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The Instigator
Pro (for)
Anonymous
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The Contender
BiggsBoonj
Con (against)
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American History Is Fiction, False & Propaganda To The Highest Degree

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/3/2019 Category: Education
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 710 times Debate No: 120588
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (16)
Votes (0)

 

Pro

The American (mis)education system needs a complete overhaul because it's full of lies, Half-truths and fiction. From discovery to holidays, Every aspect of our history is a huge pyramid scheme. I've been fortunate to travel abroad for many years and I've noticed that the foreigners of Academia view American history as a joke. "Why does a country, So proud of its wounds, Hides its scars? " From what I've learned throughout my studies is that we are the laughing stock of society because our dishonesty is so blatant. If anyone can deliver a solid case that proves otherwise, Then don't accept this debate. Illogical and ignorant comments will get you embarrassed.
BiggsBoonj

Con

Hi, I don't agree with you at all.
What foreigners have you met that consider American history as a joke? Or more specifically, What foreign historians have you met that consider American history a joke? Because I know many historians and none of them consider any country's history a joke. I also don't see foreign historians laughing at our education system/society (maybe because we are the most powerful country in the world? But that's irrelevant).

Could you present some examples of fiction, Lies, Or propaganda in American history? Because I don't notice how the US is proud of its wounds or hides its scars. How is our dishonesty blatant, And how is literally EVERY ASPECT of our history a pyramid scheme? I'm not arguing with you yet, I just want to see your points and arguments.
Debate Round No. 1

Pro

Hello, & thanks for the discussion. Well, I've travelled a lot, Especially during my time in the service and with my current job. Speaking with people from various countries like Spain, Nigeria, Israel, Great Brittan etc, They've schooled me on a lot of information that's being hidden in America's education system. I'll start out by saying that if you believe the majority of things that are written in our school's curriculum, Then you're definitely clueless on what authentic history truly is.

From the Constitution, To the Declaration of Independence, This country/government is one big scam of propaganda. Basic Examples: Our school curriculum teaches us that C. Columbus discovered America in which he did not. Thanksgiving is said to be the day pilgrims & Indians sat together and celebrated over a meal in which they didn't. The Big Bang theory is utter nonsense, And so-called Irish-slavery in America is complete B. S.

Yes, The dishonesty is blatant because it's being used as propaganda to brainwash the youth to make one racial group appear as if its better than the next group and that's a guaranteed fact. There are tons of basic and important information that never seem to get the time of day, And that's done on purpose. Nope, I'm not trying to turn this into a racist thing, But if you posses a logical mind state, Then you'd definitely see the inconsistencies on how the government/media portrays the races in America.
BiggsBoonj

Con

I want to remain civil, But you're saying complete nonsense. What information have foreigners taught you, Specifically, That's incorrect in American history? Are they qualified enough to make such claims? Are they historians or just clueless average people with a basic knowledge of history?

You claim that our country and our government is one big scam. A claim like that is just moronic. I'm not going to discuss it, As it's up to you to prove that. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

The Constitution and the Declaration of Independence aren't one big scam. How could they be, In what way? Do you mean that they don't exist? But they do, We have them today and they guarantee us basic human rights! Do you mean that they weren't actually signed? But they were, We have the original copies and the events were historically recorded! To make such outlandish claims, You would have to present extraordinary evidence. So far, You have presented zero.

Now for your basic examples. Even if they were all false, That doesn't make our government a scam and our whole history false. That's an insane assumption not supported by any evidence. But let's discuss your examples. Columbus didn't discover America, It's believed that the Vikings did, And Columbus never set foot in mainland America. But nobody hides that fact! When I went to school, I learned that Columbus didn't discover America. Nobody is hiding any evidence that Columbus didn't discover America, It's a well-known fact in the scientific community! Columbus is merely a symbol. Thanksgiving isn't considered to be historical fact, It's a myth used to promote a popular holiday. The Big Bang theory. . . Jesus Christ our holy saviour. The Big Bang theory isn't related to American history. It's a scientific fact. How stupid do you have to be to bring the Big Bang theory when discussing American history? The ignorance is astounding.

Nobody is trying to brainwash anybody. In the United States, All races are equal under the law and slavery is illegal, As well as discrimination. I don't know where you got the lie that our government brainwashes kids so they become racist. That is just insane stupidity and intellectual dishonesty. You said you're not trying to turn this into a racist thing, But you are.

