The Instigator
MrMosin
Pro (for)
The Contender
ConserativeDemocrat
Con (against)

Are taxes theft?

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Debate Round Forfeited
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/30/2017 Category: Politics
Updated: 11 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 421 times Debate No: 104703
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (6)
Votes (0)

 

MrMosin

Pro

My argument that nonconsensual taxation by government is theft.

Con will be arguing that it is NOT THEFT. You must be fully against my stance. You cannot go with the idea it is "a necessary evil". You must push the idea that it is not theft.

Thanks in advance!
ConserativeDemocrat

Con


Theft is described as: "taking (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it"
Since taxes are legal, they aren't theft.

If you want to live in a country, you must pay "rent" into the country in order to live there. This is a legal obligation as a citizen or resident of a country. If you don't want to pay taxes, don't live in an area where taxes are required.

And it isn't like your tax dollars disappear into a black hole. You get stuff back for your dollars. Fire and police service, military protection, regulations of the environment, protection from anarchy and unrest, welfare, highways, access to land on which to build on etc.

And what kind of thief allows you a voice on what he spends your money? Because you can vote for politicians who match your opinion on where your money goes.

So, if you want to live in America, or any other country, you have legal duties you have to uphold. Such as taxes.


Debate Round No. 1
MrMosin

Pro

1) Appealing to definition is a fallacy, stay away from it. The connotation of theft for the common man is "taking something without consent, assuming it wasn't taken from you." I never consented to paying taxes except under duress. The duress is that men with guns will come to my house if I refuse to pay for services I do not use.

2) I do not use many of the services I pay for. For example, I have never used the public school system. Thus, the government has no right to take money from me to fund other people's educations.

3) I present a situation: A man demands you give money to him, if you don't you get put in a cell. You consent, and he buys you toothbrushes and toothpaste. He gives them to you and never bothers you again. Of course you benefit from having the hygiene items, yet you did not want them. Is this not theft?
ConserativeDemocrat

Con

2) Irrelevant. But you definitely do use other services, like the military.

3) Yes, that is theft. But that is not applicable to taxes. You have no legal responsibility/obligation to pay the man money. Nor are you using his land/services.

I assume you are American. If not, it doesn't matter. But if you want to live in a country, you have the legal obligation to pay taxes. If you don't want to pay taxes, don't live in a country where you pay taxes. You have the choice of moving to another place where you don't pay taxes. So it isn't theft.

I assume you have a house. That's built on land belonging to the country. If you want to use the land, you have to pay the government money, as it is under their jurisdiction.

Taxes are essentially rent. If you want to live in an apartment/country, you need to pay rent/taxes to the landlord/government. Unless you want to live somewhere for free...


Debate Round No. 2
MrMosin

Pro

2) I'm happy to pay for services I use such as roads. Doesn't mean that they have the right to charge for things that don't directly benefit me or that I don't disagree with.

3) Legal responsibility =/= moral responsibility. Then government has no right to impose tax upon me as I haven't consented to it. They can only rightfully charge me for what I use.

4) I bought my land in cash. Ergo, it is my land. I purchased it, I hold the deed. Thus, it is my land.
ConserativeDemocrat

Con

Pro's main point is 2.

Pro claims the government has no right to impose taxes on him. That is absurd. That's like living in an apartment and claiming the landlord has no right to collect rent from you.

If you want to live in a country, you need to pay taxes. It is your duty, responsibility, and requirement as a resident of a country. If you don't want to pay taxes, don't live in a country where you have to pay taxes.

Here's another example. Imagine a country is a store. If you wish to enter and stay in the store, you need to follow the rules. Otherwise, you will be escorted out. One of the rules of the store known as America is to pay taxes.

And once again, what kind of theft allows the victim to choose what the thief spends money on? And what kind of thief gives money back to the person who pays it?
Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Roganjoesloan 10 months ago
Roganjoesloan
I believe that it was nonsensual taxes are theft, not stuff we need like a military but stuff we don't need In the immortal words of Abraham Lincoln the government should only do what man can't do better for himself
Posted by ConserativeDemocrat 10 months ago
ConserativeDemocrat
@mcmjuly

How do you expect to pay for things like schools, a military, roads, social programs, regulatory industries, national parks etc. without taxes? It has to be coercive.
If you don't like paying taxes, then move.
Posted by mcmjuly 10 months ago
mcmjuly
The guy who is saying you pay taxes as "rent" to the government ....Give Me A Break. Paying rent to someone for use of their property would denote that the person you are paying actually owns the property. Where did our government get this land they call the USA? They certainly didn't obtain this land in any way that was moral or ethical. Coercive Taxation is Theft. If you must have government, it should never be coercive....that's how you end up incarcerating 2 million of your citizens, many of whom never hurt anyone.
Posted by What50 11 months ago
What50
1) "Appealing to definition is a fallacy, stay away from it. The connotation of theft for the common man is "taking something without consent, assuming it wasn't taken from you." I never consented to paying taxes except under duress. The duress is that men with guns will come to my house if I refuse to pay for services I do not use."
Yet you use are appealing to that definition so aren't you making a fallacy?? You should of posted definitions round 1 and made Con have to agree to that definition.
Posted by Roganjoesloan 11 months ago
Roganjoesloan
america was founded as a tax-free nation only taking when wars and other desperate times look it up.
Posted by DustinSmith 11 months ago
DustinSmith
I look at it like this we need taxes otherwise we can't have roads, we can't have sewage services, we can't have mail, we can't have police, we can't have fire departments, and most importantly we can't have water plants to make sure our water is safe to drink. Taxes is what keeps these services a float.
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