The Instigator
GCorpora
Pro (for)
Winning
4 Points
The Contender
brandongandarilla
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Abortion is the murder of an innocent child

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/17/2021 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 months ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 546 times Debate No: 127781
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (13)
Votes (1)

 

GCorpora

Pro

At the moment of conception (when sperm fertilizes an egg) a zygote is created, Which contains its own unique DNA, And immediately upon being created, The zygote initiates a program of development that will, If uninterrupted by accident, Disease, Or external intervention, Proceed seamlessly through formation of the definitive body, Birth, Childhood, Adolescence, Maturity, And aging, Ending with death. Therefore, Abortion is the murder of an innocent human being.
brandongandarilla

Con

The first thing I want to confirm is that we understand murder in the same way, As an immoral act, His DNA argument does not seem very good to me, Since an egg also has it, And such a being is not considered as a human, Of course This is also the potential to become an adult man / woman and relevant to us in determining your humanity.
Debate Round No. 1
GCorpora

Pro

I would propose a revision to your definition of murder: "The unjust taking of a life". I think that "an immoral act" is a bit too broad.

Yes, An egg cell contains DNA, As does a sperm cell, But when a sperm cell fertilizes an egg cell, A unique, Unrepeatable DNA is formed that is separate from both the mother and father. If that DNA was found at a crime scene, It would not match any other human beings DNA other than that baby.
brandongandarilla

Con

"I would propose a revision of your definition of murder:" The unjust murder of a life. "I think that" an immoral act "is too broad. "
I was not referring to the definition, I was referring to whether we both believe that it is an immoral act.

"Yes, An egg contains DNA, Just like a sperm, But when a sperm fertilizes an egg, A unique and unrepeatable DNA is formed that is separate from both the mother and the father. If that DNA were to be found at the scene of a crime, It would not match the DNA of any other human being other than that baby. "
The ovule also contains a unique DNA, Each organism works differently, Therefore each organism replicates its gametes in a different way, Even if it is in a tiny fraction, And almost impossible to measure, That ovule contains differences in its DNA from any other being alive, But as you see an egg is not a human, Therefore, Having a unique DNA is not a reason to consider it human.
Debate Round No. 2
GCorpora

Pro

I am not going to waste my time arguing about a scientific fact. No part of a humans body can be made up of a separate DNA than their own, Including an ovule. That is biologically impossible. Anyway, Let"s just say that it was possible so that we can make some progress in this discussion, And discuss when you believe life begins and why.
brandongandarilla

Con

"I am not going to waste time arguing about a scientific fact. No part of the human body can be made up of DNA other than yours, Including an egg. That is biologically impossible. "
It is not a scientific fact really, I will explain it to you, DNA contains atoms, If a single atom is different from others then the DNA is different, The ovule in question has even one atom of difference and therefore a different DNA from body itself, This is not a scientific issue, But rather a philosophical one, And it refers us to the old paradox of theseus.
"Anyway, Let's say it was possible for us to make some progress in this discussion, And discuss when you think life begins and why. "
life begins when there are cells, That is a scientific fact, But the important thing is when it begins when humanity.
Debate Round No. 3
GCorpora

Pro

Again, No part of a humans body can be made up of DNA that is not theirs. For instance, Going back to the crime scene example, If the "ovule in question" was found at a crime scene, It could only be tied to one human on the planet, As each persons DNA is completely unique.

"life begins when there are cells". I"m glad that you acknowledge that life begins when there are cells (aka the moment of conception). But seeing as a human cannot produce plant-life or another kind of animal-life, We know that the new life that has been created can only be human-life. Therefore, Because it is a human-life (a part of "humanity"), We know that killing it would be "an immoral act" because we have taken away the innocent baby"s most basic right, The right to life.
brandongandarilla

Con

"Again, No part of the human body can be made up of DNA other than theirs. For example, Going back to the crime scene example, If the 'egg in question' was found at the crime scene, It could only be be linked to a human on the planet, Since each person's DNA is completely unique. "
In the case of the crime scene, It is simply due to the fact that the difference is so small that there is no technology to measure it, The body's egg and DNA have a difference, Just like the body with any other part of the body, Simply the difference it is so small that it is not considered in cases such as crime scenes.