Like I said, Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Your only evidence is some inconsistencies in historical events which nobody in the scientific community even genuinely believes! You build up strawmen and then claim the government and schools are racist with no evidence whatsoever. This whole debate shouldn't be happening. Assuming that all of American history is fiction and propaganda is moronic and plain retarded.
Debate Round No. 2

Pro

You say that you want to remain civil, But right off the bat, Names such as moronic/stupidity is coming out of your mouth. I never said that the Constitution and Declaration didn't exist. I said that that they're a scam because they're outdated, They've been ratified numerously and they were drafted/written/overseen by well-known racists. Yes, It's a fact that James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, G. Washington etc, Owned slaves, Which destroys moral credibility of these people. The Declaration is also a slap in the face of Black people. America proudly celebrates the Fourth of July, But blacks were still enslaved during that time. Did you know that Black soldiers fought in the war? Are you aware that those soldiers were thrown back into slavery? These two documents displays this country's hypocrisy perfectly.

So. . . They guarantee us basic human rights? Well, What was the point of the Civil Rights movement? By the way, The Civil Rights movement came many decades later. So. . . Why did the Constitution state that Black people were considered three-fifths human if it was all about guaranteeing basic human rights? . . . The famous quote of the Declaration states that "All Men Are Created Equal, " but just 30 lines below that statement it said that "the natives were merciless savages. " Is that not a contradiction? . . . You don't need (extraordinary evidence) if you have documented facts.

Your next misstep happened by saying that "if they were false, That doesn't make the gov. A scam. " Sound's like another contradiction to me. Emphatically saying something to a nation of people & not living by what was written is fraud. Is fraud not a scam? You said that "Vikings discovered America. " OK. . . So why does American history books emphatically state that Columbus discovered America? . . . Better yet, How can someone discover a land when people are already present on the land? If Thanksgiving isn't considered a historical fact, Then why is it pushed as a historical fact? Why celebrate it when thousands of natives were slaughtered on that day? As you can see, You have no logical argument.

Once again, American history books talks specifically about the Big Bang Theory. Does it not? You said that "all races are created equal under the law. " So. . . Explain to me why are so many (Innocent) Black males killed by white police? Are you aware that many of the cases were (Recorded), Which proves the innocence? The law still refuses to punish the officers for murder. How can an officer's word hold more weight than recorded video?

Everything you've said is full of lies and contradiction in which I proved with solid evidence? You backtracked on numerous occasions, And I still proved you wrong with documented evidence.
BiggsBoonj

Con

You're wrong. Nobody, And I say LITERALLY nobody hides any of the facts you presented. Yes, I knew that Washington and others owned slaves. And yes, I know blacks were still enslaved back then (though not all blacks were slaves and not all whites were free. The government was more citizens>slaves that white>black). Nobody is denying or hiding these facts! These are all well known historical facts which you could find out by simply going on Wikipedia. How is any of that hypocritic or false? It's a fact. You build up strawmen and use a few historical misconceptions (which aren't exclusive to America) to then claim that all of American history is fiction.

By the way, Blacks were never 3/5 human in the US. That was only decided for slaves, Not all black people. And no such thing was ever written in the constitution. You accuse Americans of twisting history and lying to spread propaganda yet you do the exact same thing! And it never says "The natives are merciless savages" in the Constitution either. Another lie. You accuse Americans of lying yet you do the exact same thing. Maybe you should go learn history yourself before you claim all of American history is false.

I'm not even going to get into the BLM crap. But let me tell you this: the law doesn't refuse to punish officers for murder. You are wrong. Policemen who murder citizens for no reason go to jail. You are wrong.

You claim to prove me wrong with documented evidence. Where is your evidence again, Exactly?
Debate Round No. 3

Pro

Ok. . . You say that "nobody hides the facts. " Let's take a closure look at Columbus. We were taught in school that he emphatically discovered America and that he was a great man. Our curriculum seems to leave out that he tortured and murdered slaves/natives. On top of that, He molested underage girls. How do I know this? . . . Columbus' fellow voyagers reported his atrocities when they made it back to Europe and he was jailed for it. Yes, It's documented in Spain's slave records. We surely didn't hear about these crimes in history class did we?

Thanks for admitting that Black people were slaves during the drafting of the Declaration so why would the Declaration/Constitution state that (All Men Are Created Equal)? Is that not a bold-face lie? Either way you try to spin it, That facts prove that it was not a misconception. You can't be mad at me for pointing it out.

