The Instigator
rocinante
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
20cwells
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

America Should Transition to Democratic Socialism

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/13/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 533 times Debate No: 110678
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

rocinante

Pro

The format is simple. Prove to me and the debate.org audience that the United States of America shouldn't transition to democratic socialism using whatever method suits you. I guarantee you will lose this debate!
20cwells

Con

If you make a debate, the proof of burden is on you, OP
Debate Round No. 1
rocinante

Pro

In a democracy, the right of the people to govern themselves is preeminent.
20cwells

Con

I agree with you about the democracy part but when are you going to talk about the socialism aspect of the argument?
Debate Round No. 2
rocinante

Pro

That's the beginning and end of my argument. The socialism aspect is a posteriori the democratic. There really isn't anything else to argue.

1) Any argument for the case of democratic socialism that lays out a framework subordinates democratic pluralism to ideology.

2) Any argument against the case for democratic socialism based on a framework (i.e. capitalism, libertarianism, or any other ism) necessarily subordinates democratic pluralism to ideology.

I have my own thoughts on some services that I believe should be socialized and I believe that capitalism should be fettered by the right of the people to govern themselves (under the aegis slow and steady wins the race). However, my personal thoughts are subordinate to the right of the people to govern themselves.

Ergo, I win.
20cwells

Con

A comment made by leiferickson summed up my point:

How can OP claim to be supportive of empowering the people to govern themselves while simultaneously arguing for an ideology that requires heavy restrictions on people's ability to run businesses how they wish and place a heavy tax burden on them to be used for programs that not everyone in that society agrees with?

Democratic socialism is not democratic at all unless you just do what Hitler did and kill anyone who won't oblige to your policies. And not only is this itself morally wrong, but objectively destructive to society as it causes successful people who would keep the economy up with their businesses to flee and leave those who weren't planning to work in the first place as the only ones remaining.

And even if you expect that everyone will have the exact same view and continue working even when they don't have to, that still doesn't change the fact that government programs for things like education and healthcare are observably inefficient and rely on external competitive markets to subsidize them.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by rocinante 3 years ago
rocinante
"This is the power of the powerful to define, to structure, to say, "This is the way the world works." It's enormous power. Among the powers of the weak, I think the first one is the power not to believe the powerful" (Elizabeth Janeway, The Powers of the Weak).
Posted by rocinante 3 years ago
rocinante
@leiferikson: You added words to my argument that I didn't post. "Democratic socialism is not democratic at all unless you just do what Hitler." What you wrote about is nothing short of absurd.

All I argued in this debate is, "In a democracy, the right of the people to govern themselves is preeminent."

@20cwells responded, "I agree with you about the democracy part but when are you going to talk about the socialism aspect of the argument?"

My purpose of this debate was to trap stupid people who say stupid things all the stupid time. Case in point!
Posted by leiferikson 3 years ago
leiferikson
How can OP claim to be supportive of empowering the people to govern themselves while simultaneously arguing for an ideology that requires heavy restrictions on people's ability to run businesses how they wish and place a heavy tax burden on them to be used for programs that not everyone in that society agrees with?

Democratic socialism is not democratic at all unless you just do what Hitler did and kill anyone who won't oblige to your policies. And not only is this itself morally wrong, but objectively destructive to society as it causes successful people who would keep the economy up with their businesses to flee and leave those who weren't planning to work in the first place as the only ones remaining.

And even if you expect that everyone will have the exact same view and continue working even when they don't have to, that still doesn't change the fact that government programs for things like education and healthcare are observably inefficient and rely on external competitive markets to subsidize them.
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