The Instigator
chrisl3
Con (against)
The Contender
Sinque
Pro (for)

Abortion

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chrisl3 has forfeited round #4.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/3/2017 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 751 times Debate No: 100536
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (11)
Votes (0)

 

chrisl3

Con

Pro= Pro choice
Con= Pro life

I would like to have a discussion on the morality of the topic of abortion, and also the legality of it. I personally find abortion a deeply troubling moral subject that we as a society need to come to a consensus about. I think Roe v. Wade was wrongfully decided. Not only on a moral standing, but on a legal standing to.
Sinque

Pro

I accept this debate.
Debate Round No. 1
chrisl3

Con

So for the first round I would like to frame what our beliefs are on this issue. So I have a few questions and I will give my answers to those questions also to give you a better understanding of where my beliefs are to. Then you can respond and state whatever you wish and ask me any questions you would like.

1. When do you believe the baby becomes a human? Conception? sometime in the womb? Or after it has left the mother?

2. Why do you believe this?

3. What situations do you believe the mother's rights supersede the babies rights?

My answers:
1. I believe the baby becomes a human being at conception.
2. I used to believe it was certain weeks along in the pregnancy, but the more you learn about how fast the baby develops the more I realized my beliefs were starting to crash with my morality. This point of when the baby becomes a human is probably the one point where my beliefs have the best chance of getting changed as I don't see to much evidence for either side when it comes to morality.
3. The only situation I see where the mothers rights supersede the babies is when the life of the mother is in danger.
Sinque

Pro

1. It doesn't matter when the baby becomes human...

2. ... because abortion is either killing or denying life to the baby.

3. I don't believe the baby, or anyone else, is entitled to life.

I would consider denying life is a lot worse than standard killing because it doesn't allow any consciousness in the first place.

Understand this: If abortion is illegal because it denies life, then condoms should be to. Under this logic, all types of birth control should be illegal.

Besides the choice to use birth control, there is a similar choice: the choice to try to reproduce. Making abortion illegal under the logic it is killing is very similar to not reproducing every second illegal because it is denying life.

And while not reproducing being illegal is beyond insane, abortion and other birth control types being illegal are insane as well. And more importantly, they have the same affects.
Debate Round No. 2
chrisl3

Con

Con believes that no one not even the baby is entitled to life. I would like everyone to take that statement into account for the rest of the argument. THe question of whether the baby is a human being is absolutely relevant. In fact it is THE question in the abortion argument. If it is a human being it is illegal to kill it because that would be homicide. If it is just another piece of flesh in the women's body you can do whatever you want its basically a kidney,

But lets go back to your no one is entitled to life. So under that logic murder should be legal in your mind? Because that is basically your argument. No one is entitled to life... That in itself is a dangerous statement. It is also a factually untrue statement in the United States. Definition of entitlement " a right to benefits specified especially by law or contract." Considering murder is against the law that is an entitlement.

Now lets tackle your claims that if abortion is illegal all forms of birth control should be illegal. I find this statement dangerous to. To conflate abortion with condoms is a highly suspect claim. The baby starts to become a separate entity when sperm meets egg. A condom prevents that from happening. Abortion is conducted after that process they are not the same.

Next statement was abortion is the same as choosing not to reproduce every second. That is just not the same morally or logically. Abortion is the killing of another human being that has already been created, and choosing not to reproduce is not creating another human being. Under your logic it would be morally correct to kill half the population because the world is overpopulated. Because there is not difference between killing a human and choosing to not reproduce.

You may not believe that we are entitled to "life" but under the law in the United States we as humans are "entitled" to not be murdered.
Sinque

Pro

You are the con ;)

What I meant by entitlement is a mix between 'the belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment' and 'the fact of having a right to something'. Anyway, onto my counterarguments.

Abortion is not the killing of a created human, because a fetus is not a created human being. It is still being crafted into a adult human.


Under my logic, it isn't morally correct to kill half the population because morales tell us killing is wrong.

In the United States, we are not entitled to not be murdered, or nobody would be murdered. We are entitled to the government trying to lock up the murder if we are known about and the government doesn't hate us.

Now my argument.

There is a difference between fact and opinion.