Now. . . You just said that Blacks were never 3/5 human in the US. . . Sir, The 13th Amendment of the Constitution stated that provisions allowed southern states to count (Slaves) as three-fifth human. My question to use is "who were the (slaves) during this time in the south? Yet again, You put your foot in your mouth. . . You also said that it was never written, And I just proved that it was. How are you going to talk your way out of that nonsense at this point in time? . . . Nope, I did not say that the Constitution stated that natives were merciless savages. . . I said that the "Declaration" stated that the natives were merciless savages. Are you following me? Sir, The Constitution and Declaration are separate documents.

Who said anything about BLM? You said that policemen who murder citizens go to jail. OK. . . The police murder of Alton Sterling, Philando Castile, Walter Scott, Eric Harris, Tamir Rice etc all walked free. Just two days ago, The cops who killed Stephon Clark walked as well. Yes, These murders were caught on tape, But I guess "all men are created equal. " I'm pretty sure that if the shoe was on the other foot, You'd speak different, But that's just how you guys operate. . . My advice to you is to leave Wikipedia alone & study from legitimate sources. I don't blame you for your ignorance, I blame the American (mis)education system that lacked to actually teach you.
BiggsBoonj

Con

How ignorant are you? The 13th amendment ABOLISHED slavery in the entire United States. It didn't decide that slaves were 3/5 human, That was a Supreme Court case. For someone who claims that all aspects of American history are a huge pyramid scene, You have a very poor knowledge of history.

There is a huge difference between not being taught a fact and being taught a lie. In schools, Not all the facts are taught. For example, I never learned that Hitler was a drug addict and a vegetarian in school, But does that make German history false? Leaving out facts to only teach kids basic history isn't lying and propaganda. We aren't taught that Columbus was a bloody pedophile (which, I will not deny, He was) not because American history is propaganda but because schools only teach kids basic history. If you would go on Wikipedia or do any of your own research, You would see that such information isnt hidden. NOBODY DENIES THAT COLUMBUS WAS A MURDERER AND DIDN'T ACTUALLY DISCOVER AMERICA. All you do is build up strawmen and then accuse the US schoolsystem of propaganda because it doesn't teach all the facts.

I'm not going to get into the BLM narrative, As this discussion is about history. There is not a single law in the US anywhere which discriminates against African Americans. Every human IS created equal. Period. There is also no need to group me into "you guys" and say that I'm brainwashed by the US education system. That is classic ad hominem fallacy.
Debate Round No. 4
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by DeletedUser 3 years ago
DeletedUser
@BiggaBoonj Dude, Every aspect (in general0 has blatant lies whether it's the media, History, Science etc. Not every single thing. If you want another debate, Then you choose the topic because you failed miserably in the last one.
Posted by BiggsBoonj 3 years ago
BiggsBoonj
@mairj23 but you just said all of it wasn't a lie. . . Why are you lying?
Posted by DeletedUser 3 years ago
DeletedUser
Of course, It's a lie. From history all the way to the media.
Posted by BiggsBoonj 3 years ago
BiggsBoonj
You said, And I quote, "Every aspect of our history is a huge pyramid scheme". You are a liar, Sir.
Posted by DeletedUser 3 years ago
DeletedUser
Nope, This guy never said that "all American history is a lie. " I speak in general, You speak in absolutes. There's a huge difference among the two.
Posted by BiggsBoonj 3 years ago
BiggsBoonj
This guy uses a few misconceptions about history (Columbus discovered America, Thanksgiving) to say that all American history was a lie. What a joke.
Posted by screenjack 3 years ago
screenjack
I don't know about ya'll but I had the Declaration of Independence in pretty much every history book I owned throughout grade school. So how is our education system a lie or propaganda? How is that a proof?
Posted by DeletedUser 3 years ago
DeletedUser
squeakly54n6 I never said that American slavery, Native genocide or the Civil Rights movement wasn't taught so what are you talking about? Last time I checked, I haven't seen/heard anything about the hundreds of inventions by these people & neither have you.
Posted by squeakly54n6 3 years ago
squeakly54n6
@mairj23
" to make one racial group appear as if its better than the next group and that's a guaranteed fact. "
- Last time I checked, They taught about the genocide of Native Americans in school, American Slavery, And the civil rights movement.
Posted by BiggsBoonj 3 years ago
BiggsBoonj
@mairj23 post your argument!
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