/or intestines are also able to survive with professional help. And, quite obviously, you don't need eyes to live.

My opponent then asked "Why should something without a heartbeat come before the safety of someone who is already living?" My response to this question is simple: whether or not a heartbeat exists does not define life. In fact, a man lived for over a year with no heart intact.

The Con then stated, "Regardless, late-term abortions are illegal for obvious reasons, but considering the tiny percentage they cover, such a point is useless. " The point is absolutely not useless! Life matters. Just because it is a relatively small amount(still about 10,000 per year) does not make it OK. And, still, It is my contention that all abortions are equal to murder.

The Con also stated that "A zygote is not a human". The definition of Human Being is "a man, woman, or child of the species Homo sapiens". The zygote, regardless of its development, is always a member of the species Homo sapiens. No other definition would be able to apply to all born humans that could not also apply to an unborn baby.

I agree with the Con that the majority of people in the Pro-life movement are religious. However, this argument is invalid, as over 75% of the US population claims to be religious. The idea that these numbers should not also translate into the numbers of advocates for the Pro-life movement has absolutely no basis.

Sources:
https://www.babycenter.com...
https://www.cbsnews.com...
http://4.bp.blogspot.com...
http://www.pewforum.org...

With that I close my first countering period and hope to hear from the Con soon.
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 3
This round has not been posted yet.
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 4
50 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by bigwigaustin 11 months ago
bigwigaustin
The Con has less than two hours to post his/her third debate argument.
Posted by DawnBringerRiven 11 months ago
DawnBringerRiven
No, what makes this discussion pointless is your ignorance and beliefs that are completely rooted in opinion rather than rationality. I am not emotional on this subject at all. I'm a nihilist after all. If you think there's some misunderstanding that I have then point it out to me and I will happily discuss it. Being able to realize your mistakes is a necessity to a fulfilling life. If you can't properly defend your beliefs then how can you possibly say those beliefs are valid?
Posted by missmedic 11 months ago
missmedic
Your lack of understanding and knowledge makes this discussion pointless.
However you seem very emotional about the subject matter, perhaps a little research beforehand would increase your knowledge base............have a nice day
Posted by bigwigaustin 11 months ago
bigwigaustin
Exactly. Many options are available for pregnant mothers that do not want to raise a kid, such as adoption. Abortion should not be one of them.
Posted by DawnBringerRiven 11 months ago
DawnBringerRiven
Okay I butchered a sentence. Always leaving the possibility of adoption open*
Posted by DawnBringerRiven 11 months ago
DawnBringerRiven
@Austin Exactly. Medic assumes that all countries are the same and that statistics from other countries can apply to our U.S.A. That just doesn't match reality. Our country has the ability to uphold illegal abortion the right way. With proper sexual education from an early age, counseling, and always keeping putting the child up for adoption we can make it work. We can succeed where other countries have failed.
Posted by bigwigaustin 11 months ago
bigwigaustin
Education, and support and counseling would definitely help to reduce unwanted pregnancy rates. I'm all for that. The problem is what do we do with those that are pregnant? We decline abortions, provide professional help, and, yes, penalize those that intentionally try to kill or abort the baby or live a lifestyle that would obviously be detrimental to the baby's health. It's as simple as that.
Posted by DawnBringerRiven 11 months ago
DawnBringerRiven
Women dying from attempted illegal abortions is just natural selection doing god's work.
Posted by missmedic 11 months ago
missmedic
Your more interested in putting people in jail then fixing the problem.
"So no, making abortion illegal does NOT create more problems. At all. And as I have already said multiple times, it is very easy to avoid becoming pregnant in the first place."
Let me show why those two statements ARE WRONG...
Illegal abortion..................... http://www.independent.co.uk...
Who has the highest teen pregnancy rates? the USA............http://www.jahonline.org...(14)00387-5/fulltext
Education, free on demand birth control, support and counseling, these are some of the ways to reduce unwanted pregnancy not law enforcement.
Posted by DawnBringerRiven 11 months ago
DawnBringerRiven
Why do you keep pretending that women aren't accountable for their actions? If a woman breaks the law then they go to jail just like every other citizen. This is the country of equality we're talking about. Women are not special just like men aren't special. If abortion is made illegal no sane individual will risk their lives to perform a self abortion. No one is more afraid of birthing a child then death itself. So no, making abortion illegal does NOT create more problems. At all. And as I have already said multiple times, it is very easy to avoid becoming pregnant in the first place.
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