"life begins when there are cells. " "I'm glad you recognize that life begins when there are cells (aka the moment of conception. But since a human cannot produce plant or other animal life, We know that new life that has been created only it can be human life. Therefore, Because it is a human life (a part of "humanity"), We know that killing it would be "an immoral act" because we have taken away the most basic right from the innocent baby, The right to life. "
Error, The ovule contains a cell too, This cell is a gamete, And as it can produce human life, For that argument, The ovule would also be human, But the ovule is not a human, That is why its argument is flawed.
Debate Round No. 4
GCorpora

Pro

You refuted your own argument in saying that there is no technology to measure any difference in DNA in regards to the crime scene example. If there is no technology to measure any difference in DNA, How would you know that there is a difference?

Anyway, Let's just say that you were right for the sake of argument: The DNA was only a piece of the whole statement. You are using this whole DNA aspect as a red herring to take away from the rest of it: the fact that "immediately upon being created, The zygote initiates a program of development that will, If uninterrupted by accident, Disease, Or external intervention, Proceed seamlessly through formation of the definitive body, Birth, Childhood, Adolescence, Maturity, And aging, Ending with death. "

There is no error in regard to the ovule because the gamete cannot "If uninterrupted by accident, Disease, Or external intervention, Proceed seamlessly through formation of the definitive body, Birth, Childhood, Adolescence, Maturity, And aging, Ending with death. " The only way that this is possible is if the egg cell is fertilized by a sperm cell (which we know as the moment of conception, Or rather the beginning of life - a life that can only be human).
brandongandarilla

Con

"You refuted your own argument by saying that there is no technology to measure any difference in DNA from the crime scene example. If there is no technology to measure any difference in DNA, How would you know there is a difference? "
By laws of the atoms is that I know, They vary cyclically, They have constant cycles that destroy them that is why I know that there are different atoms in DNA.

"Anyway, Let's say you were right for the sake of the argument: DNA was only part of the full statement. You're using this whole aspect of DNA as a red herring to strip the rest of it: the fact that" immediately after being created, The zygote initiates a developmental program which, If uninterrupted by accident, Disease or external intervention, Continues smoothly through the formation of the definitive body, Birth, Childhood, Adolescence, Maturity and aging, Ending with death.

There is no error regarding the ovum because the gamete cannot "if not interrupted by accident, Disease or external intervention, Proceed smoothly through the formation of the definitive body, Birth, Childhood, Adolescence, Maturity and aging, Ending with death". The only way this is possible is if the egg is fertilized by a sperm (which we know as the moment of conception, Or rather the beginning of life, A life that can only be human). "
excellent we have advanced in the discourse, We went from taking into account the unique dna to putting it aside, However, I want to emphasize that at this point your definition is no longer scientific, At the moment you defined the humanity of something no longer I was applying a scientific definition, Since there is no scientific definition of what a human is, Let's move on to something else: the immorality of the act, The first weeks the child has no feeling or awareness of whether, Now tell me, It is certainly preferable Saving a person who does not suffer from brain death rather than saving a person who suffers from it, For the same reason, It is preferable to save a mother with a well-developed brain, Rather than a child who does not have it, And therefore, There are situations in which abortion is acceptable.
Debate Round No. 5
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by GCorpora 1 month ago
GCorpora
@naomidelgado

