The Instigator
Negotiate
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Nartnod7875
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Aquaman Deserve Some Respect

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/11/2018 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 517 times Debate No: 110534
Debate Rounds (3)
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Negotiate

Pro

This is a repost so I can give another chance to debate with anyone who's willing.

Thanks for considering the debate!

Expectations and setup is simple- three rounds ( acceptance/claim -> evidence/points -> conclusion), 8,000 characters, 24 hour reply, ten day voting period, and lastly, "select winner" voting.

Rules: No resources are off the table- just state your source and use quotes if using an article. Otherwise- no limits! Go crazy and/or creative with your resources, guys.
This is meant to be a more laid back debate so feel free to go wild.

Aquaman- the "gayest superhero of all time" they say- "weakest superhero of all time" they say- My claim: Show some respect! This bro's got a lot of advantages over his enemies- at least three of which I will address in the second round.

Good luck to my contender, and let's have an awesome debate! Looking forward to it.
Nartnod7875

Con

In the world of DC comics, there have indeed been speculations in regards to Aquaman's seemingly unimpressive image, powers, and persona. I mean you can't really blame new comic fans when you introduce them to this underwater hero. As you tell him who he is and give a little more insight on where he comes from, the person will begin to ask: " Can he control water?", where by you turn down his curiosity by saying "No, but he can talk to fish." "But he's called Aquaman." "...." and a frown of disappointment slowly forms on his face. Well, that wasn't how it was for me; I straight up chuckled and laughed more when I heard about his powers even further.

When the superhero Aquaman aka Arthur Curry was conceived in comic book literature during the 1940s, his original characterization and supernatural traits were something to be made fun of in the perspectives of later generations. According to classic comic book issues, Aquaman could breathe underwater and control fish and other marine organisms for up to a minute. This fragment of Aquaman's portrayal is already laughable. He's a very good swimmer. He communicates with them via language rather than telepathy as depicted in modern comics. He can only control them within 20 yards. His weakness is his need to be in touch with water at least once per HOUR. His lair was a wrecked fishing boat submerged underwater (not exactly your bat cave or fortress of solitude). Other than superhuman, strength, speed, senses( u know ,the qualifications for being a superhero), that was pretty much it. Judging by comparison, Aquaman's original characteristics were quite inferior to other DC superheroes like Batman, the Flash, Green Lantern,and Superman. The main reason being is that his powers are only proficient within certain circumstances; if there isn't any body of water, he's reduced to being the guy that helps beat up the goons.

Okay, NOW we go into post New 52, where Aquaman's creators and others finally turn him into a decent, formidable DC character. I'm not going to deny that Aquaman's current depiction isn't impressive or even cool. It IS. He's got powers that rival Poseidon and wields an awesome trident that DOES manipulate water and even summons lightning. Plus his home has been upgraded to the underwater kingdom of Atlantis in which he is the soveriegn ruler. But the issue of whether or not Aquaman deserves respect is a matter of reputation and logic.

Here's a thing to consider: hero's and mystical beings are only as great as their writers make them to be. Their creations are then presented to the world for judgement. And that also includes the character's influence on the audience. Let's face it everyone. The primary reason as to why Aquaman was created was to promote the reduction of pollution and the conservation of marine life. This is evident given the fact that they could have granted Aquaman the ability to control the physical properties of water, but chose not to because it wasnt the direction that they wanted to follow. As a contemporary fictional character, Aquaman is not very relevant or influential in our society. We live in a world where there is a giant garbage patch in the Pacific Ocean, all kinds of fish are being reeled in on a day to day basis, catastrophic oil spills kill fish and sea birds , and endangered marine animals are being hunted for sport. (This last paragraph is too sad, dont count this in my argument)
Debate Round No. 1
Negotiate

Pro

Before I start, I would like to have a couple questions answered-
1. Any chance you can clarify on your claim?
2. Could you provide sources to your points such as the origins of Aquaman in the 40's? This is for my curiosity more so than anything.