Fact is either true (the other definition of fact) or false (fiction).
Opinions are neither true or false but they are often backed up by fact or more accepted opinion.

Whether something exists or not (e.g. God) is the fact type.
All laws and morales are opinions and are not true or false. Right and wrong are opinions as well.

Of course most of the laws have reasonable evidence for them. Murder of born humans should be illegal because the possible victims don't want to be murdered. The fetus however is a fetus and cannot want to not be murdered. Abortion is a type of birth control and like the rest stops birth. The victim of all types of birth control are without a working brain that allows thought of any sort.


I, a human being, operate to not murder others because it is a bad survival ability and therefore a group that has the trait would be dead pretty quick. Because of that, I feel wrong murdering another human being that might not like it. Again, the fetus, the egg, and the possible future child will not not like it because they can't at this time.


I did not say not reproducing and birth control were the same. I said they were similar choices with the same affect. There is a spectrum between not reproducing and standard killing. What sets the line is that, as I have said above, the fetus, egg, possible future child etc. does not have thought or wants. That is what creates the line between okay by law and not.
Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by canis 1 year ago
canis
There is no moralety..You want it or not...
Posted by chrisl3 1 year ago
chrisl3
You know what. You are right. If you don't believe killing another human being is evil then I guess your right. lol
Posted by canis 1 year ago
canis
No. just what you want to be evil.
Posted by chrisl3 1 year ago
chrisl3
Morality is absolutely involved in the argument of abortion. The idea that you kill someone on the basis of whether you want it or not is the definition of evil. It is actually the same argument in favor of slavery. That person is on my property so therefore I own them. That baby is part of my body therefore I own its rights. That is the definition of evil.
Posted by canis 1 year ago
canis
There is no moralety..You want it or not...
Posted by chrisl3 1 year ago
chrisl3
That has nothing to do with my argument. Yes anyone can do anything. I could go up to someone and shoot them in the face and if no one saw law enforcement can't force me to self incriminate myself. Still doesn't mean it is legal to kill another human being or morally correct. No abortion is not a basic principle over the right to confession. Everyone has the right to remain silent. But we are talking about whether the act of aborting a child should be legal or ethically correct.
Posted by John_C_1812 1 year ago
John_C_1812
Pro-choice is looking for a witness account of basic principle and precedent to establish a form of control. Abortion is an argument by basic principle over the right to confession and is self-incriminating to a woman, or anyone else who using the term. This word has no self-regulation by offering an imperial view.

Miscarriage is a medical description of a body refusing to complete a task that has been placed upon it for several possible reasons.

Gender Specific Amputation it is a Constitutional impartial description for an abortion. It is a medical impartial description for treatments in a trauma relating to pregnancy and miscarriage. It is an impartial description made for privacy and Emergency Medical need.

The issue is a confession requires a justification of some kind as a defense to the crime being confessed by the one making the statement. A miscarriage can be staged yet does not describe the same confession in its title. A gender specific amputation can be a self-induced miscarriage, an abortion, a medical treatment in a constitutionally impartial description, or a witness account of someone who has no information or details of a person medical condition.

The United States Constitution does fires back.
Posted by chrisl3 1 year ago
chrisl3
I agree with everything you said outside of the rape argument. If your position is that the baby is a human being and has rights like I think is your opinion. Then the baby doesn't get less rights because it was conceived through rape. I think that point is objectionable. I feel horrible for what happened to the mother and the rapist should either go to jail forever or be killed. But I don't think it changes the morality of the argument of abortion. But again we agree on 98 percent of the cases, so yeah kind of pointless.
Posted by RC-9282 1 year ago
RC-9282
It would be useless for me to accept the debate. I personally agree with that. My biggest problem with abortion is its use as a contraceptive. That is immoral. There are plenty of ways besides abortion to avoid pregnancy. In the case of rape, I see it as a moral choice if the mother sees it fit.
Posted by chrisl3 1 year ago
chrisl3
I personally am a libertarian on most topics except the idea of abortion. I believe that the baby has human rights and it at some point becomes immoral to abort it. I think the idea that it is about womens choice and their bodies is deeply morally disturbing, and I have never heard an argument that doesn't contradict itself with alittle critical thinking.
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