"Every woman or pregnant person has the right to decide. " What do they have the right to decide? The right to decide to murder their child?
Posted by naomidelgado 1 month ago
naomidelgado
Every woman or pregnant person has the right to decide. If they think they can't provide them a good life, Or just aren't prepared for a baby, Then just don't have it :D
Posted by GCorpora 2 months ago
GCorpora
@ermeza Perhaps it slipped by, But in my introductory post immediately refutes the "ovule problem". The zygote, Which is created as soon as the sperm cell fertilizes the egg cell, Immediately "initiates a program of development that will, If uninterrupted by accident, Disease, Or external intervention, Proceed seamlessly through formation of the definitive body, Birth, Childhood, Adolescence, Maturity, And aging, Ending with death. " This cannot be applied to an ovule.
Posted by ermeza 2 months ago
ermeza
Life begins when there are cells, And that is a scientific fact, But here the important thing is when it really begins the thing call "humanity". The ovule contains DNA and cells too, This group of "cell" is a well know as a "gamete", And can produce human life, For that argument the ovule would also be human, But the ovule IS NOT a human.
Posted by GCorpora 3 months ago
GCorpora
@missmedic What "use of force" are you suggesting that I am trying to justify?
Posted by missmedic 3 months ago
missmedic
GCorpora
Thank you for taking the time to answer the question.
As to the topic of this debate, "Abortion is the murder of an innocent child". You use disingenuous words like "murder and innocent child" to vilify so you can justify the use of force. That is a Christian tactic typically used on the gays.
I see a debate where you are trying to justify the use of force to remove a women's rights.
In your own words it is a "zygote" it is not a child and then a embryo and not a child and than fetus and not yet a child. A women's rights will always supersede the rights of her fetus.
Posted by GCorpora 3 months ago
GCorpora
@missmedic
Here are the answers to your questions that do not address the topic of this debate whatsoever

Q: What is the number one cause of abortion? (Or more directly: What is the number one cause of murdering babies? )
A: Finances (https://www. Guttmacher. Org/journals/psrh/2005/reasons-us-women-have-abortions-quantitative-and-qualitative-perspectives)

Q: Why don't women want their babies?
A: They don't want the general responsibility of raising a child, Nor the financial responsibility of raising a child.

Q: Why is it that pregnant women are so afraid to bring a baby into their own society?
A: There are a million reasons to worry about every aspect of life, But worrying doesn't justify murdering an innocent child.

Q: Why is there so little if any support for pregnant mothers?
A: Because most people in society do not want to support other people, But would rather have the government do it for them, Because most people in society are selfish. And since the government is inefficient in everything that it does, There is "little if any support for pregnant mothers".

Q: Why does birthing and raising a child cost much?
A: Birthing a child costs a lot because the healthcare industry is corrupt. Raising a child costs a lot because they cannot do things on their own. For example, Babies do not know how to use a toilet and wipe their own butt, So instead, Most people purchase disposable diapers (Which are expensive because they are a luxury. Reusable diapers require more work in terms of cleaning them, And therefore, They are much much cheaper. )
Posted by missmedic 3 months ago
missmedic
Nowhere in my statement did I suggest that abortion was "ok" But thanks for answering none of my questions and proving my point.
Posted by GCorpora 3 months ago
GCorpora
@missmedic Let's apply your logic to rape so you can see that it is not consistent:

"Rape is only a symptom of a much greater problem. Loneliness, Mental illness, Perversion, Etc. Let's allow rape to be illegal and work on the root causes instead. "

Obviously we should work on the root causes of things, But that does not make it okay to rape someone or kill a baby.
Posted by GCorpora 3 months ago
GCorpora
@DeletedUser Replace your word "abort" with kill, And remove the quotes around "baby", And then try to make the same argument. You fail to acknowledge these words for what they are.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Innocent 2 months ago
Innocent
GCorporabrandongandarillaTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: In looking at the ideas expressed both sides were rather infantile in their thoughts and responses HOWEVER the con side failed to provide anything other than a slight refutation to which the pro argument side countered and instead of getting a good rebuttal the con side simply persisted.

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