Now, there are a few points I would like to cover. In order to prevent confusion and keep us both on the same page, I will try to cover the Aquman from New Earth.
1. Aquman, is the rightful heir to the Throne of Atlantis- a continent founded on it's intense magical energies connected to the Darkworld, leading to the development of arguably the first homo-magi. Because of the development and learned manipulation of the energies, Atlanteans grew to become arguably the most prominent and advanced civilization in existence. Through the development into homo-magi, the Atlanteans have become adept in magic and are biologically adapted to the sea, following the Great Deluge. As for Aquaman, he has been known himself to get into magic- obtaining several powerful magical weapons and powers. (1)
(1) http://dc.wikia.com...

2. Aquaman may have water deprivation, however, his ability to physically adapt to the waters and land is significantly higher than any other Atlantean- giving him the ability to stay on land for longer periods of time. Besides water deprivation, no other weakness has been noted. (2)
(2) http://dc.wikia.com...(New_Earth)

3. Aquaman leads his people well- hence, the writers have chosen to give him great diplomatic abilities, able to represent and protect Poseidonis ( the capital city of the continent of Atlantis) and command people with great tactical skill. Also, due to how 70% of the Earth is water, than Aquaman technically rules over 70% of the world, being that he controls all sea life. (2)

4. The joke that "Aquaman can talk to fish" may be true, but it is also proven throughout the comics that he has telepathic abilities, period. "Aquaman is also an accomplished telepath in general and can perform such telepathic feats as mind to mind communication, mind probes, mental domination of a non-aquatic mind, and mental attacks. The potency of such mental domination is unclear but he has been seen to use his powers to great effect against the White Martians and Doctor Polaris." As for "20 yds." I have yet to see a source that claims this. (2)

5. While it is debatable how strong and fast Aquman truly is according to measurement, it has been shown over the years how his strength and speed are immense and powerful. Strength-wise: "Aquaman's superhuman strength allows him to lift a Blue Whale which can weigh in upwards of 400,000 pounds or 200 tons, strength sufficient enough to allow him to rip a tank apart with his bare hands." While speed-wise: "He can swim at over 10,000 feet per second underwater. It means he can swim to from New York to London in about a half an hour. We are not given sufficient information to know how long he can sustain such speeds. Above water, he should be able to clock a decent 60 to 80 mph on land in short burst due to his superhuman strength and stamina and should be capable of increased reaction times in terms of raw hand-to-hand fighting ability." Granted, this is a Quora answer- however, if you examine the answer entry, you will find actual evidence to her points through pictures of recent New 52 comics. It is also noted that Aquaman has indeed rivaled Superman's power and abilities. ( Yes, this is a moment I went out of New Earth.) (3)
(3) https://www.quora.com...

Sorry for being so late to respond. No real excuse, it's just been hectic for me lately. Looking forward to your Round 2 and we'll cya' soon! Have a good day.
Nartnod7875

Con

No problem with the delay. And thanks for wishing me a good day.

The clarification for my claim is as follows: In our mainstream media and pop culture, people have a very fixed perception on the character Aquaman. They see him as this blonde guy in an orange over green spandex suit swimming with colorful fish and dolphins. Their view of judgement was not made through comics or Aquaman's current depiction, but through comedic sources and mainstream media outlets. Just look out how shows like Robot Chicken and Family Guy mocked Aquaman over the years, leaving his fans outraged. People who DO know Aquaman's current image would know that he's nothing close to being a friendly, weak sea loving hero. But their input on how Aquaman gets represented in mainstream culture, which is where Aquaman needs respect, is not as influential as the sources mentioned earlier.

Sources: More Fun Comics #73 (November 1941) ,More Fun Comics #84 (October 1942). DC Comics

When it comes to discussing non fictional characters, there are some issues that can arise due to the constant changing of storylines and attributes of said characters made by writers and their successors. But in our debate, this problem of continuity and discontinuity does not really have a strong foothold, as we are arguing whether or not Aquaman deserves respect in culture and the media. We aren't debating on who beats who which IS the kind of debate that requires a specific/equal time period or "comic book age" to see which person wins (ex. matching up Aquaman and idk Namor but restricting them to fighting in only a specific comic book era like the Silver Age) . Our debate topic is focusing on one person only, therefore we can both draw points and ideas from more sources.

I can see that you went all out in trying to prove that Aquaman's modern representation is something to be reckoned with. Well, I'm not going to argue with you, there. In the comic book community, people have argued with effectiveness that the majority of Justice League members, including Aquaman can individually hold their own against the Avengers.

