The Instigator
avipacman7
Con (against)
The Contender
namdorf
Pro (for)

Abortion

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/10/2018 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 544 times Debate No: 118120
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
Votes (0)

 

avipacman7

Con

I'm against abortion. You probably can't change my mind, But I'm interested to see the other side's views.

My first point for debate: I believe it is wrong to take away another's life.
namdorf

Pro

I agree that it is wrong to take another person's life. That is murder, And absolutely reprehensible. Where you and I evidently differ is whether or not a foetus is a person.

Both the Oxford and Merriam-Webster dictionaries define person as an individual human being, Or a human with reference to individuality. On the definition of individual, They differ slightly, But the consensus is that individual means a distinctly separate entity, With defining characteristics.

It is my belief that, Beyond genes (which it shares partly with either parent anyway), A foetus has no defining characteristics. No individuality.

For example, I have friends. Likes. Dislikes. Relationships. Aspirations. Worries. Things that make me me. A foetus has none of these things.

P. S. I find it hypocritical to be pro-life and pro death penalty, Because of these definitions.
P. P. S. I don't like abortion. I just don't think it's murder or that it should be illegal. You'll find the vast majority of pro-choice people share these views. We aren't pro-abortion.
Debate Round No. 1
avipacman7

Con

First off, I never used the word "person. " I said "I believe it is wrong to take away another"s life. " Although maybe I should have used a little different wording and said "human life. " (yes, A fetus is human life. )
Secondly, Every fetus does have individuality. Otherwise, Every person would look and act just like everybody else which is obviously not the case.

I see your point that a fetus does not have likes, Dislikes, Relationships, Etc. Why does it not have these? Because it has not yet been born and able to experience these things in life beyond the womb. I don"t agree that the lack of characteristics such as likes and dislikes makes abortion ok, Because killing them before they are able to develop these characteristics is why they never get them.

I don"t find it hypocritical to be pro-life and pro-death penalty. Why? Because I believe humans that murder people, Commit treason, Take part in human trafficking, Etc. Deserve to be killed. I also believe that humans that have not murdered people, Not committed treason, Not trafficked humans, And not done any wrong (such as a fetus) don"t deserve to be killed.

I"m glad that you don"t like abortion (there is something we have in common haha). However, I do believe abortion is murder. Oxford Dictionary defines murder as "The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. " Of course you could argue that abortion is legal and therefore it is not "unlawful" as the definition says, But that is the entire point of my debate is to argue against abortion and I think it should be illegal so I am overlooking the use of that word. Abortion still is a "premeditated killing of one human being by another. "

Lastly, I am also pro-choice. I believe people can make any choice they want, That is until they make a choice that inhibits the freedoms and choice-making abilities of another human being. For example, I can choose whether to read a book or watch a movie. That choice doesn"t affect the agency of any other human being. However, I cannot choose to own a slave (I would never want to, This is just an example). Why? Because by choosing to own a slave, I would be taking away the choice-making ability of my slave. Another example: I could make the choice to murder someone (Again, I wouldn"t, Just another example). But this takes away the freedom of that person to live. Abortion, Taking away the life of the human being, Takes away their freedom to live. Slavery and murder are illegal, Why isn"t abortion?
namdorf

Pro

I understand that you didn't use 'person', But I find that 'person' is the better word to use. It's no "think of all those human beings" or "you lovely human beings".
I'm aware that a foetus is a human, And alive. It's just not a person.
Again, Foetus =/= person.

Yes, A foetus hasn't experienced these things. No, It doesn't make abortion 'okay'. It's just evidence to the contrary for abortion being murder, And therefore illegal. Yes, It's why they never get them. But hypothetical futures don't matter in the real world. I'm not treated as an 80 year old, And a foetus isn't treated as a person.

You can't say 'deserve'. That's subjective i. E. Your opinion. Opinions don't matter. Murdering someone because they've murdered someone is revenge, Not justice, And this is another debate entirely.

I'm fine with you believing abortion is murder. It's just objectively not. Given that Meriam-Webster doesn't have a separate definition for human being, The other will serve; "a man, Woman, Or child of the species Homo sapiens, Distinguished from other animals by superior mental development, Power of articulate speech, And upright stance. " It'd be safe to assume that 'man' and 'woman' refer to sex, But for the distinction 'child'. This suggests that a human being is an adult or child member of the human race. Given that a child is "a young human being below the age of puberty or below the legal age of majority", And age cannot be negative, A foetus is not a human being.

You aren't pro-choice. Remember, This is the English language. Not everything is literal. Unless you believe that a women should be allowed abortions, You are not pro-choice.

Some false equivalencies right there. A slave is a human being. A murder victim is a human being (or was). A foetus is not a human being. And banning the latter makes all three a violation of the right to bodily autonomy, Which is a good segue to my argument.

Under the laws of the U. S. A, And most western countries, Citizens have the civil (legal) right to bodily autonomy. This means that they have the final say in what happens to their body. This is why you have to consent to giving blood, And to being an organ. You can't just have them taken from you willy nilly. Banning abortion violates this right, Because women can no longer choose not to be pregnant.
But hold your horses, Because I'd imagine you have a couple of rebuttals.
Firstly, It doesn't violate the foetus's civil rights. A foetus has no civil rights. It's not a citizen of any country.
Secondly, 'the woman should've just chosen not to have sex' is stupid. Don't punish women for having sex.
Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by cello242 3 years ago
cello242
1. All human beings from conception to brain death are persons
2. A fetus is a human being living post conception and before brain death
3. A fetus is a person

There are no lines that can be drawn for person-hood besides conception that provide problems that exclude someone we would all regard as a person.
Posted by avipacman7 3 years ago
avipacman7
Dang! Didn't know the time to respond was so short! Sorry namdorf for cutting that short!
Posted by namdorf 3 years ago
namdorf
avipacman No. . . ?
Did I say that? Or did I say that they aren't living, In the connotative sense?
Posted by avipacman7 3 years ago
avipacman7
So namdorf, Is it ok to kill babies and coma patients too since they are not living?
Posted by namdorf 3 years ago
namdorf
John_C_1812 Depends on the context.
In the literal sense, Living is the present tense noun for something with life.
In the connotative sense, And in relation to this debate, Living is experiencing life. Neither a coma patient nor foetus nor baby is living, In that sense.
Posted by John_C_1812 3 years ago
John_C_1812
Is life the same as living?
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