Aquaman is indeed a very cool DC superhero. But the reason why I think he doesn't deserve the people's full respect is because of the tremendous difference between his initial and present portrayal. Now, we all know that every Superhero has had their fair share of character upgrades over the past decades. Superman, for example, initially was only equipped with the ability of flight and human strength. It wasn't until new ideas and themes emerged that they gave him the power of heat vision and smothering nukes, sort of like a defiant response to the Soviet Union's arms race. In assessment, Superman's character development transitioned from being a decent superhero to being an even better superhero. This is undeniably not so for our hero in question, Aquaman. From his inception, Aquaman was a character that had so many flaws, gaps, and questionable features. Let's compare old Aquaman from new Aquaman, shall we?

Origins: In the 1940s, Aquaman was the son of an ocean biologist and a female Atlatean outcast. Mocking criticism caused for them to change his parents' identity entirely to the queen of Atlantis and an Atlantean wizard, thus giving him the birthright to the Atlantean throne.

Powers: Previously, Aquaman's powers were granted by his human scientist father. All he had was the ability to survive underwater and super strength. "The story must start with my father, a famous undersea explorer"if I spoke his name, you would recognize it. My mother died when I was a baby, and he turned to his work of solving the ocean's secrets. His greatest discovery was an ancient city, in the depths where no other diver had ever penetrated. My father believed it was the lost kingdom of Atlantis. He made himself a water-tight home in one of the palaces and lived there, studying the records and devices of the race's marvelous wisdom. From the books and records, he learned ways of teaching me to live under the ocean, drawing oxygen from the water and using all the power of the sea to make me wonderfully strong and swift." His later acquired traits was the power to speak to marine life through language, NOT telepathy. Again, after the feedback, the writers changed the communication to telepathy and added some additional powers.

Name: Previously, Aquaman's name was Arthur Curry. Now, his true name is Orin with Arthur Curry being the name given to him by his human adopter.

What makes all of this so funny is that Aquaman's creators had to almost completely change the character to make him more at level with other DC superheroes. From the backstory to his powers, there was at least something that they changed for each of Aquaman's components. The other Justice Leaguers didn't have their origins and storyline changed as much as Aquaman because they already had good characterization to begin with, a good character foundation to build off of.
Debate Round No. 2
Negotiate

Pro

I must say- this has been educational. You obviously know your material, I appreciate it! I'm not sure how to debate any further, however, as you have given me many different angles to the topic that don't seem to relate to the argument, providing a claim that seems conflicting compared to the argument and agreeing with my side of the argument. Nevertheless, you have taught me quite a few pieces of information I haven't known about, such as Aquaman's origins. Not to say that I don't appreciate or am ungrateful for the interesting perspective, ideas, and knowledge.

To conclude, I believe that Aquaman deserves respect for his powers- from diplomacy to strength and speed- to his throne, and lastly, his limited weaknesses. While these differ between different versions of the character, a variety of aspects remain the same- most of which I have mentioned. I agree with you on several points, such as how the image society has created for Aquaman has contributed to the disrespect.

Thank you for the debate! While it was most certainly not what I had expected, it brought a new and enjoyable perspective to the table- one I had not considered before. Hopefully you've enjoyed it as well, and good luck during voting!
Nartnod7875

Con

The same can be said here on this side. You did an exceptional job in advocating for Aquaman's respect. I appreciate how you are trying to give him more justice to his overall character.

As for my stance on the topic, my position has been ever so slightly changed by your points. I think that Aquaman is, in a weird way, a late bloomer who was taken advantage of and made fun by the media because he was different and not as powerful as his peers. I guess thats something that a lot of fans can relate to. But I'm still convinced that Aquaman doesn't deserve respect. Even when the new Aquaman movie comes out featuring that guy in the full beard with that poor excuse of a trident and people show respect, I still won't think he deserves it. His abilities are cool and all and hes reputable in some sort , but he's just not consistent with his image. There are just so many things about him that the writers keep messing around with,all the time. If they just started out right and went on from there, Aquaman could have obtained more fans and praise. But whats done is done, and the only way for him to get respect is when people start forgetting about him in the 40s.
Debate Round No. 3
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